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Offline Fransw

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #160 on: May 25, 2018, 12:23:20 pm »
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!

I call bullshit. Yes they been working 5 years on the R iteration of the X. Some proud Honda suit got an extra geisha for dinner for dreaming up this re-purposing (while in another part of the factory the developer of the CFR100L front forks was committing harikiri for his failure).  :imaposer:

 :lol8: Yes, most probably! I'm looking forward to test this!..
 

Offline Fransw

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #161 on: May 25, 2018, 12:28:46 pm »
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!

Well, leaving aside that plated enduro is the best for me (and other probably 3 people), my point still stands. Sure it will have less HP than 500 (Honda always does it on the pretext of extended reliability and durability), but it will probably be relatively speaking close. Not sure where your comment about impressing WD comes from  - I generally don't get where this WD self-flaggelation streak manifested by many here comes from - if you think WDs are weirdos, why hang around?

But it looks to me that you threw it in as smoke screen to cover fact that you run out of argument as  you didn't address the key point I raised there to support my - admitedly speculative (as is everybody else's on this thread) argument. Top notch components and resulting high price. Unless that price (and top notch suspension which will necessisate it) is fake news, explain how high price of the bike will help manufacturer move units?

And BTW - I'm not advocating or dissing this bike (though it looks promising from my limited POV), just interpreting the data that has been presented in front of us. Unless that data is horribly incorrect (or actually correct in case of HP), this is not replacement of old school 650s, neither it is bigger brother to 250L. Which is both good and bad - depending on your POV.

Eish relax boet! You are right man!...  :lol8: This is a friendly discussion not a competion of who knows most! Go have a cold one!
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #162 on: May 25, 2018, 12:35:00 pm »
@Fransw: Oh don't worry, I'm perfectly chilled. I haven't been gainfully employed (i.e. stressed) for over year, chilling at home in my underwear procrastinating on my next trip. So I'm using my time wisely and getting some excitement by putting up bullet-proof arguments on WD  8)

Offline M3X3Z3

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #163 on: May 25, 2018, 12:35:42 pm »
About 5-6 years ago the Honda UK website listed a CRF450XL ( L or XL, I cant remeber) under their offroad bikes section.
It was a CRF450X + roadworthy kit + steel tank + conditional warranty clause that the bike not be ridden on tar for extended periods.

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Offline Battlestar

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #164 on: May 25, 2018, 12:41:29 pm »
@Fransw: Oh don't worry, I'm perfectly chilled. I haven't been gainfully employed (i.e. stressed) for over year, chilling at home in my underwear procrastinating on my next trip. So I'm using my time wisely and getting some excitement by putting up bullet-proof arguments on WD  8)
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Your doing a great job  :biggrin:
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Offline volroom

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #165 on: May 25, 2018, 02:05:14 pm »
for the purpose of learning again, why would a high performance engine require oil changes at smaller intervals? Because of higher combustion pressure - blow by?

Thinking - why would it require a rebuild at 30k km? Tolerances different? not properly balanced.

Thinking of a mx racing bike, its WOT most of the time, but I don't get that it 'required a new top-end' just like that. What will happen if you don't rebuild the top-end?
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Offline Cracker

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #166 on: May 25, 2018, 02:07:54 pm »
You'll save money  :thumleft:
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Offline Tom van Brits

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #167 on: May 25, 2018, 02:27:55 pm »
for the purpose of learning again, why would a high performance engine require oil changes at smaller intervals? Because of higher combustion pressure - blow by?

Thinking - why would it require a rebuild at 30k km? Tolerances different? not properly balanced.

Thinking of a mx racing bike, its WOT most of the time, but I don't get that it 'required a new top-end' just like that. What will happen if you don't rebuild the top-end?

I can only tell you what I think, maybe I am wrong  :-\

The modern 4 stroke MX bikes revs like (almost) the oldschool 2 strokes on the powerband. The wear will be excessive opposed to a normal low revving over-squire 650 Thumper. Take into consideration less oil, more heat= friction/wear
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #168 on: May 25, 2018, 02:41:17 pm »
What he said.. its due to the amount of oil the bike holds.
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #169 on: May 25, 2018, 02:45:20 pm »
What he said.. its due to the amount of oil the bike holds.

