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Author Topic: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA  (Read 21914 times)

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Offline Xpat

Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #260 on: November 02, 2018, 06:55:54 pm »
Rally bikes do not work for me anymore, but I have sat on one of these PR7 last year in Slovakia and the owner - older gentleman with long motocross history, really liked it. He could take it to motocross track for some fun and then ride it home on road with ease. It will be interesting if there were any changes made to the engine and wide ration gearbox. I had that engine and gearbox in my TE630 and used to gloat about the WR gearbox, but in retrospect I have to say it was too wide. The engine in my TE630 (with power-up kit, open airbox and JD Tuner) just didn't have enough juice to really do anything in 6th gear - couldn't overtake, or even slight inclines (even with bigger rear sprocket, which then made 1st gear very short). But one thing was for sure - in low gears, that bike was traction king.

Hopefully this bike will be a success and rejuvenalize this admitedly niche market segment.

Here 2 riding videos of PR7 (sorry if they were already posted) - one from my village back in Europe and one from Ozzy sand. The bike seems to handle well - I would sure love to have that suspension on one of my bikes:




Offline BiG DoM

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #261 on: November 02, 2018, 07:11:06 pm »
Naaise  :ricky:
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Offline katana

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #262 on: November 02, 2018, 07:21:45 pm »
I cannot think in terms of this bike without using expletives.  Fuk that tank/airbox is narrow.    :drif:
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #263 on: November 02, 2018, 10:12:34 pm »
Rally bikes do not work for me anymore, but I have sat on one of these PR7 last year in Slovakia and the owner - older gentleman with long motocross history, really liked it. He could take it to motocross track for some fun and then ride it home on road with ease. It will be interesting if there were any changes made to the engine and wide ration gearbox. I had that engine and gearbox in my TE630 and used to gloat about the WR gearbox, but in retrospect I have to say it was too wide. The engine in my TE630 (with power-up kit, open airbox and JD Tuner) just didn't have enough juice to really do anything in 6th gear - couldn't overtake, or even slight inclines (even with bigger rear sprocket, which then made 1st gear very short). But one thing was for sure - in low gears, that bike was traction king.

Hopefully this bike will be a success and rejuvenalize this admitedly niche market segment.

Here 2 riding videos of PR7 (sorry if they were already posted) - one from my village back in Europe and one from Ozzy sand. The bike seems to handle well - I would sure love to have that suspension on one of my bikes:




I had the same issue with my 610, the 6th gear was not usable at all unless you were on a downhill. Still the suspension, handling and gearing at normal speeds were much better than almost any DS bike. I still reckon a 610 / 630 is just as good as any 690 at half the price.
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Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #264 on: November 03, 2018, 12:46:05 am »

I had the same issue with my 610, the 6th gear was not usable at all unless you were on a downhill. Still the suspension, handling and gearing at normal speeds were much better than almost any DS bike. I still reckon a 610 / 630 is just as good as any 690 at half the price.

[/quote]

I have to disagree. The 610/630 are awesome bikes but will never be the same or "just as good" as a 690/701. The only reason they get compared is by default due to there having been a dearth of similar bikes in what call the 'half loaf' category. I say this owning both and a big fan of the 610/630. They just are different animals with different characteristic engines, gearboxes and frames. Yes the 610/630 are excellent value for money if you can find one, and are really very capable light DS bikes. Personally I have no issue with the 6th gear and sorted it with sprockets and like it lots - much like the 6th on the old 1150 BMW's - almost an overdrive. You want grunt to overtake drop a gear if necessary - this is a 600 after all. It can be set up great and chug technical with superb traction all day. Now the 690/701 is a race bread engine with enduro genetics frame, ergos etc. - immediately noticeable. Far more peaky powerplant and matched gearbox, more sophisticated technically and less old school thumperish. It does also need setting up for purpose like most bikes. In the same breath do not compare the AJP to a 690/701 - this it will never be and probably an unfair expectation.That said it looks like a very nice mid size DS bike and pretty much already fit for purpose - would I buy it instead of a 701 ... I did not even give it more than 30 seconds thought (but maybe because I already have an Italian one).  :ricky: 
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Offline Weedkiller - Adie

Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #265 on: November 03, 2018, 07:24:09 am »
Ok, here is a flyer.

I took a quick search and it seems as if the Navigation app is Locus Map. 
Here is the story to load your standard GPX from Basecamp etc http://www.locusmap.eu/what-is-gpx-and-what-can-you-do-with-it-in-locus/

If I'm wrong with the app let me know.

