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Author Topic: Honda CRF450L is coming  (Read 24888 times)

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Online Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #840 on: January 03, 2019, 07:36:01 am »
@Dux: which countries is CRFL legal in and KTM 500 is not? Give specific examples and your source please.

We have been through this before on this thread and you have been proven wrong when you said that KTM is not 50 states legal in US. It is and has been for years - look up the dirtbikemagazine link I have already sent long time ago proving you wrong on that one. As California is with Europe the most stringent country in terms of emissions and noise control, I wonder what other countries may be even stricter...

KTM must and is complying with the same emission and noise control as this CRFL and has been for years way before this Honda was conceived - it is actually leading the way in this segment and Honda just follows. Here is another related read for those who are interested in facts and not just opinions: https://dirtbikemagazine.com/ktm-500exc-dual-sport-full-test-2/

The funny part of this whole point is that it doesn't matter - people are not going to buy or not buy this bike because it was first or not. KTM was mentioned in this thread only because it is the obvious competition and as such it is the right benchmark to highlight CRFLs strengths and weaknesses. Most rational people are going to do their own research and make their decision based on their priorities - which may include brand loyalty - anyway. So there is no need to deny reality in things that are easily verifiable (legality of each specific bike).

Offline 2StrokeDan

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #841 on: January 03, 2019, 08:20:32 am »
The 500 KTM is indeed street-legal in all 50 states.
 

Online Dux

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #842 on: January 03, 2019, 09:05:19 am »
@Dux: which countries is CRFL legal in and KTM 500 is not? Give specific examples and your source please.

We have been through this before on this thread and you have been proven wrong when you said that KTM is not 50 states legal in US. It is and has been for years - look up the dirtbikemagazine link I have already sent long time ago proving you wrong on that one. As California is with Europe the most stringent country in terms of emissions and noise control, I wonder what other countries may be even stricter...

KTM must and is complying with the same emission and noise control as this CRFL and has been for years way before this Honda was conceived - it is actually leading the way in this segment and Honda just follows. Here is another related read for those who are interested in facts and not just opinions: https://dirtbikemagazine.com/ktm-500exc-dual-sport-full-test-2/

The funny part of this whole point is that it doesn't matter - people are not going to buy or not buy this bike because it was first or not. KTM was mentioned in this thread only because it is the obvious competition and as such it is the right benchmark to highlight CRFLs strengths and weaknesses. Most rational people are going to do their own research and make their decision based on their priorities - which may include brand loyalty - anyway. So there is no need to deny reality in things that are easily verifiable (legality of each specific bike).

From Cycle News :

'' The newest bike to this fleet of rides is Honda’s highly anticipated CRF450L. It comes years after people started screaming for street-legal CRF450Xs.
In a sense, the Honda CRF450L represents the future of dual-sport development. It’s the only bike in the test that incorporates a catalytic converter into the exhaust (it’s in the 13-pound muffler). It’s also obvious by looking at and riding the 450L that sound control, not just exhaust cleanliness, was a paramount developmental focus. Insulated plastic covers encapsulate the entire running gear and engine. Cushioned sprockets keep the chain from being noisy on rotation. The airbox is hidden deep inside the skeleton, far away from pesky sound meters that could pick up decibel-spiking intake rattle, gurgle or gulp as the CRF combusts.

Yes, the Honda is a compromised machine, in a sense, because of its meticulous development for—and careful final production specs to meet—street legality (and off-road) standards with nothing left to chance. It’s very Honda in this sense. And it is meeting future regulations that the United States might not even see.The Honda is Euro 4 compliant , none of the Euro bikes would meet those levels , and to the best of my knowledge that would eliminate large sections of Europe from having a road Legal KTM 500

Even as such, it puts traditional dual-sport performance to shame with modern off-road racing-inspired engine performance and suspension. Also nice is that this bike will likely remain mostly unchanged for the next decade, meaning the aftermarket will soon have the keys to make this into whatever people want. As a platform, the Honda is as solid as the Ride Red brand is in American dirt-bikers’ hearts. ''
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Online Xpat

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #843 on: January 03, 2019, 10:15:39 am »
@Dux: Ok, thank you for that.

