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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2018, 06:32:54 pm »


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Offline Renrew

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E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2018, 07:00:37 pm »
Some members (read member) seem to be slightly confused:

 - Honda AT (NON DCT) is 232kg WET (18.8L of Fuel)
 - KTM 790 ADV R is 205kg WET (20L of Fuel)

AND - That’s with the 790R having 1.2L more fuel!

So relatively speaking, the AT is 28.8kg heavier!!!

Same Power at 70kw, but the 790R is a whopping 27kg less! More importantly, 20L of fuel is sitting 70% lower than the AT. This is colossal chaps.

So if someone says things like “unimpressive, basically the same or the AT still wins”, they’re completely delusional.

Sure if you prefer the look of the AT, the gold forks or the brand, by all means you’re welcome to say you prefer the AT.

But factually comparing them and arriving at the conclusion that the AT is a better bike based on weight, suspension, suspension travel, range and performance is a dead-end argument.

Reliability and dealer support are actually red herrings. Important, sure, but all these bikes are very reliable with decent support.

Then we haven’t even compared ground clearance, seat height, suspension and instrumentation capabilities.


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« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 07:02:28 pm by Renrew »
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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2018, 07:05:21 pm »
Some members (read member) seem to be slightly confused:

 - Honda AT (NON DCT) is 232kg WET (18.8L of Fuel)
 - KTM 790 ADV R is 205kg WET (20L of Fuel)

AND - That’s with the 790R having 1.2L more fuel!

So relatively speaking, the AT is 28.8kg heavier!!!

Same Power at 70kw, but the 790R is a whopping 27kg less! More importantly, 20L of fuel is sitting 70% lower than the AT. This is colossal chaps.

So if someone says things like “unimpressive, basically the same or the AT still wins”, they’re completely delusional.

Sure if you prefer the look of the AT, the gold forks or the brand, by all means you’re welcome to say you prefer the AT.

But factually comparing them and arriving at the conclusion that the AT is a better bike based on weight, suspension, suspension travel, range and performance is a dead-end argument.

Reliability and dealer support are actually red herrings. Important, sure, but all these bikes are very reliable with decent support.

Then we haven’t even compared ground clearance, seat height, suspension and instrumentation capabilities.


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THANK YOU some clear perspective, interestingly nobody has bothered to do the research like you have.
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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2018, 07:22:00 pm »
Nice colours on the AT for 2018

Ummmm 2018? :sip:
When is this "Old enough to know better" supposed to kick in?
 

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2018, 07:26:23 pm »
Some members (read member) seem to be slightly confused:

 - Honda AT (NON DCT) is 232kg WET (18.8L of Fuel)
 - KTM 790 ADV R is 205kg WET (20L of Fuel)

AND - That’s with the 790R having 1.2L more fuel!

So relatively speaking, the AT is 28.8kg heavier!!!

Same Power at 70kw, but the 790R is a whopping 27kg less! More importantly, 20L of fuel is sitting 70% lower than the AT. This is colossal chaps.

So if someone says things like “unimpressive, basically the same or the AT still wins”, they’re completely delusional.

Sure if you prefer the look of the AT, the gold forks or the brand, by all means you’re welcome to say you prefer the AT.

But factually comparing them and arriving at the conclusion that the AT is a better bike based on weight, suspension, suspension travel, range and performance is a dead-end argument.

Reliability and dealer support are actually red herrings. Important, sure, but all these bikes are very reliable with decent support.

Then we haven’t even compared ground clearance, seat height, suspension and instrumentation capabilities.


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THANK YOU some clear perspective, interestingly nobody has bothered to do the research like you have.
hn
Cocky, I hope you are not taking the piss because I agree with you, this KTM configuration could be game changing. 8) Bikes are still fundementaly based on a bicycle with an engine hanging in the frame and a fuel tank on the top frame member. :peepwall:
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 07:29:55 pm by Welsh »
When is this "Old enough to know better" supposed to kick in?
 

Offline XRRX

Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2018, 07:38:11 pm »
Some members (read member) seem to be slightly confused:

 - Honda AT (NON DCT) is 232kg WET (18.8L of Fuel)
 - KTM 790 ADV R is 205kg WET (20L of Fuel)

AND - That’s with the 790R having 1.2L more fuel!

So relatively speaking, the AT is 28.8kg heavier!!!

Same Power at 70kw, but the 790R is a whopping 27kg less! More importantly, 20L of fuel is sitting 70% lower than the AT. This is colossal chaps.

So if someone says things like “unimpressive, basically the same or the AT still wins”, they’re completely delusional.

Sure if you prefer the look of the AT, the gold forks or the brand, by all means you’re welcome to say you prefer the AT.