Adie
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #266 on: November 03, 2018, 10:25:35 am »
Ok, here is a flyer.

I took a quick search and it seems as if the Navigation app is Locus Map. 
Here is the story to load your standard GPX from Basecamp etc http://www.locusmap.eu/what-is-gpx-and-what-can-you-do-with-it-in-locus/

If I'm wrong with the app let me know.

Adie
I bought a 2nd hand tablet yesterday for R450 and loaded Locus Map. Works great.
Little by little, one travels far

J.R.R Tolkien
Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline Slasher

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #267 on: November 04, 2018, 12:26:11 pm »
What you mustn't forget is that the AJP PR7 that is coming in to South Africa is the 60 hp model so cannot be compared to the TE630 at around 40 hp ( these are the specs I can find on the TE630 ). It pulls like a train in 6th gear so no need to gear down - I know as I own an AJP PR7 60hp model. The other model that is available from AJP in the PR7 class is a 48hp so this is perhaps what the guys earlier were talking about as the 48hp model is the one sold in Europe.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 12:32:06 pm by Slasher »
2018 AJP PR7
 

Offline Xpat

Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #268 on: November 04, 2018, 12:36:49 pm »
What you mustn't forget is that the AJP PR7 that is coming in to South Africa is the 60 hp model so cannot be compared to the TE630 at around 40 hp ( these are the specs I can find on the TE630 ). It pulls like a train in 6th gear so no need to gear down - I know as I own an AJP PR7 60hp model.

Wrong about TE630. It was specified at 58 HP. Which it never had, not even with power up kit, open airbox, racing ECU and Arrow pipes - all of which I had. It was not even close to 690 power, which 58-60 hp would put it close to at the time (they were specified at that time at about 65 HP, not the latest 75HP models).

I'm pretty sure the engine is the same - seriously doubt they could get more power out of it AND comply with the Euro4/5  (which was the reason why they had to switch from MInarelly 660 engine they used in the original prototypes). Obviously they could have put very different sprockets in and then it should be able to pull even 6th gear. But unless they changed the gear ratios of the 630 engine, then the first gear is completely useless.

But hey - I'm glad you enjoy the bike, and please let us know if the TE630 engine or its gearbox (which according to everyting I've read is exactly what is in AJP) has been modified.

Edit: didn't see last sentence about 48 HP model in Europe initially (did you just add it in?). So what is the difference between 48HP and 60 HP models? Still - 630 was 58 specified from the factory (which as I said it didn't have according to my seat of pants even after being derestricted).
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 12:41:16 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline Xpat

Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #269 on: November 04, 2018, 12:48:21 pm »
Here is comparo of TE630 vs 690 and you can see in the dyno graph that it came in at about 46 RWHP while 690 came in at 50 RWHP. I have no idea what the loss is between crank and rear wheel, but assuming KTM really had about 65 HP on the crank, the TE630 will be somewhere in the vicinity of the 58 HP or so (if extrapolated based on KTM numbers):

https://www.rustsports.com/metal/dual-sport/2011-ktm-690-enduro-r-vs-husky-te630_6975.html

I'm very curious what AJP (or SWM) did to have two models - one 48 HP for Europe, and one 60 HP for elsewhere. Still the nominal number on AJP corresponds more or less with the original TE630

Offline Slasher

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #270 on: November 04, 2018, 02:05:32 pm »
I got my info here but see they found something wrong with the bike much further down in the article - http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/te630-dyno-results-and-thoughts.24763/ . Australia gets the 48hp model and USA gets the 60hp model. I am not sure why anyone would want the 48hp model unless there is a law in place that governs this in Australia. I see the Husky and KTM 690's push out around 69hp now ( the newer bikes )  but is this at the back wheel ?
2018 AJP PR7
 

Offline Xpat

Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #271 on: November 04, 2018, 02:33:16 pm »
Look, I had the bike and was inmate on Cafehusky - and had my 630 dynoed more than once (my dyno graphs are hanging somewhere on CH as well as here - don't remember where). If I remember correctly it was about 48 HP on the rear wheel - but keep in mind that dyno is basicaly a black magic and they can more or less come up with any number just by alternating settings.

Current 690 (upcoming with engine in current Duke) as well as 701 have specified 75 HP. On the crank, not rear wheel - exactly the same as your 60 or whatever HP are also on crank and not on the rear wheel (I would guess you get about those 48 on RW if there is really 60 on crank). Because that is how manufacturers specify it (which kind of makes sense because RW HP are affected for example by tyre on the wheel).

