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Offline genie

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Traction control- levels of engagement
« on: October 22, 2018, 10:50:28 am »
Up to now I have been switching traction control off when going onto gravel- it works well, but I thought it had a bit too much wheel spin at times. So I did a trial and switched it onto the lowest bar i.e. almost off. When going up some slippery muddy inclines everything worked well for about 50 m until the engine started spluttering i.e. traction control kicked in. Fortunately the conditions were not that hectic and there were no consequences!
Anybody with good riding experience on the AT that can recommend what traction control setting for what condition?
 

Offline Mpandla

Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 11:02:35 am »
Thats a good question
I also just turn it off completely. But I leave the ABS on though
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Offline edgy

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 11:06:48 am »
I switch mine off completely EVERY time I start the bike and could only think it would add any kind of value on wet tar
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Offline Dux

Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 11:07:30 am »
Try T1 , the least invasive setting , I recall T3 being the default setting and most severe
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Offline Mpandla

Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 11:11:06 am »
I switch mine off completely EVERY time I start the bike and could only think it would add any kind of value on wet tar

It helps on wet tar! Saved my bacon the other day on a wet road
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Offline Haboob

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 07:27:39 pm »
I leave mine on default. Why not, it don't intervine, swith on or interfere when riding on normal dry tar. And you never know when that diesel spill  around the next corner is going to surprise you.

On gravel I swith to level 1 or maybe 2. I want that little wheelspin, especially on corrugated roads.

Deep sand, serious mud or very loose technical sections, I switch it off completely.

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Offline Mikie

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2018, 07:04:27 am »
I am not sure traction control will save your ass from a diesel spill  :patch:
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Offline RallyMan

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2018, 12:07:49 pm »
Offroad        ABS OFF TC on 1 BAR

ONROAD   ABS ON  TC on 3 BARS

 

Offline Kamanya

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2018, 01:12:34 pm »
Having just spent 10 days on Honda Quest in everything from tar to especially deep sand and steep technical climbs this is what I suggest;

Onroad: Just leave all the aids on and just fiddle with the different drive/sport/manual options as you desire.

Offroad:

Abs off. BUT, remember it only turns off the rear and the pedal is sensitive and powerful, easily capable of locking it under any conditions.
The front brake is an amazing bit of technology, I am certain that I cannot beat it for braking performance. It is very powerful and unbelievably competent. I couldn't trick it under any circumstances except at almost standstill on very slippery surfaces like a steel floor, then it just rolls on. But how many steel floors are you going to be riding on a under walking speed?

TC. The manual refers to it as torque control not traction control, this is an important distinction.
In deep sand  or very steep loose stuff, you are going nowhere with it on. The bike just splutters and farts to a standstill. The reason is that it's trying to reduce torque to stop wheel spin. In those conditions, its actually better to have constant torque allowing the wheel to spin regardless of traction needs. On sand you want access to high power & torque to generate massive wheel spin to get up onto the plane. Whilst on loose steep stuff, you want access to a fair level of constant torque that allows the wheel to grab where it can but not spin up radically.

On gravel TC-3 is very intrusive but provides a high level of safety for very inexperienced gravel riders, it cuts in all the time.  TC-1 allows for some wheel spin and will allow the back to step out some before it cuts in. It's pretty sophisticated.

The challenge for the system is when there is  lowish RPM, medium to higher torque needs and low/spotty traction. For example when going up a steep pass tricky pass. The secret, if you want to keep traction control on is to force the system to keep high RPM's by not allowing it to change down too soon. The bike will often try for another gear and when it does, the torque control really struggles to keep up and so just reduces the torque available until you sputter to a stop.

With TC on at any level, Drive is successvly worse the higher the TC level for sputtering to a standstill as it tries to get to the higher gears ASAP. Sport 3 will hold a gear the longest, but it's tiring to ride for too long. In the end I would switch between S3/2 and Drive depending. If I wanted some fun then it was S3, for cruising it was Drive.

I seldom had TC on offroad, but did use it from time to time when not riding hard.