But factually comparing them and arriving at the conclusion that the AT is a better bike based on weight, suspension, suspension travel, range and performance is a dead-end argument.

Reliability and dealer support are actually red herrings. Important, sure, but all these bikes are very reliable with decent support.

Then we haven’t even compared ground clearance, seat height, suspension and instrumentation capabilities.


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Hook...line & sinker!!!  :biggrin: :lol8: :lol8:

While we're splitting hair here:
Face-lift AT manual is actually 228kg!!
Difference in fuel - 1.1l !
(Wikipedea)
And BTW - it's funny that the 790 and 790R weights the same - given the difference in suspension components!! The R is probably going to be at least 210kg - unless the standard one has got lots of extra stuff that is not standard on the R... and 189 + 20 does not equals 205!  :P

And your statement about KTM's reliability and back-up is just  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
In your defence - you are a city-boy - so maybe you experience KTM a bit different... 
 
Enjoy your Katompies - when they run ... they're your problem...  ;) O0
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 07:42:54 pm by XRRX »
 

Offline Amsterdam

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2018, 07:43:49 pm »
Good to see that KTM has not ditched the 690.  I have done the work for you so we can save 25 pages of debate about the different/same frame.

This is for me ktms best release! :thumleft: @Amsterdam do you have a full pic of the KTM? I can't find anything.

@Fransw - The info is here - https://www.ktm.com/za/travel/690-enduro-r/

Same website gives you info on the 790s and seems to indicate that the 1290R is no more.
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Offline Dux

Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2018, 07:49:53 pm »
Fokkit ouens , give it a rest , so what if one bike is a few kg's heavier or lighter , or a few hp more or less than another , etc,etc,etc ........ each bike out there will have its followers and detractors , it is called freedom of choice , and quite frankly if on a ride the fastest rider will still be in front irrespective of which bike they are riding anyway
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Offline Renrew

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E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2018, 07:55:51 pm »
Let me just leave this here regarding the 2019 Honda AT:







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« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 08:07:34 pm by Renrew »
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Offline Ian Bean

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2018, 07:58:27 pm »
 

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2018, 08:02:31 pm »
Some members (read member) seem to be slightly confused:

 - Honda AT (NON DCT) is 232kg WET (18.8L of Fuel)
 - KTM 790 ADV R is 205kg WET (20L of Fuel)

AND - That’s with the 790R having 1.2L more fuel!

So relatively speaking, the AT is 28.8kg heavier!!!

Same Power at 70kw, but the 790R is a whopping 27kg less! More importantly, 20L of fuel is sitting 70% lower than the AT. This is colossal chaps.

So if someone says things like “unimpressive, basically the same or the AT still wins”, they’re completely delusional.

Sure if you prefer the look of the AT, the gold forks or the brand, by all means you’re welcome to say you prefer the AT.

But factually comparing them and arriving at the conclusion that the AT is a better bike based on weight, suspension, suspension travel, range and performance is a dead-end argument.

Reliability and dealer support are actually red herrings. Important, sure, but all these bikes are very reliable with decent support.

Then we haven’t even compared ground clearance, seat height, suspension and instrumentation capabilities.


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You miss the most important thing for these bikes, for some reason. Reliability.

The KTM will be as unreliable as they have ever been, with the added risk over the first 3 years of buyers having to sort out KTM's lack of product testing.
 

Offline Renrew

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2018, 08:06:53 pm »
Some members (read member) seem to be slightly confused:

 - Honda AT (NON DCT) is 232kg WET (18.8L of Fuel)
 - KTM 790 ADV R is 205kg WET (20L of Fuel)

AND - That’s with the 790R having 1.2L more fuel!

So relatively speaking, the AT is 28.8kg heavier!!!

Same Power at 70kw, but the 790R is a whopping 27kg less! More importantly, 20L of fuel is sitting 70% lower than the AT. This is colossal chaps.

So if someone says things like “unimpressive, basically the same or the AT still wins”, they’re completely delusional.

Sure if you prefer the look of the AT, the gold forks or the brand, by all means you’re welcome to say you prefer the AT.

But factually comparing them and arriving at the conclusion that the AT is a better bike based on weight, suspension, suspension travel, range and performance is a dead-end argument.

Reliability and dealer support are actually red herrings. Important, sure, but all these bikes are very reliable with decent support.

Then we haven’t even compared ground clearance, seat height, suspension and instrumentation capabilities.