... and high revving  :o
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Offline volroom

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #170 on: May 25, 2018, 02:55:29 pm »
interesting. thanks. So, imagine same engine with a rev limiter and 1L more oil. That might increase service interval
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 02:55:54 pm by volroom »
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #171 on: May 25, 2018, 03:05:39 pm »
interesting. thanks. So, imagine same engine with a rev limiter and 1L more oil. That might increase service interval

Appears they have tamed it with the mapping and some other internal mods for improved longevity including extra piston ring. Lets face it generally Honda engines are solid if not over abused. This bike will be up for the job - some personal customising as usual ... horses for courses.
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Offline Fransw

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #172 on: May 25, 2018, 04:05:11 pm »
@Fransw: Oh don't worry, I'm perfectly chilled. I haven't been gainfully employed (i.e. stressed) for over year, chilling at home in my underwear procrastinating on my next trip. So I'm using my time wisely and getting some excitement by putting up bullet-proof arguments on WD  8)

@Xpat, I don't think you are chilled! Try some serotonin before going on a rant again!....
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #173 on: May 25, 2018, 04:44:04 pm »
@Fransw: Oh don't worry, I'm perfectly chilled. I haven't been gainfully employed (i.e. stressed) for over year, chilling at home in my underwear procrastinating on my next trip. So I'm using my time wisely and getting some excitement by putting up bullet-proof arguments on WD  8)

@Xpat, I don't think you are chilled! Try some serotonin before going on a rant again!....

OK, where do I get some? Do you sell any? Always a game for a substance experimentation...

Offline Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #174 on: May 25, 2018, 04:48:47 pm »
interesting. thanks. So, imagine same engine with a rev limiter and 1L more oil. That might increase service interval

Appears they have tamed it with the mapping and some other internal mods for improved longevity including extra piston ring. Lets face it generally Honda engines are solid if not over abused. This bike will be up for the job - some personal customising as usual ... horses for courses.

As far as I can see the mods probably affecting HP Honda did in this case are: lower compression ratio and third ring on the piston. Heavier flywheel will give more inertia - which I think will push the power curve lower in the revs, just not sure if it affects max HP.

On the oil capacity, I'm kind of not sure - I'm sure more oil is better for it to loast longer but differences betwen 500 and 690 a very small while service interval very different. As I said KTM 500 has 1.5L of oil and recommended interval 15hours - depending on avg speed let's say 1000 km, while KTM 690 has 1.7 liter of oil and recommended interval 10k km. And 690 I think revs higher.

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #175 on: May 25, 2018, 04:56:49 pm »
All brands always spec service and oil changes on potential race bikes very conservatively to protect themselves - this is based on race use. A heavier flywheel will rob some HP and is a favourite mod on an MX bike used for enduro - prevents stalling especially and spins up slower but as you say more inertia.
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Offline Hardy de Kock

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #176 on: May 25, 2018, 05:48:09 pm »
ttention: Hardy (Specialsed Adventures)
24/05/2018


2019 HONDA CRF450L

New model updates: Using the CRF450R moto-crosser as a base, Honda's new road-legal dual-purpose motorcycle has a tough, lightweight chassis built to find all the available grip, powered by an engine that delivers strong, usable power right from the bottom. Durable, high quality parts and long service intervals aim for a worry-free riding and ownership experience.

Contents:

1 Introduction

2 Model overview

3 Key features

4 Technical specifications

1. Introduction

A true dual-purpose motorcycle should be many things; off-road it needs to be light weight, with quality suspension and handling ability that keeps life easy as the going gets harder. Its engine has to make good power and torque from the bottom up - the sort that is supremely usable, allowing the rider to find all the rear wheel grip possible, whatever the terrain.

All the attributes that make it great fun off-road also enable it to be really useful around town; narrow and nimble, a dual-purpose machine slips through gaps, soaks up the hits from rough roads and stays well ahead of traffic thanks to smart, low-gear acceleration. It also needs to be turn-key reliable, with sensible intervals between major service work.

Competition machines can make a solid base for dual-purpose adaptation. But there is much to consider. Race-level performance brings with it an intensive maintenance schedule, which is simply too much for many 'hobby' trail riders, who just want to push a button and go - and keep on going, Furthermore, a barely-disguised race bike can mean crucial road-going elements - lights, indicators, ignition switch - are not as user-friendly and durable as they should be.

