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Author Topic: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem  (Read 1172 times)

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Offline ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2018, 11:21:49 am »
Ok. So this weekend I bought a new battery and fitted a 16mm2 welding cable from the battery to the bolt on the starter motor, as shown by MrT. Kept the old earthing as standard so now have extra earth wires. I left the new battery on charge for a day.
 :ricky: :ricky: Happy chappy, seems the lazy starter syndrome has gone for now. Hope this helps. :3some:
Thanks H my new cable is a old car jumper cable. Getting the two fittings in town this afternoon and then I hope this lazy bike is something of the past!! ;) :thumleft:
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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 11:36:09 am »
100% Mr.T.  Current in must be current out. Earthing is very important. Good advise  :thumleft:

Excellent advise.  I learnt this lesson some years ago when doing some DIY wiring to add a spotlight to the back of a Hilux. 
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Offline Mr.T

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2018, 01:54:09 pm »
Hi Hamilton. Good to hear that this fix has sorted out the starter.
Some good old 101 electrical and we can have a happy camper.

Another electrical sorted out with Silver Surfer (Dean) BMW 1200
The old problem that the boys had with the handlebars twisted to the right and the bike looses total power and the bike can die in the most inopportune time.

The positive cable to the ignition was found to be broken deep inside the harness. A bit of work to get to but sorted once connected and this problem will not come back again.

Another happy camper.


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Offline josh24jones

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2019, 10:27:36 am »
Two possibilities here.

1.  Your battery.  Make sure it is the YTX14-BS, not the 12Ah.  When the last of the aircooled bikes came out, they were fitted with the 12's with a spacer below the battery to lift it up to the same height as that of the earlier model's 14Ah.  If you still have the spacer below your battery, toss it out and fit the correct battery.

2.  The later models had different starters (Bosch IIRC) as opposed to the older Valeo starters.  I have found that while the Valeo starters are very reliable, the Bosch units tend to get sluggish after a while.  This is not helped by the fact that most of the bikes with the Bosch starters also have the smaller 12Ah  batteries.  It has been suggested that the smaller batteries fitted to the later bikes is what causes the starters to get sluggish, but I don't know whether that theory holds much water.

I have 2 or 3 starters here that have all been replaced due to the fact that they are sluggish, so i doubt whether it would be a wiring issue.  Certainly not the relay under the seat.  That will have different symptoms altogether.
Do you by any chance know what was the cause of those starters you have lying around to get sluggish ? i.e is there any parts that stopped working as they should due to wear and tear ? I think a new starter is in order in my case but dont even want to know what BMW is going to ask for one
 

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2019, 01:03:44 pm »
Two possibilities here.

1.  Your battery.  Make sure it is the YTX14-BS, not the 12Ah.  When the last of the aircooled bikes came out, they were fitted with the 12's with a spacer below the battery to lift it up to the same height as that of the earlier model's 14Ah.  If you still have the spacer below your battery, toss it out and fit the correct battery.

2.  The later models had different starters (Bosch IIRC) as opposed to the older Valeo starters.  I have found that while the Valeo starters are very reliable, the Bosch units tend to get sluggish after a while.  This is not helped by the fact that most of the bikes with the Bosch starters also have the smaller 12Ah  batteries.  It has been suggested that the smaller batteries fitted to the later bikes is what causes the starters to get sluggish, but I don't know whether that theory holds much water.

I have 2 or 3 starters here that have all been replaced due to the fact that they are sluggish, so i doubt whether it would be a wiring issue.  Certainly not the relay under the seat.  That will have different symptoms altogether.
Do you by any chance know what was the cause of those starters you have lying around to get sluggish ? i.e is there any parts that stopped working as they should due to wear and tear ? I think a new starter is in order in my case but dont even want to know what BMW is going to ask for one

No idea at all.  I may have a refurbished Valeo in stock.  Will check when I get back to the shop.
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Offline josh24jones

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2019, 06:55:59 am »
Two possibilities here.

1.  Your battery.  Make sure it is the YTX14-BS, not the 12Ah.  When the last of the aircooled bikes came out, they were fitted with the 12's with a spacer below the battery to lift it up to the same height as that of the earlier model's 14Ah.  If you still have the spacer below your battery, toss it out and fit the correct battery.

2.  The later models had different starters (Bosch IIRC) as opposed to the older Valeo starters.  I have found that while the Valeo starters are very reliable, the Bosch units tend to get sluggish after a while.  This is not helped by the fact that most of the bikes with the Bosch starters also have the smaller 12Ah  batteries.  It has been suggested that the smaller batteries fitted to the later bikes is what causes the starters to get sluggish, but I don't know whether that theory holds much water.