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Hook...line & sinker!!!  :biggrin: :lol8: :lol8:

While we're splitting hair here:
Face-lift AT manual is actually 228kg!!
Difference in fuel - 1.1l !
(Wikipedea)
And BTW - it's funny that the 790 and 790R weights the same - given the difference in suspension components!! The R is probably going to be at least 210kg - unless the standard one has got lots of extra stuff that is not standard on the R... and 189 + 20 does not equals 205!  :P

And your statement about KTM's reliability and back-up is just  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
In your defence - you are a city-boy - so maybe you experience KTM a bit different... 
 
Enjoy your Katompies - when they run ... they're your problem...  ;) O0

It’s funny how you make claim with complete confidence all the while being totally oblivious as to your inabilities:

189 + 20 does not equals 205!

Ok let me see if I can explain this in a way that you can understand: 20L of fuel does not weigh 20kg, hence referencing 205kg instead of 209kg. The weight of 1Ll of fuel is ~.71 - .77kg.

So that’s 14.2kg - 15.2kg for 20L of fuel.

189+15.2 is...dumdumduuum 204.2KG’s

As for you other comments about different components and this the 790R should be heavier yada yada yada, all I can do is laugh.

Jys nie lekker nie oompie.

PS - Yes I’m a city boy. And? Is that more relevant than having your facts correct, having had a crapload of bikes and ridden them properly (not talking about dirty tar roads) and more importantly, not owning a delivery bike but claiming to be the oracle on all things non-delivery bike.

Yup that’s what I thought.

Anyway, thought my perspective would be valuable in appreciating what was done with the 790R.





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Offline Bundu

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2018, 08:13:56 pm »
..........
Ok let me see if I can explain this in a way that you can understand: 20L of fuel does not weigh 20kg, hence referencing 205kg instead of 209kg. The weight of 1Ll of fuel is ~.71 - .77kg.

So that’s 14.2kg - 15.2kg for 20L of fuel.

189+15.2 is...dumdumduuum 204.2KG’s......................

ek't gesien hy gooi 1kg/liter petrol  :lol8:
 

Offline Renrew

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2018, 08:14:16 pm »
Some members (read member) seem to be slightly confused:

 - Honda AT (NON DCT) is 232kg WET (18.8L of Fuel)
 - KTM 790 ADV R is 205kg WET (20L of Fuel)

AND - That’s with the 790R having 1.2L more fuel!

So relatively speaking, the AT is 28.8kg heavier!!!

Same Power at 70kw, but the 790R is a whopping 27kg less! More importantly, 20L of fuel is sitting 70% lower than the AT. This is colossal chaps.

So if someone says things like “unimpressive, basically the same or the AT still wins”, they’re completely delusional.

Sure if you prefer the look of the AT, the gold forks or the brand, by all means you’re welcome to say you prefer the AT.

But factually comparing them and arriving at the conclusion that the AT is a better bike based on weight, suspension, suspension travel, range and performance is a dead-end argument.

Reliability and dealer support are actually red herrings. Important, sure, but all these bikes are very reliable with decent support.

Then we haven’t even compared ground clearance, seat height, suspension and instrumentation capabilities.


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You miss the most important thing for these bikes, for some reason. Reliability.

The KTM will be as unreliable as they have ever been, with the added risk over the first 3 years of buyers having to sort out KTM's lack of product testing.

Sure, reliability is very important and yes, your statement is partially true.

KTM’s are not alone in this department of post-launch woes.

BUT, and I have posted about the previously - There is an imbalance wrt how many people buy X bike, go and complain about them, how many of total buyers are happy and the percentage that is relative ito bought and happy vs bought and unhappy.

Also, I know and have been on big trips with many KTM owners and BMW and Honda owners and have seen a comparable average failure rate (including people having issues with their bikes in general) across all brands. Now this does not mean it is true for all samples, obviously!

But your statement holds true, with the exception that the 790R won’t be unreliable because some believe KTM’s are unreliable. Also, the same can be said about a component being unreliable because it’s a new platform. It could, but not necessarily.


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Offline XRRX

Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2018, 08:16:49 pm »
Some members (read member) seem to be slightly confused:

 - Honda AT (NON DCT) is 232kg WET (18.8L of Fuel)
 - KTM 790 ADV R is 205kg WET (20L of Fuel)

AND - That’s with the 790R having 1.2L more fuel!

So relatively speaking, the AT is 28.8kg heavier!!!

Same Power at 70kw, but the 790R is a whopping 27kg less! More importantly, 20L of fuel is sitting 70% lower than the AT. This is colossal chaps.

So if someone says things like “unimpressive, basically the same or the AT still wins”, they’re completely delusional.

Sure if you prefer the look of the AT, the gold forks or the brand, by all means you’re welcome to say you prefer the AT.