First of all, that article works on conjecture regarding the future road legality of Euro brands - they could easily implement additional changes in the future to keep their bikes legal (with appropriate performance/specs penalty of course), at the end of the day there is nothing ground braking in this Honda (some plastics and foam in swingarm. But it also raises some valid points IMO with regards to different approach of Honda and Euro brands use to deal with this regulatory monster.

Let's start with basic facts here as they stand right now: KTM 500 (and other Euro legal bikes, including most of the other 4 stroke EXC KTMs) are right now (at least for 2019) streel legal in all 50 US, as well as in EU - the most strict regulatory environments out there (quite frankly I don't care if they are legal in Mongolia - which I'm pretty sure they are). Just to be sure, here is an advert from UK ebay selling new 2019 KTM 500 EXC as road legal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-KTM-500-EXC-F-SIX-DAYS-2019-Model-Road-Legal-Enduro-Bike-Finance-Avail-/132651283950.

Where the article is right IMO is in highlighting different approach Honda and Euro brands take to comply with regs. Honda as a mass volume manufacturer with serious dislike of frequent model updates decided to comply not just with the current, but also with the future regulations, in order to not have to mod the bike in the future. Yet, despite this approach even Honda acknowledges potentially diverging regulations between Europe and the rest of the world in the future, as it is coming up with two versions of this bike - 25 HP version for Europe and 40+ HP for the rest of the world. How many 25 HP CRFLs will be sold in Europe I will leave to anybodys imagination.

On the other KTM (and I'm guessing other Euro mfgs) uses more frequent model updates to just keep up with the current regulations, while giving the end customer the best possible performance given the reg constraints valid at the time. Unless regulators will start forcing scraping older models with every new regulation (which is not going to happen - otherwise most cars now in Europe would have to be scraped this year when new regulations became valid), this approach of course gives end customer the best product that still is road legal at the time (and will be possible to buy second hand for many years to come). Whether they will keep this up, or decide to fold this whole road legal thingy in the future is anybody's guess (how difficult it is to add little plastic, catalytic converter which is today available for KTM 500 already, and map with less HP?), but as far as I'm concerned irrelevant, because at least they are giving me the best product now and I can stock up (as I plan to do) on older models so that I can ride this out until hopefully somebody come up with good enough electric bike.

Which approach you prefer is personal choice of course, but I still can't see hordes of customers in Europe getting excited about buying 25HP bike for the price of currently available road legal KTM 500, just because it may still be road legal new 10 years from now (you can of course buy plated second hand bike not complying with latest regs with better performance as there are plenty examples of that). The 40+ version which hopefully will come to RSA is much better option (especially with lack of technical controls one may be able to open it up here, while that is not advisable in Europe and US), but still IMO priced wrong. But the price is by far the easiest to change and I suspect that Honda will lower the price considerably once they will face what I believe will be slow initial uptake in sales. With more favourable price, this bike (the 40+ version) may have good run and indeed tightening future regulations that this bike supposedly already complies with (outside Europe) may bring the competition closer to Honda in terms of performance/weight as they might have to add some of those things Honda already done.

With that said, I'm still not sure why any buyer will worry right now about future regulations that will inevitably make bikes more bland. Actually if one wants to still derive as much enjoyment out of bikes for as long as possible, they should rather stock up on current bikes, as the future ones of any brand will inevitably became more dull - unless some radical unforeseen inovation saves us all.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 10:23:45 am by Xpat »
 

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #844 on: January 03, 2019, 10:28:40 am »
...and on a COMPLETELY different note!


We are checking later today/tomorrow if our CRF 250 L and Rally LUGGAGE racks - the East/West and the North/South ones - will indeed be a direct fit onto the rear of the CRF 450L...


