This whole GSC thing!

[hh]

            Interesting debate this. BMW unreliable? That is debatable. Only one thing I am a bit apprehensive about the Beemers are the Engine Management Systems, electronics do give problems. But then I�??ve been at weird and wonderful places with the old Dakie and after 153000km it is still going strong, although it is standing in the garage as a backup for the 800GeenSand. (hie hie hie)
          One thing to remember, BMW is a road bike that were given off-road capabilities while the KTM is an off road bike with road capabilities.
          Regarding Fidel�??s Q: �??Are BMW and their clients not getting ahead of themselves slightly?�?�  My answer to that is �??Know thy limits but, where is your sense of adventure.�??

[Bus]

Mint R 1200 GS to swop for DRZ 400.To make it fair I'll settle for an oldish DRZ...

Good luck with that...

How much you prepared to pay in...?   

[JohnST]

Nah I think the GS is an awesome bike!! My problem is these guys that has never riddin a bike in their life and because of BMW's awesome marketing they go out and by a GS or even worse a GSA. R20k's kit and all of a sudden they are f_cking mean ass adventure riders!! That bites me!! Unfortunately only 20% of all GS owners can ride their bikes properly the rest are sissies!!

 

So you suggest that all newbies into DS biking will rather buy a GS than a KTM? So this suggest that KTM's marketing is up to nothing first of all. How many incidents was at the RR this year? I know of quite a few! :pot:How many mean ass adventure riders on KTM's ended up in hospital at the RR? Unfortunately their was a really sad incident at the GS Challenge, but it could have happened at the RR as well!

So it is not only GS riders that comes into the sport with no precious or very little previous biking experience, but also a lot of KTM riders!

I was not refering to GSC per se, most of those guys can ride or at least is learning. I refering to the other 4.5billion GS riders in Gauteng that can not climb a pavement! 

[shark_za]

I'll bite...

A riding buddy of mine and esteemed forum member has done the Red Route on a 1150 Adv every year WITH a pillion.
The bike is capable if the rider is up to it.

Its not a GSC phenomenon its an all round one. Newbies on bikes not riding all year and saving it all for the "challenge"

Just remember some members didn't want to ride a few 100km to the GM bash on dirt roads because they might hurt their KTM's

Route selection should not be ego driven either, another riding mate went on a 950 and rode RR2 while I know he could do RR1 blindfolded on a 690.

[Fidel]

It is funny that it is always people who do not own BMW's who start sh!t threads like this.

If the same was being done, claiming the KTM 640 to be a commuter/tourer, i would have the same concerns. Again, its about the marketing and business ethics.


I like BMs, and I like most of their owners......i just dont think the perception being created is reasonable.


CloudGaz - the GSC is not a test of machine. Riding from here to a remote African destination with no backup and means of repair is. Even finding yourself stuck in the Kalahari because your ABS doesnt like it, is potentially leathal.

Dont teach the owners that they can go anywhere any time. Teach them that they can do some mild offroad but stay close to a BM service shop.  ....sorry, that came out wrong  .....Tell them that it is a complex and reasonably sensitive piece of equipment.

I don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about.
Maybe do a couple of Google searches on what  ABS is and how it works before posting crap like that.
 

ABS issues/computer issues/eletrical issues in such modern bikes (BMs and KTMs) are often a cause of a bikes standing. This is what i was getting at Popi.

[Plothond]

A riding buddy of mine and esteemed forum member has done the Red Route on a 1150 Adv every year WITH a pillion.
The bike is capable if the rider is up to it.

Ja, but he is a demi-god when it comes to riding a big GS

Just remember some members didn't want to ride a few 100km to the GM bash on dirt roads because they might hurt their KTM's

Ja, but we all knoe he is a sissie

[JohnST]

Just remember some members didn't want to ride a few 100km to the GM bash on dirt roads because they might hurt their KTM's

Ja, but we all knoe he is a sissie


[/quote]

Screw altwee julle pudding eating cowbow hippies!!

[Fidel]

There would always be more casualties and broken bikes at a GS challenge than the KTM rally raid.
And it has nothing to do with either bikes. The average skill at the raid is higher at the GS challenge.

A lot of people who is entering the bike market for the first time knows nothing about bikes.
They all flock to BMW. Because the brand is more widely known than KTM's. And has a much better reputation in the market.
KTM has a big brand following in the biking community. But LOTS of non biking people does not even know what a
KTM is.
That means more newbies will ride BMW's. Thus the ave. skill level is down.
So they will fall more and break the bikes more. This is no reflection on the bike or its abilities.

So once they have broken all the GSs and learnt to ride they go to KTM?  

Just joking..... jire maar julle oens is sensitief. I'm not playing with your girlfriends tits, im talking about bikes here.

I agree that BM draws allot more clients due to their marketing and commercial/brand confidence.



Common LS, we're keeping you honest in keeping you busy  

[Pistonpete]

Impossible but imagine a GSC & RR at the same venue.....would there be time to ride after the exchange of blows or all be to pissed to ride...

[Lito]

Fark. Can you imagine the ego's at THAT place PP..... (cant make it tonight btw)

[Plothond]

Impossible but imagine a GSC & RR at the same venue.....would there be time to ride after the exchange of blows or all be to pissed to ride...

That's called the Wilddog bash

Never moered anyone yet  

[Bus]

There we go PP!!!

Thats actually the best idea yet.

Get everyone together and let them play in the same sandpit. No more bullshittting.

I actually wish Mercedes Benz will also make a 1000cc traillie, then all hell will break loose!!!

[popipants]

Impossible but imagine a GSC & RR at the same venue.....would there be time to ride after the exchange of blows or all be to pissed to ride...

By pissed you mean drunk  

VIVA Bash !!!

[Aicorner]

I ride a BMW and I agree with everything that Fidel says.  BM can never be really good off road with telelever suspension.


But I think the comments about reliability (or lack thereof) and responsible marketing apply equally to KTM (to really be responsible shouldn't there be a proficiency test before the bike are sold or the GSC/RR entries accepsted ?)

[popipants]

There we go PP!!!

Thats actually the best idea yet.

Get everyone together and let them play in the same sandpit. No more bullshittting.

I actually wish Mercedes Benz will also make a 1000cc traillie, then all hell will break loose!!!

But we should all ride our bikes there!!! 

[JourneyMan]

Impossible but imagine a GSC & RR at the same venue.....would there be time to ride after the exchange of blows or all be to pissed to ride...

No blows and not pissed either. (Seriously. Nannies capela whatever)

Ex-Bm riders, current BM riders, new KTM riders, old KTM rider and a Honda. 

All made it.  No one fell off on the day. All had a good time.







But the brand bashing will always be present! 

[popipants]

Wasn't there a Suzuki?

[JourneyMan]

O moer. Sorry. Ja.

Gryshond and his Strom. Not Honda. 

[Fidel]

Very nice JM, that looks befok. Exactly the right spirit.

I guess whoever decides to do this type of ride has got to have the spirit, irrespective the bike and what the manufacturer tells you it can do.

I've had my fun for the morning.  


PP, youve got a fewl idea there. The guys will just have to leave their HelMuts on all weekend. Safety first!

[Pistonpete]

Actually........i was rather thinking along the lines of what brand should start first & against what class