Honda understands this, and with a desire to produce a dual-purpose bike that draws strongly on the fundamental performance of a race machine, yet with much more 'normal' service intervals and high-quality road ancillaries, has taken its CRF450R moto-crosser as the base to start from, and created the new CRF450L.

It is unmistakably a race-bred CRF - and looks it - but with the additions and modifications needed to make it both road legal and supremely useable in a trail environment. As such, the CRF450L is a complete package, as happy roosting trails as it is linking them up on-road. And with Honda engineering and build quality at its core, is sure to do so for years to come.

Mr M. Uchiyama, Large Project Leader (LPL) 19YM CRF450L:

"The CRF450L is about having maximum fun out on the dirt. It looks like a CRF450R because, really, it is - just a trail-friendly, road-legal version. That's what the 'L' stands for - 'legal'. It's been engineered to deliver excellent handling feel, with linear engine torque that helps the rider make the most of the available grip in all conditions. AND, it contains its HRC-derived CRF technology within a real-world service schedule."

2. Model Overview

The journey from full race to road legal trail was a detailed one for the CRF450L. Road legality required the engine to gain EURO4 compliance, while from a longevity and usability viewpoint, the power output and character, needed careful attention.

It's still a CRF450R; just one that's quieter, both mechanically from the chassis and engine, as well as its new exhaust. Both fuelling and ignition maps are now managed by 02 lambda sensor; compression ratio has been lowered and crank mass increased for improved drivability. The gearbox is a 6-speed - for longer legs on the road - and a cush drive has been added to the 18-inch rear wheel.

The plastics are lifted directly from the CRF450R and all lighting is LED, with the front headlight in particular throwing out a penetrating beam. Increased volume for the titanium fuel tank adds range and all the items that make the CRF450L ready to purchase as a licensed, road going machine - such as speedometer and horn - are present as standard.

3. Key Features

3.1 Engine

Based on the CRF450R, with first major service at 32,000km
EURO4 compliant, with electric start
Greater crank inertia improves drivability and feel for traction
6-speed gearbox
While the chassis was more straightforward to convert from its CRF450R moto-crosser specification to a dual-purpose performance level, the 449cc engine needed more consideration from Honda's engineers. Requirements were several: the need for it to pass EURO4 emissions and noise regulations, and to be usable for a wide variety of riders in many differing situations both on and off-road.

While the fundamental architecture of the four-valve Unicam powerplant remains the same, many details have been changed to support the broader role: the crank's mass has been increased, resulting in 13% more inertia which, for a trail rider, equals improved torque feel and response; valve timing has been revised to give the broader, smoother spread of power and torque; the gearbox is now 6-speed, rather than 5 for longer range use on tarmac; left and right engine covers wear outer covers to reduce noise;

Elsewhere, the ACG has been uprated, to provide the required electrical power for the LED lights and to maintain battery charge during lower-speed running. The battery itself is a high-volume unit.

Bore and stroke are unchanged from the CRF450R, at 96mm x 62.1mm, but the piston uses 3 rings instead of 2 for greater durability. Compression ratio is 12.0:1 (compared 13.5:1). The redesigned airbox feeds the PGM-FI, managed by a lambda sensor in the large-volume single exhaust (which replaces the 'stubby' dual-pipe design of the CRF450R). An Air Injection (AI) system and catalyser clean up the spent gases.

The four-valve Unicam cylinder head features a finger rocker arm on the inlet valves; valve lift is 7.7mm with 6.7mm exhaust valve lift. Inlet valve diameter is 38mm. The valve springs are oval in cross section and valve angle is 9 intake/10.5 exhaust.

The clutch spins 7 friction discs with a 2mm clutch plate efficiently dissipating heat; the springs generate a good, consistent connection. The front sprocket is a 13T, the rear 51T.

Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-rider's perspective is the engine's reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450L's build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km.

3.2 Chassis

Drawn from the 18YM CRF450R, with minor adaptations for its dual purpose role
Full LED lighting, increased fuel tank volume and sidestand
Larger radiator volume, plus electric fan
Styling closely mirrors that of CRF450R
Having received a ground-up redesign in 2016, the CRF450R's chassis was a perfect place for the CRF450L to start out from, with changes to match the machine's vastly broader usage range, and road legal mission.