I think I understand why 48 HP for Europe (not sure why for Australia) - because of Euro4/5 that the engine needs to comply with, they had to restrict the original TE630 engine further. I'm pretty confident that your AJP has exactly the same engine as my TE630 had in 2011 (i.e. could get away with less stringent regulations), while the Euro/Ozzy version is the same engine but restricted even further probably in airbox, ECU/map or some such. Your bike may have few HP more or less than mine had because of the different airbox, exhaust and possibly ECU (but I had racing ECU on mine with racing timing), but apart from it is the same would be mu guess.

If you say that it pulls strong in 6th gear, than they either alternated WR gearbox I complained above (that would be the best solution), or just used different sprockets, which may make 6th usable, but will make 1st gear more or less redundant. Don't you have in service manual or somewhere stipulated gear ratios for AJP?

Offline Xpat

Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #272 on: November 04, 2018, 02:44:29 pm »
OK found my dyno done on TE630 - here it is on CafeHusky: http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/jd-tuner-settings.21032/page-3#post-207128


It came to 47 RWHP. The performance mods on the bike were: Open airbox, Arrows pipes, racing ECU, JD tuner with custom map.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 02:45:16 pm by Xpat »
 

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #273 on: November 04, 2018, 06:15:00 pm »
If you boys are talking pulling power, then you need to talk torques, not so?
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Offline Xpat

Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #274 on: November 04, 2018, 06:43:48 pm »
If you boys are talking pulling power, then you need to talk torques, not so?


I don't know and frankly don't care - I'm sure somebody will say that power is jut torque at higher revs or some such.

For me the power / torque isn't the problem (we just got sidelined discussing real numbers on TE630 as an approximation of AJP) at all. If this bike has roughly the same power and/or torque as TE630, that is perfectly fine - there is no other bike in this of category (single, long service intervals) baring 690/701, that comes close anyway.

The WR gearbox would be the problem for me - while my 630 was significantly more powerful than nominally less powerfull Tenere, it couldn't run away from it almost in any speed, as the 1st and 2nd were too short and 6th way too long. I guess there is a reason that manufacturers avoided putting 6 speed gearboxes into bikes in this category (singles about 650cc) as the bikes do not have enough oomph to really pull the 6th gear, unless they make it really close ratio gearbox like KTM did in 690/701 (and got hammered for by many people, including myself originally.). Hopefully AJP has changed the gear ratios, but I would be surprise if they did as they do not manufacture the engine as far as I understand.

This is really going to be problem only if one wants to use this bike for long distance boring dirt touring (and then one can change sprockets to make 6th more lively, but 1st useless). If you use it in right places (e.g. those Ozzy dunes above), you will not need that 6th gear anyway. Here are some videos of my TE630 in desert as well as in mountains, and in none of those the long 6th gear was an issue - as I never got to it. Pure power/torque wise the bike could handle any of those easily and so would this AJP:








« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 06:44:33 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #275 on: November 04, 2018, 07:30:47 pm »
I think any D/S bike can do with a tractor first gear, so change your FD ratios until 6th is usable.

Then simply use your 2nd gear as first in any normal work.

Easy to figure these things out. >:D
 

Offline Xpat

Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #276 on: November 04, 2018, 07:41:18 pm »
I think any D/S bike can do with a tractor first gear, so change your FD ratios until 6th is usable.

Then simply use your 2nd gear as first in any normal work.

Easy to figure these things out. >:D

Except 630 has tractor first gear plus very short 2nd with standard sprockets already. To make 6th usable, the 2nd becomes a tractor 1st gear (unless you have trials balancing skills and can ride at about 3 kmh on the wound up first). So effectively making 6 gear bike a 5 gear one.

But we digress - Slasher, if you get a chance please post gear ratios for AJP. Ta
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 07:42:11 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #277 on: November 04, 2018, 08:39:14 pm »
The AJP comes with a special app on it's tablet that gives 60HP at the back wheel, for an extra $100 you can have it without advertisements
Little by little, one travels far

J.R.R Tolkien
Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #278 on: November 04, 2018, 08:42:59 pm »
The AJP comes with a special app on it's tablet that gives 60HP at the back wheel, for an extra $100 you can have it without advertisements

60 HP on the rear wheel......

701 claims about 74 HP on the crank......

That makes them about equally powerful.
 

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Re: AJP model PR7 - coming to SA
« Reply #279 on: November 04, 2018, 08:51:25 pm »
The AJP comes with a special app on it's tablet that gives 60HP at the back wheel, for an extra $100 you can have it without advertisements

60 HP on the rear wheel......

701 claims about 74 HP on the crank......

That makes them about equally powerful.

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