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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1240 on: September 01, 2019, 09:26:07 am »
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Offline BuRP

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1241 on: September 02, 2019, 11:55:35 am »
Yeah, I also think that a pricepoint of approaching R100K would be fair - and again, this would be the full-power version, not a nanny bike for European (insurance?) conditions.
Pricewise it would sit correct when compared to what else is out there.
Currently it represents half of a Fireblade SP... people won't flock to their dealers for such.
I bet it would sell quite well if the price would be adjusted, I would even be tempted to buy one.

As a spinoff of higher sales volumes the accessory market would be better then too as I can see such a bike being transformed into going-remote rovers.
Indeed one of the first things then would be a larger tank, in doing so discarding the costly titanium part.... still am wondering why this was done btw, such a noble metal for an item which will be replaced by plastic in a heartbeat.
Also, for such applications the meagre 1000km service interval would not be such a pain as those owners tend to be handier in the spannering department, for they simply need to be able to help themselves out there - and, once established in the market someone may even offer some gadget to increase the oil quantity carried by the engine?
Who'll know...

But, I think all this won't happen for the price is internationally set, and adjusting it down would be loosing face too much  ;)
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1242 on: September 02, 2019, 02:41:49 pm »
Yeah, I also think that a pricepoint of approaching R100K would be fair - and again, this would be the full-power version, not a nanny bike for European (insurance?) conditions.
Pricewise it would sit correct when compared to what else is out there.
Currently it represents half of a Fireblade SP... people won't flock to their dealers for such.
I bet it would sell quite well if the price would be adjusted, I would even be tempted to buy one.

As a spinoff of higher sales volumes the accessory market would be better then too as I can see such a bike being transformed into going-remote rovers.
Indeed one of the first things then would be a larger tank, in doing so discarding the costly titanium part.... still am wondering why this was done btw, such a noble metal for an item which will be replaced by plastic in a heartbeat.
Also, for such applications the meagre 1000km service interval would not be such a pain as those owners tend to be handier in the spannering department, for they simply need to be able to help themselves out there - and, once established in the market someone may even offer some gadget to increase the oil quantity carried by the engine?
Who'll know...

But, I think all this won't happen for the price is internationally set, and adjusting it down would be loosing face too much  ;)
Apparently titanium is cheaper to manufacture than a plastic tank go figure
Little by little, one travels far

J.R.R Tolkien
Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1243 on: September 02, 2019, 08:18:09 pm »
Yeah, I also think that a pricepoint of approaching R100K would be fair - and again, this would be the full-power version, not a nanny bike for European (insurance?) conditions.
Pricewise it would sit correct when compared to what else is out there.
Currently it represents half of a Fireblade SP... people won't flock to their dealers for such.
I bet it would sell quite well if the price would be adjusted, I would even be tempted to buy one.

As a spinoff of higher sales volumes the accessory market would be better then too as I can see such a bike being transformed into going-remote rovers.
Indeed one of the first things then would be a larger tank, in doing so discarding the costly titanium part.... still am wondering why this was done btw, such a noble metal for an item which will be replaced by plastic in a heartbeat.
Also, for such applications the meagre 1000km service interval would not be such a pain as those owners tend to be handier in the spannering department, for they simply need to be able to help themselves out there - and, once established in the market someone may even offer some gadget to increase the oil quantity carried by the engine?
Who'll know...

But, I think all this won't happen for the price is internationally set, and adjusting it down would be loosing face too much  ;)


"Curently it represents half of a Fireblade SP" . What do you mean?
 

Offline dirtWarp

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1244 on: September 02, 2019, 09:45:46 pm »
Yeah, I also think that a pricepoint of approaching R100K would be fair - and again, this would be the full-power version, not a nanny bike for European (insurance?) conditions.
Pricewise it would sit correct when compared to what else is out there.
Currently it represents half of a Fireblade SP... people won't flock to their dealers for such.
I bet it would sell quite well if the price would be adjusted, I would even be tempted to buy one.

As a spinoff of higher sales volumes the accessory market would be better then too as I can see such a bike being transformed into going-remote rovers.
Indeed one of the first things then would be a larger tank, in doing so discarding the costly titanium part.... still am wondering why this was done btw, such a noble metal for an item which will be replaced by plastic in a heartbeat.
Also, for such applications the meagre 1000km service interval would not be such a pain as those owners tend to be handier in the spannering department, for they simply need to be able to help themselves out there - and, once established in the market someone may even offer some gadget to increase the oil quantity carried by the engine?
Who'll know...

But, I think all this won't happen for the price is internationally set, and adjusting it down would be loosing face too much  ;)

It's limited in power as it opens Honda up to a whole other market.

35kw max means that teenagers can legally ride a 450L in EU.

In ZA, we have the 125cc limit.

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« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 07:59:15 am by dirtWarp »
 

Offline BuRP

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1245 on: September 04, 2019, 10:47:03 am »
"Curently it represents half of a Fireblade SP" . What do you mean?