Bottom line is off road, if you want TC, force the system to keep a lower gear for best results.

Lastly, the bike will not change gear under full power or very big throttle positions, so if you're riding up a hill and trying to dial in more power as the TC is cutting in, it will need you to reduce the throttle angle just a little to be able to change to a lower gear.
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Offline DavidMorrisXp

Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2018, 08:22:39 am »
Having just spent 10 days on Honda Quest in everything from tar to especially deep sand and steep technical climbs this is what I suggest;

Onroad: Just leave all the aids on and just fiddle with the different drive/sport/manual options as you desire.

Offroad:

Abs off. BUT, remember it only turns off the rear and the pedal is sensitive and powerful, easily capable of locking it under any conditions.
The front brake is an amazing bit of technology, I am certain that I cannot beat it for braking performance. It is very powerful and unbelievably competent. I couldn't trick it under any circumstances except at almost standstill on very slippery surfaces like a steel floor, then it just rolls on. But how many steel floors are you going to be riding on a under walking speed?

TC. The manual refers to it as torque control not traction control, this is an important distinction.
In deep sand  or very steep loose stuff, you are going nowhere with it on. The bike just splutters and farts to a standstill. The reason is that it's trying to reduce torque to stop wheel spin. In those conditions, its actually better to have constant torque allowing the wheel to spin regardless of traction needs. On sand you want access to high power & torque to generate massive wheel spin to get up onto the plane. Whilst on loose steep stuff, you want access to a fair level of constant torque that allows the wheel to grab where it can but not spin up radically.

On gravel TC-3 is very intrusive but provides a high level of safety for very inexperienced gravel riders, it cuts in all the time.  TC-1 allows for some wheel spin and will allow the back to step out some before it cuts in. It's pretty sophisticated.

The challenge for the system is when there is  lowish RPM, medium to higher torque needs and low/spotty traction. For example when going up a steep pass tricky pass. The secret, if you want to keep traction control on is to force the system to keep high RPM's by not allowing it to change down too soon. The bike will often try for another gear and when it does, the torque control really struggles to keep up and so just reduces the torque available until you sputter to a stop.

With TC on at any level, Drive is successvly worse the higher the TC level for sputtering to a standstill as it tries to get to the higher gears ASAP. Sport 3 will hold a gear the longest, but it's tiring to ride for too long. In the end I would switch between S3/2 and Drive depending. If I wanted some fun then it was S3, for cruising it was Drive.

I seldom had TC on offroad, but did use it from time to time when not riding hard.

Bottom line is off road, if you want TC, force the system to keep a lower gear for best results.

Lastly, the bike will not change gear under full power or very big throttle positions, so if you're riding up a hill and trying to dial in more power as the TC is cutting in, it will need you to reduce the throttle angle just a little to be able to change to a lower gear.

Thanks for the above, being new to the DCT it was an interesting read. 

Under normal circumstances on the road the TC is actaully quite subtle, you don't really notice how much it cuts torque until you turn it off, then the bike is a different animal

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Offline genie

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2018, 03:15:12 pm »
Only time I notice TC intervention on normal tar roads with it in normal position I.e. full activation the bike is when I go over speed humps at speeds causing the back wheel to have no or little contact with the road- engine ďsputtersĒ I would not have thought there would be engine torque reduction under normal road conditions. Obviously a wet road can lead to slippage and TC intervention
 

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2018, 07:58:02 am »
Tar: TC on, 3 bars default
Dirt: TC off, to have full control for power slides  :ricky:

If I do long stretches of dirt Iíll switch ABS off, but my normal routes are normally a mix of tar and dirt so I often just keep ABS on.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 07:59:14 am by Boerbok »
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Offline DavidMorrisXp

Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2018, 08:19:18 pm »
Tar: TC on, 3 bars default
Dirt: TC off, to have full control for power slides  :ricky:

If I do long stretches of dirt Iíll switch ABS off, but my normal routes are normally a mix of tar and dirt so I often just keep ABS on.