I have 2 or 3 starters here that have all been replaced due to the fact that they are sluggish, so i doubt whether it would be a wiring issue.  Certainly not the relay under the seat.  That will have different symptoms altogether.
Do you by any chance know what was the cause of those starters you have lying around to get sluggish ? i.e is there any parts that stopped working as they should due to wear and tear ? I think a new starter is in order in my case but dont even want to know what BMW is going to ask for one

No idea at all.  I may have a refurbished Valeo in stock.  Will check when I get back to the shop.

do you know if there is a difference between the starters on a SOHC and the DOHC ? Reason for asking is because I spoke to the previous owner (who bought it brand new). BMW qouted R11 000 for a new starter. So he went to bike parts online and got a second hand starter from them. No issues with going second hand for me. I have noticed a slight grinding noise on startup as soon as the motor starts firing. Almost as if the motor and the starter are fighting against each other
 

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2019, 07:07:35 am »
Battery Earth is a BIG problem on the older Airheads (R50/60/75/80/90/100)
The cable attaches to a small 6mm bolt that secures the speedo cable drive and acts as vent to the gearbox.
If you under-torque the bolt it makes very poor contact.
If you over-torque the bolt it strips the casing.

I replace this with a longer, thick cable which I attach to the main 8mm bolt between the engine and gearbox.
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Offline josh24jones

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2019, 06:52:31 am »
Just an update on my GSA...

So 2 months ago I sold the bike and let the new owner know about the starter issue. After about a week the starter seized. He then bought a second hand unit and all the problems were solved. Ever since I sold this bike I have not gone to bed with a peaceful heart. I spoke very nice words to the owner and got my bike back last week. One very happy chappy right here
 

Offline Jughead

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2019, 10:45:48 am »
I pulled one of these starters apart this week.

Older models, I think pre 2008 or so, used the Valeo starter.  These suffer from bendix issues, but very little else.  The bendix can be replaced with an aftermarket unit, although the dimensions of the aftermarket bendix are a little different and some precision machining is required.

Later models have the Bosch starter, which is the one I pulled apart.  I found, and this is not the first time, that the brushes appear to be very soft and start crumbling.  This is what the brushes looked like.








The contact area has also spread out to the point where the brushes are making contact with more than one copper strip on the armature head, which IMO is what is causing the sluggish response.  Once the brushes were replaced, starter was good again.  I also replaced the small DU bush in the nose of the starter.

This is the finished product.

« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 10:50:15 am by Jughead »
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Offline Jughead

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2019, 10:57:26 am »
This is where the starter needs to be machined for the new bendix.  The new clutch head is about .75mm larger than the original, so about 1mm is skimmed off the inside of the starter head.  Unfortunately the inside and outside of the head are not concentric, so I have had to make a jig to fit the starter head into before the entire jig is fitted in the lathe.  The jig allows the inside, which is to be skimmed out, to run true.
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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2019, 08:26:13 pm »
Just cleaned and lubed the starter of my 2011 1200 adv. Start as it should now will monitor how it goes. Still have the battery with the spacer fitted its about 2years old now.  Also have an extra earth wire fitted from the battery to the starter.

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2019, 07:46:50 am »
Does it swing over better?
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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2019, 07:50:36 am »
It does swing better and sounds smoother.
I recon that the grease (8years old) becomes hard an cause excessive drag inside the starter.

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Offline Jughead

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2019, 11:59:54 am »
It does swing better and sounds smoother.
I recon that the grease (8years old) becomes hard an cause excessive drag inside the starter.

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What did the brushes look like?
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Online GeenSand

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2019, 12:24:57 pm »
It does swing better and sounds smoother.
I recon that the grease (8years old) becomes hard an cause excessive drag inside the starter.

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What did the brushes look like?
I did not take a close up picture of them but no rough edges and still quite long. I did however clean between the copper strips on the commutator and gave it a slight sand with waterpaper.  Bike on 52000km.


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« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:39:15 pm by GeenSand »
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Offline Hamilton

Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2019, 07:37:50 am »
Hi Hamilton. Good to hear that this fix has sorted out the starter.
Some good old 101 electrical and we can have a happy camper.

Another electrical sorted out with Silver Surfer (Dean) BMW 1200
The old problem that the boys had with the handlebars twisted to the right and the bike looses total power and the bike can die in the most inopportune time.

The positive cable to the ignition was found to be broken deep inside the harness. A bit of work to get to but sorted once connected and this problem will not come back again.

Another happy camper.
Hi Mr T. Have a look at my thread on the exact same thing that happened a week or two back.
 

Offline Boersoeknbike

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Re: 2012 GS1200 lazy starter problem
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2019, 08:35:36 pm »
Must Do!!!  Put extra earth cable as discussed earlier in post asap!!
Being mechanically inclined i believed not the thread but had the starter redone 3 times last six months by same guy that i really do trust.. reason is it only struggles when engine is hot! So my reasoning was it must be the starter bendix! WRONG! (This after coming down after being towstarted and rope wrap around frontwheel) and final shit was when a young guy nearly burned the bike out after keeping the happybutton in, starter locked up, battery boiling out all the acid.  I took the starter out to have it looked at, a 4th time. But after 3 days i decided to test it first on bench with woodblock and it worked fine,( was slow at first because of lockup) refitted it normally, but again locked up on trying first time. Went and build extra earthcable and Voila!! All my woes are gone..turns over much faster even when engine is hot.

So please spare yourself heartache and just do it. Mine 2006 GSA
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 08:28:40 pm by Boersoeknbike »
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