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Offline Rexc-w

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #140 on: May 25, 2018, 09:01:02 am »
This bike sounds great but in a world were more and more people can only afford one bike, the WR250R and CRF250L actually do an excellent job of being the commercial tool and play thing, primary reason being that they have real world service intervals, are suitable for commuting and can still play.

In my mind, the 'L' in this bike simply means it's street legal, not necessarily street intended. It's an exercise for the American market of making an existing model street legal, so nothing new per se. The lack of an ABS option also shows clear intent because in most European countries, I think this is mandatory for road going bikes.

What I personally would have liked to see is a 450 with a robust engine (read long service intervals), broader flat seat like the L, an ABS as optional and a larger fuel tank....

This is not a complaint, it's just not closing the gap that the 650 class dual sports filled....at least not in my mind.

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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #141 on: May 25, 2018, 09:36:09 am »
Agreed - doubt we will see it here

Evidently confirmed for release in SA - PD's have received a press release.
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #142 on: May 25, 2018, 09:37:14 am »
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #143 on: May 25, 2018, 09:50:01 am »
I read 1.8 quart oil capacity that is a lot, same as a 250L and DRZ at around 1.7L so service intervals will be way more than 1000km. KTM 500 takes 1.2L.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 09:50:27 am by sidetrack »
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Offline gser

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #144 on: May 25, 2018, 09:51:58 am »
  . . . .I'll wait for the CRF450 "L" Rally ..
 

Offline Fransw

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #145 on: May 25, 2018, 09:54:27 am »
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #146 on: May 25, 2018, 09:57:22 am »
  . . . .I'll wait for the CRF450 "L" Rally ..

Presuming they will make one - we just speculating on that at this stage. ::)
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Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #147 on: May 25, 2018, 10:12:16 am »
I read 1.8 quart oil capacity that is a lot, same as a 250L and DRZ at around 1.7L so service intervals will be way more than 1000km. KTM 500 takes 1.2L.

KTM500 takes 1.5 - 1.6l and has 15 hour official oil change interval. KTM 690 takes 1.7L and has 10k km oil change interval. Which quite frankly with my usage of 690 I will never do - I change oil in mine at about 5k km oar after every major trip.

Which brings me back to the point I've made already. First of all, I think some of not most of the published information is bullshit. I'm pretty sure that this bike doesn't have 18KW (if it does, it is dead straight away even with million km oil change), and I suspect that 1000 km oil interval info has a missing 0 in it (otherwise the comment about long service intervals in the same sentence is Monty Python sketch). But even if it does, it is directional at best. As I said KTM 500 can survive 2000 - 3000 km oil changes if used like dual sport no problem. At the same time I would never wait to recommended 10k km oil change on 690 if used properly off (even just for off trips - not racing). So even if this Honda has 10k km oil and filter change (like WR250R which has oil only at 5k), I think it would be smart move to change the oil more often if used properly. Exactly as people do with WR250R if they use it off, which they do because otherwise it is pointless to own it - with its top notch components and high price it is an equivalent of this 450, not the dumbed down cheap component and price 250L.


But even if the interval is 10k and it has 45HP, this bike IMO is not replacement for those no frills down to earth 650s like XR/DR, old XT, but rather a competitor to 500 which is very specialized and fringe market. Just looking on suspension it is clearly going to be expensive (ligthly less than whatever the 500 price will be at the moment) and it is too lightweight and high strung (assuming it has more than 18kw) to be comfortable/suitable enought for the standard Loskop/Cederberg trip.

Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #148 on: May 25, 2018, 10:14:13 am »
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

Offline jaybiker

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #149 on: May 25, 2018, 10:22:16 am »
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #150 on: May 25, 2018, 10:25:55 am »
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\
Well pretty sure Honda did not think about the Wilddogs when designing this bike  :deal: Plated dual sports are big business in the US up to now mostly people had to build their own sans the KTM 500 / 350. They have 1000's of kilometers of trails to ride where a heavy bike just wont do. The tank will be no good and swapped out first. Not sure why they made it from titanium, surely more expensive and maybe heavier than  plastic ?
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http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline DavidMorrisXp

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #151 on: May 25, 2018, 10:30:57 am »
It is a step in the right direction with the decline of the 650 class in favour of 200kg plus bikes, I am looking forward to seeing the new 6 speed mode here in SAl
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #152 on: May 25, 2018, 10:35:23 am »
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\
Well pretty sure Honda did not think about the Wilddogs when designing this bike  :deal: Plated dual sports are big business in the US up to now mostly people had to build their own sans the KTM 500 / 350. They have 1000's of kilometers of trails to ride where a heavy bike just wont do. The tank will be no good and swapped out first. Not sure why they made it from titanium, surely more expensive and maybe heavier than  plastic ?

The Titanium tanks are off the shelf due to being used on their MX bikes etc - weight saving and pressed out at the Honda cooking pot factory.  ;D  Will be good for drinking water  8). They clearly did not think that through properly. Honda is big in USA - look at Baja dominance for example.
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Offline Dux

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #153 on: May 25, 2018, 10:41:13 am »
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\

The SA market is a drop in the ocean , we do not feature at all in Honda's or any other factory's planning , but the American market as Sidetrack has already stated is enormous and this will be perfect for them . Who knows about the tank size , maybe the bike is capable of 20 to 25 km per litre , then we have a range of 150 to 200 km and that will be adequate for its application .
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #154 on: May 25, 2018, 10:43:16 am »
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\

The SA market is a drop in the ocean , we do not feature at all in Honda's or any other factory's planning , but the American market as Sidetrack has already stated is enormous and this will be perfect for them . Who knows about the tank size , maybe the bike is capable of 20 to 25 km per litre , then we have a range of 150 to 200 km and that will be adequate for its application .
450X we managed 25km/l and that was with the FCR carb. I still believe a well setup carb is just as fuel efficient as injection.
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http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #155 on: May 25, 2018, 10:48:01 am »
Come on - the tank size is a non issue. 500 comes with about the same size tank. We all know that before we sneeze Acerbis, IMS and Safari Tanks will have bigger alternatives available - especially because this is Honda, which makes it potentially big seller in US.

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #156 on: May 25, 2018, 11:26:25 am »
Come on - the tank size is a non issue. 500 comes with about the same size tank. We all know that before we sneeze Acerbis, IMS and Safari Tanks will have bigger alternatives available - especially because this is Honda, which makes it potentially big seller in US.

Exactly - working on it as we speak. :thumleft:
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Offline Fransw

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #157 on: May 25, 2018, 12:07:15 pm »
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!
 

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #158 on: May 25, 2018, 12:16:42 pm »
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!

I call bullshit. Yes they been working 5 years on the R iteration of the X. Some proud Honda suit got an extra geisha for dinner for dreaming up this re-purposing (while in another part of the factory the developer of the CFR100L front forks was committing harikiri for his failure).  :imaposer:
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Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #159 on: May 25, 2018, 12:21:34 pm »
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!

Well, leaving aside that plated enduro is the best for me (and other probably 3 people), my point still stands. Sure it will have less HP than 500 (Honda always does it on the pretext of extended reliability and durability), but it will probably be relatively speaking close. Not sure where your comment about impressing WD comes from  - I generally don't get where this WD self-flaggelation streak manifested by many here comes from - if you think WDs are weirdos, why hang around?

But it looks to me that you threw it in as smoke screen to cover fact that you run out of argument as  you didn't address the key point I raised there to support my - admitedly speculative (as is everybody else's on this thread) argument. Top notch components and resulting high price. Unless that price (and top notch suspension which will necessisate it) is fake news, explain how high price of the bike will help manufacturer move units?

And BTW - I'm not advocating or dissing this bike (though it looks promising from my limited POV), just interpreting the data that has been presented in front of us. Unless that data is horribly incorrect (or actually correct in case of HP), this is not replacement of old school 650s, neither it is bigger brother to 250L. Which is both good and bad - depending on your POV.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 12:23:08 pm by Xpat »