Danie,
the SP Blade is their top superbike offering in form of a fully potent four-cylinder packed with every modern electronic gizmo including an electronic damper, proper Ohlins and Brembo goodies etc, which, even when compared to the 'others', represents decent value for one's money. Compared to such a simple - modern yes - single with almost none of those bragging points should cost substantially less (take the 250L as a good example), and I find half of that pricepoint out of proportion.


dirtWarp,
Europe has an 'entry level' class for limited-power bikes, for those with a newly acquired license (as from 17 or 18 y/o and older) on which they have to ride for some time before they progress to unrestricted bikes, 2 years or something like that. That's a good thing for it forces newbies to gain experience on a smaller bike instead of 'learning' on a 1000 super like some actually do here, very dangerous.
However, in some countries one may as from 15 or 16 y/o ride a limited-speed 50cc moped/scooter, sometimes even with no helmet needed, and no passengers are allowed until you're 18 y/o. I think this is a good idea (not the no-helmet bit) for it gives youngsters a fair chance to learn to ride in what typically is busy traffic, with moderate speeds. In SA one may get a 125cc, which is too quick (100+ km/h) to learn on according to me. This limit has effectively killed off the small class of bikes here, a pity for it is a safer way to learn.
A 'full' bike license may only be obtained as from age 21 to 24 however on certain conditions only.
Europe has a rather complex licensing system, read here for an attempted summary... https://www.autoevolution.com/news/motorcycle-licensing-in-europe-explained-90006.html


The 450L as on offer in Eu & here is a 25Hp (18.6Kw) version instead of the 41.6Hp (31 Kw) full power type as sold in the US.
That limit may have valid reasons in Eu (cheaper insurance possibly) but not in SA, and that is one of the reasons why SA should get the real thing.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 01:45:54 pm by BuRP »
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Offline teebag

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1246 on: September 04, 2019, 10:52:07 am »
To most international companies Africa falls under Europe in the EMEA grouping, we are not a big enough market to warrant special treatment. Note Australia also gets the low HP version, but that is a licensing LAMS issue, and I read bikes sold there come with the option to upgrade the power.
 

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1247 on: September 04, 2019, 06:45:56 pm »
"Curently it represents half of a Fireblade SP" . What do you mean?

Danie,
the SP Blade is their top superbike offering in form of a fully potent four-cylinder packed with every modern electronic gizmo including an electronic damper, proper Ohlins and Brembo goodies etc, which, even when compared to the 'others', represents decent value for one's money. Compared to such a simple - modern yes - single with almost none of those bragging points should cost substantially less (take the 250L as a good example), and I find half of that pricepoint out of proportion.


dirtWarp,
Europe has an 'entry level' class for limited-power bikes, for those with a newly acquired license (as from 17 or 18 y/o and older) on which they have to ride for some time before they progress to unrestricted bikes, 2 years or something like that. That's a good thing for it forces newbies to gain experience on a smaller bike instead of 'learning' on a 1000 super like some actually do here, very dangerous.
However, in some countries one may as from 15 or 16 y/o ride a limited-speed 50cc moped/scooter, sometimes even with no helmet needed, and no passengers are allowed until you're 18 y/o. I think this is a good idea (not the no-helmet bit) for it gives youngsters a fair chance to learn to ride in what typically is busy traffic, with moderate speeds. In SA one may get a 125cc, which is too quick (100+ km/h) to learn on according to me. This limit has effectively killed off the small class of bikes here, a pity for it is a safer way to learn.
A 'full' bike license may only be obtained as from age 21 to 24 however on certain conditions only.
Europe has a rather complex licensing system, read here for an attempted summary... https://www.autoevolution.com/news/motorcycle-licensing-in-europe-explained-90006.html


The 450L as on offer in Eu & here is a 25Hp (18.6Kw) version instead of the 41.6Hp (31 Kw) full power type as sold in the US.
That limit may have valid reasons in Eu (cheaper insurance possibly) but not in SA, and that is one of the reasons why SA should get the real thing.
Interesting that the max is still below 42hp. The R makes North of 60hp

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1248 on: September 18, 2019, 01:44:45 am »
I'm not sure how well Honda are doing with their 450 sales here in QLD Australia. I've just walked through my waiting room where the channel 7 TV advert was specifically for a special deal on the 450 with around $2500 dollars (that's R25,000) off the retail price plus some other freebie throw-ins,. It's not competing in price against the KTM's which pay a luxury import tax making them a big step up but most of the bikes I see on the back of bakkies here are KTM's. They are willing to pay a premium for the real thing.  The DRZ400 is largely the preserve of the dope smoking hippy adventurers I've found out but it is still a dirt cheap competitor.
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Offline BuRP

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1249 on: September 18, 2019, 11:44:58 am »
They are willing to pay a premium for the real thing.

Oi oi oi ozzie Ian, that's a big statement to make - but I can see your point with WP Xplor forks, Brembo kit etc found abound.
Less R25K eh?
Should make a serious difference in sales numbers I reckon.
Well now, let's wait what will happen here, because I bet such comes from above  ;)


Btw, what do you mean with 'Katooms are luxury imports'.... because a Honda is exactly the same in this respect?  :o
Should be taxed same!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 11:46:03 am by BuRP »
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1250 on: September 18, 2019, 11:54:10 am »
I did some price comparisons when I was in NZ recently:

CRF450L here = R125k in NZ R157k
CRF250 Rally here = R85k in NZ R81k
CRF1000l here = R185k in NZ R215k
KTM 690 enduro here = R153 in  NZ R176k

Not sure why the Rally is actually cheaper there, maybe a tax on engine over a certain capacity
 

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1251 on: September 18, 2019, 12:02:55 pm »


Quote from: BuRP on Today at 11:44:58 am

>Btw, what do you mean with 'Katooms are luxury imports'.... because a Honda is exactly the same in this respect?  :o
Should be taxed same!

Imports into Australia from some ASEAN (in other words Asian...) Countries have little/way less/no duty, as compared to say imports from Austria.
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #1252 on: September 18, 2019, 12:46:02 pm »
Imports into Australia from some ASEAN (in other words Asian...) Countries have little/way less/no duty, as compared to say imports from Austria.

Interesting, thanks.

No idea how that works though, because of the 10 member countries of ASEAN neither Oz nor Japan is listed.
If India is also part of this (?) then I foresee a KTM-India popping up soon, for the current taxation difference somehow smacks to unfair competition to me.
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