Ditto (meaning we are also checking...) on the CRF 250L/Rally CAMEL tank to check that it, too, fits, it's just 6 liters, bet we think those extra 6L will be sorely needed on the 450...!


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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #845 on: January 03, 2019, 02:51:48 pm »
update: Tygerberg got one 450L and it is sold, and has ...let the building...


Canal Walk has one, in a crate! When they uncrate it, we will test-fit the luggage rack.


Cheer, Chris
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Offline DavidMorrisXp

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #846 on: January 03, 2019, 03:58:10 pm »
update: Tygerberg got one 450L and it is sold, and has ...let the building...


Canal Walk has one, in a crate! When they uncrate it, we will test-fit the luggage rack.


Cheer, Chris

Price? sorry I found out R125k
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 04:00:37 pm by DavidMorrisXp »
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #847 on: January 03, 2019, 05:18:53 pm »
later on, in real world, be nice to see where a breathed CRF450L (pipe, filter, fueling, loosened up engine) stand compared to a xr650R (and also weight comparison as well)with a larger tank on the L.
In fact, putting a L and R back to back might make one very interesting read.


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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #848 on: January 03, 2019, 08:22:27 pm »
later on, in real world, be nice to see where a breathed CRF450L (pipe, filter, fueling, loosened up engine) stand compared to a xr650R (and also weight comparison as well)with a larger tank on the L.
In fact, putting a L and R back to back might make one very interesting read.

Why would you want to do that?
Imagine the 650R wins, how fucked is Honda then..
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #849 on: January 03, 2019, 08:36:28 pm »
Why? The 650r is in the past.
Is a 650 V strom better than a Dr650?
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #850 on: January 03, 2019, 08:49:18 pm »
later on, in real world, be nice to see where a breathed CRF450L (pipe, filter, fueling, loosened up engine) stand compared to a xr650R (and also weight comparison as well)with a larger tank on the L.
In fact, putting a L and R back to back might make one very interesting read.
On the previous 450X Johnny Campbell said the 650R was faster and more stable in the straight sections of Baja. When it came to the corners the 450 was much better and could change direction much more easy so no surprises really. Over the total race distance who knows. No 690 or 500 could beat the 450X though, it was a graat bike and they always had some of the best riders.
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #851 on: January 03, 2019, 08:50:35 pm »
Would like to see a KX500 vs XR650 vs CRF450X slug it out  :drif:
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #852 on: January 03, 2019, 09:03:54 pm »
Also chuck in there the rof en onbeskof GS310 for good measure :ricky:
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #853 on: January 03, 2019, 09:08:35 pm »
Why? The 650r is in the past.
Is a 650 V strom better than a Dr650?

What am I missing here?

« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:11:44 pm by Runner »
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #854 on: January 03, 2019, 09:34:08 pm »
Also chuck in there the rof en onbeskof GS310 for good measure :ricky:

Nope , not fair , gotta give the others a chance
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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #855 on: January 03, 2019, 09:35:22 pm »
Why? The 650r is in the past.
Is a 650 V strom better than a Dr650?

What am I missing here?

I wonder what a new generation XR650R would be like
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Offline 2StrokeDan

Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #856 on: January 03, 2019, 10:34:55 pm »
Would like to see a KX500 vs XR650 vs CRF450X slug it out  :drif:

A appropriately geared KX will almost hit 200, and a XR-R not far behind, the 450 might get asthma.
 

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #857 on: January 04, 2019, 07:21:12 am »
Off the topic I know but I think Honda missed a big DS trick not equipping the 650R with e start. I loved my XR600 even but the e start KTM 520 was a game changer. But the whole game has moved on.
 

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Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
« Reply #858 on: January 08, 2019, 09:08:44 am »
Wat gaan aan? I would have thought by now there should have been a decent stock at S.A. dealers. Any dogs in S.A. bought/ridden one yet?
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!