Firstly, the tapered dual-spar aluminium beam frame was made slightly wider at the swingarm pivot points, to allow for the greater engine width resulting from the 6-speed gearbox. The headstock was modified to mount a steering lock and the aluminium swingarm injected with urethane to reduce noise. The rear subframe is the same, with mounting point adjusted to take the taillight and the right-exit single exhaust muffler.

Rake and trail are set at 28.5/122mm with wheelbase increased 18mm from the CRF450R to 1500mm, for greater stability. Both the R and the L feature 22mm fork offset.Wet weight is 130.8kg; seat height is 940mm.

A 49mm Showa steel-sprung USD fork - adjustable for preload plus compression damping - is matched by a fully adjustable Showa rear shock, operated through Pro-Link. A 260mm wave-pattern disc delivers effective heat dissipation, power and feel from the two-piston brake caliper working it; a matching 240mm wave-pattern disc and single-piston caliper is at the rear.

Whereas the CRF450R machine uses a 19-inch rear wheel, the CRF450L's is an 18-inch (to fit enduro-spec tyres), with the addition of a cush drive to absorb chain shock; a sealed 520 chain is protected by a plastic chain guard. The front wheel is a 21-inch and both rims are finished in black. Tyres are sized 80/100-21 front and 120/80-18 rear.

The CRF450L's style draws fully on that of the CRF450R. Carried over are the rear mudguard, side panels and bash plate. Svelte side shrouds hide a larger radiator volume plus electric fan. All lighting (including the indicators and license-plate light) is LED; a speedometer, horn, brake-light switch and mirrors satisfy legal requirements while a sidestand adds convenience. The CRF450R employs a 6.3L titanium fuel tank; the CRF450L ups the volume 1.3L to 7.6L. The fuel cap also locks in place.

4. Technical Specifications

 

 

ENGINE

 

Type

Liquid-cooled 4-stroke single cylinder uni-cam

Displacement

449cc

Bore and Stroke

96.0mm x 62.1mm

Compression Ratio

12.0:1

FUEL SYSTEM

 

Carburation

PGM-FI Fuel injection

Fuel Tank Capacity

7.6 litres

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

 

Ignition

Digital CDI

Starter

Electric

DRIVETRAIN

 

Clutch Type

Wet multiplate

Transmission Type

Chain

Final Drive

Chain

FRAME

 

Type

Aluminium twin tube

CHASSIS

 

Dimensions (LWH)

2,280mm x 825mm x 1,260mm

Wheelbase

1500mm

Caster Angle

28.5

Trail

122mm

Seat Height

940mm

Ground Clearance

315mm

Kerb Weight

130.8kg

SUSPENSION

 

Type Front

49mm Showa steel-sprung USD fork

Type Rear

Showa monoshock using Honda Pro-Link system

WHEELS

 

Type Front

Aluminium spoke

Type Rear

Aluminium spoke

Tyres Front

80/100-21
Tyres Rear

120/80-18

BRAKES

 

Front

Single Disk

Rear

Single Disk

 

All specifications are provisional and subject to change without notice.

*The CRF450L will be launching in South Africa in the last quarter of 2018.

                                                                     
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #177 on: May 25, 2018, 06:04:00 pm »
Still question that 18.4 kW power output - the 2018 CRF450R claims to put out more than twice this (almost 60HP). Surely they could not have castrated it on this model so much? Must be at typo.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 06:25:01 pm by BiG DoM »
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Offline volroom

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #178 on: May 25, 2018, 06:13:01 pm »
Look, I guess dual sport means something else than I thought, but this is not something I would consider - 18kW? 7.6L fuel tank? oil and filter every 1000km? Sure they have made a lot of changes, but we can surely make a short list of things that would really have made this bike more SA friendly. I mean, you will exceed the filter interval on a single big trip easily. but what do I know
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #179 on: May 25, 2018, 06:25:22 pm »
Still question that 18.4 kW power output - the 2018 CRF450R claims to put out more than twice this (almost 60HP). Surely they could not have castrated it this model much? Must be at typo.

Ja I think that is a BS figure. I suspect closer to 45-50hp is what we should expect from the factory. More when you uncork I guess.
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!