But factually comparing them and arriving at the conclusion that the AT is a better bike based on weight, suspension, suspension travel, range and performance is a dead-end argument.

Reliability and dealer support are actually red herrings. Important, sure, but all these bikes are very reliable with decent support.

Then we haven’t even compared ground clearance, seat height, suspension and instrumentation capabilities.


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Hook...line & sinker!!!  :biggrin: :lol8: :lol8:

While we're splitting hair here:
Face-lift AT manual is actually 228kg!!
Difference in fuel - 1.1l !
(Wikipedea)
And BTW - it's funny that the 790 and 790R weights the same - given the difference in suspension components!! The R is probably going to be at least 210kg - unless the standard one has got lots of extra stuff that is not standard on the R... and 189 + 20 does not equals 205!  :P

And your statement about KTM's reliability and back-up is just  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
In your defence - you are a city-boy - so maybe you experience KTM a bit different... 
 
Enjoy your Katompies - when they run ... they're your problem...  ;) O0

It’s funny how you make claim with complete confidence all the while being totally oblivious as to your inabilities:

189 + 20 does not equals 205!

Ok let me see if I can explain this in a way that you can understand: 20L of fuel does not weigh 20kg, hence referencing 205kg instead of 209kg. The weight of 1Ll of fuel is ~.71 - .77kg.

So that’s 14.2kg - 15.2kg for 20L of fuel.

189+15.2 is...dumdumduuum 204.2KG’s

As for you other comments about different components and this the 790R should be heavier yada yada yada, all I can do is laugh.

Jys nie lekker nie oompie.

PS - Yes I’m a city boy. And? Is that more relevant than having your facts correct, having had a crapload of bikes and ridden them properly (not talking about dirty tar roads) and more importantly, not owning a delivery bike but claiming to be the oracle on all things non-delivery bike.

Yup that’s what I thought.

Anyway, thought my perspective would be valuable in appreciating what was done with the 790R.





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 :imaposer: :imaposer: :eek7:

That's ok boy - let it all out!!! Not healthy to keep that amount of crap inside your body ... ;)
 

Offline Altie7deLaan

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2018, 08:22:35 pm »
Why is KTM reliability frequently brought up by members like XRRX that own reliable but boring bikes? :pot:
xl185  cb750f  gsx600f  fz750  gsxr750  cbr600f2  cbr900rr cbr929rr  cbr954rr  vtr1000f  fzr1000exup  650dakkie gsxr1000k4  lc4 supermoto  bandit1200s   project fartblood (fireblade streetfighter)  f800gs 690 kaboem


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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2018, 08:28:05 pm »
Why is KTM reliability frequently brought up by members like XRRX that own reliable but boring bikes? :pot:

Because boring but reliable bikes actually enables you to go out enough to see the kTm's by the roadside. :peepwall: :pot:
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2018, 08:29:29 pm »
I probably got one of the 1st 1190's and then 1290's (both launch models) on this forum and have to say I am still absolutely pleased with my bike :thumleft:

I joined a facebook group for the 1290 in 2015 - it has about 4500 members across the world and based on the negative versus positive posts there, I would imagine 99% of the owners love their 1290's - many coming form BMW, Yamaha, Ducati.

I have not experienced any reliability issues, but even if I had, the bike is such fun to ride, that I think I would live it (had an xt1200z before and it was boring....but also reliable.....but boring..... and life is too short in my view)
 

Offline Renrew

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2018, 09:11:05 pm »
..........
Ok let me see if I can explain this in a way that you can understand: 20L of fuel does not weigh 20kg, hence referencing 205kg instead of 209kg. The weight of 1Ll of fuel is ~.71 - .77kg.

So that’s 14.2kg - 15.2kg for 20L of fuel.

189+15.2 is...dumdumduuum 204.2KG’s......................

ek't gesien hy gooi 1kg/liter petrol  :lol8:

 Ek weet, en met alle vertroue nogal  :lol8:


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Offline Renrew

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Re: E.I.C.M.A. 2018...
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2018, 09:14:30 pm »
Why is KTM reliability frequently brought up by members like XRRX that own reliable but boring bikes? :pot:

Because boring but reliable bikes actually enables you to go out enough to see the kTm's by the roadside. :peepwall: :pot:

Jou aas is goed oud ;)

Jou Husqvarna is n blerrie KTM, Mooier as die oranje een wel, maar steeds n KTM :)

PS - It’s a bit sad that the new 690 only has 250mm and the 701 has 275mm, what’s with KTM and the 690’s suspensions travel commitment issues!!!


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KTM 1190R
KTM 990R
KTM 950R Super Enduro_0km ;)
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