I have not been on dirt - waiting for the 1000km service when the crash bars will be fitted

Must say when I had the manual, I did very little dirt, only short stretches
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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2018, 09:24:32 pm »
Tar: TC on, 3 bars default
Dirt: TC off, to have full control for power slides  :ricky:

If I do long stretches of dirt Iíll switch ABS off, but my normal routes are normally a mix of tar and dirt so I often just keep ABS on.

I have not been on dirt - waiting for the 1000km service when the crash bars will be fitted

Must say when I had the manual, I did very little dirt, only short stretches

If you donít do dirt on the AT, you are seriously doing yourself and your bike an injustice. Dirt, and especially where the dirt gets dirty os where the AT comes to life. My experience of the AT is that on tar/nice roads it was just... a bike. Nothing wow. But when the bad roads came... exhilirating...confidence inspiring...alive...awesome...fantastic...

Thats some of the words that comes to mind  :biggrin:
 

Offline genie

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2018, 09:40:58 pm »
Did a Country trax intermediate course this week end. Went up a long, steep gradient with quite a few patches of marbles. Did it yesterday without traction control on- quite easy as long as you keep constant throttle and look at your end point. Some of the ď GermansĒ stalled etc. On our out ride this morning old age caught up again and I forgot to switch off traction control before going up the same gradient! Even with a ď germanĒ stalling in front of me causing me to change line at the last minute, the AT got up! Wonít recommend not switching the TC off, but it was impressive to see how good the bike is under those conditions.
 
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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2019, 09:48:59 pm »
Old topic, but new discovery...

Iím not sure if the TC is different between the DCT and manual bikes; Iím on the manual.

I played with the TC on dirt a handful of times when the bike was still new 2+ years ago, on the stock Dunlop tyres. At that time I came to the conclusion that it was too intrusive even on the lowest setting, and ever since then Iíve always switched it off on dirt. I did an experiment today and I want to revise that opinion. I am on Mitas E07ís now.

On smooth gravel like this, TC1 (one bar, lowest intrusion) works really really well. It allows plenty of slip and plenty of fun.





You can get sideways around corners and still get yourself into trouble if you donít pay attention on TC1. My impression is that it takes the edge ever so slightly off, but letís you have more fun because you donít have to be as cautious of the rear stepping out too far as with TC off in these conditions. I think I will use it a lot more in future.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2019, 02:20:18 am by Boerbok »
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Offline Tommy Transalp

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2019, 05:28:07 am »
All these controls!.... Why can't you just learn to control the power by yourself?.... Makes for a better rider IMHO.  :ricky:
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Offline Dux

Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2019, 03:49:11 pm »
All these controls!.... Why can't you just learn to control the power by yourself?.... Makes for a better rider IMHO.  :ricky:

True  :thumleft:
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Offline DavidMorrisXp

Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2019, 06:55:38 am »
All these controls!.... Why can't you just learn to control the power by yourself?.... Makes for a better rider IMHO.  :ricky:

True  :thumleft:

The bike really is a different animal with traction control off, I and I am sure many others are not skilled enough to ride without TC.  As my skills improve or the situation allows for it, I can reduce the effect of the traction control
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 07:01:10 am by DavidMorrisXp »
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Offline Sandban(g)k

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Re: Traction control- levels of engagement
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2019, 07:14:24 am »
All these controls!.... Why can't you just learn to control the power by yourself?.... Makes for a better rider IMHO.  :ricky:

Dis baie waar, maar die ander kant is waarom sit hulle vir karre ABS en lugsakke in? Pleks die mense leer eerder bestuur... :pot:

Die TC op die Africa Twin is fantasties. As jy n tweede of deerde keer nie teen n klipperige bult kan uitkom in Lesotho nie, en die TV is die verskil of jy in die sneeu slaap of iewers warm, dan is dit die moeite werd.

Of as daar n ou met minder skill as jy saamry en heeltyd sukkel teenoor die nuwe ou kan bietjie lekkerder saamry, confidence bou en nie die groep te veel ophou nie?

Dis baie soos om n pistool te dra. Rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it  :biggrin: