Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: DAKAR 2019 !!!  (Read 18376 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BLK

Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2018, 11:39:07 am »
Hopefully Dakar will be back in Africa 2020

It must never come back to Africa.Africa had a chance and stuffed it up.Africa is not deserving of anything.
 
The following users thanked this post: Tony the Boney

Offline Tony the Boney

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 1,690
  • Thanked: 40 times
  • Threw away the key and locked the door
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2018, 12:03:57 pm »
This is  good  :sip:
The older I get, the earlier it gets late
 

Offline MaxThePanda

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Vespa (all models)
    Location: Western Cape
  • Posts: 2,153
  • Thanked: 18 times
  • As in 'Even more Panda'. Also likes sharks.
    • Team 525
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2018, 12:29:55 pm »
If I could choose any two boys from our Offroad series who would do well at Dakar its Ross and Kenny G.
Would I be jinxing it to expect top 10 from both of them ?

I donít want to sound non-patriotic, but Iíd say thereís zero chance of that. If either of them cracks top30 Iíd say itís a hell of an achievement, and thatís a loooooong way off the top 10!

Offline sidetrack

  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 11,751
  • Thanked: 240 times
  • Beware the 250 roost !
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2018, 01:56:12 pm »
Hopefully Dakar will be back in Africa 2020

It must never come back to Africa.Africa had a chance and stuffed it up.Africa is not deserving of anything.
Africa eco race has been going for about 5 or 6 years now without any issue, still the original home of Dakar.
Little by little, one travels far

J.R.R Tolkien
Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Online Kortbroek

Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2018, 02:39:59 pm »
Hopefully Dakar will be back in Africa 2020

It must never come back to Africa.Africa had a chance and stuffed it up.Africa is not deserving of anything.

Great comment. Such a meaningful contribution to this thread  :thumleft:
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Online Kortbroek

Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2018, 02:46:45 pm »
I'm sure I've said it before and I'll day it again, the Honda rally bikes are damn sexy  :drif:  (Ignoring the breadtin where they pack lunch of course  :lol8: )



Less than a month to go  :ricky:

And of course a pic of the flying princess Laia
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline gmac

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 542
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2018, 03:49:08 pm »
If I could choose any two boys from our Offroad series who would do well at Dakar its Ross and Kenny G.
Would I be jinxing it to expect top 10 from both of them ?

I donít want to sound non-patriotic, but Iíd say thereís zero chance of that. If either of them cracks top30 Iíd say itís a hell of an achievement, and thatís a loooooong way off the top 10!

Iíd say Ross has the ability, fitness and straight up speed to make top 20 but to do it in on his first attempt he would need a few ďluckyĒ breaks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Offline BiG DoM

  • A Grahamstown Greyhound!
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS HP2
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 17,604
  • Thanked: 218 times
  • License Plates: GSpot EC and HUSKY EC
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2018, 05:14:02 pm »
If I could choose any two boys from our Offroad series who would do well at Dakar its Ross and Kenny G.
Would I be jinxing it to expect top 10 from both of them ?

I donít want to sound non-patriotic, but Iíd say thereís zero chance of that. If either of them cracks top30 Iíd say itís a hell of an achievement, and thatís a loooooong way off the top 10!

Iíd say Ross has the ability, fitness and straight up speed to make top 20 but to do it in on his first attempt he would need a few ďluckyĒ breaks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dakar is often about all these things and more ... lets not forget NAVIGATION. The harder you work . the luckier you get. Unfortunately the truth is to run with the top professionals and factory teams is near impossible. 
"Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle" - Hunter S. Thompson

Scoots: BMW HP2  Husky 701 Husky  TE610E  BMW G450X  KTM 250XCW  BMW R100S YAMAHA BWS 

 :ricky:
 

Offline Hondsekierie

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 950 SE
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 4,528
  • Thanked: 30 times
  • Away we go!!! Bikes: 690RFR, 950SE, 990Adv
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2018, 09:55:05 pm »
The Top 10 is in a different league altogether and more so the Top 5.  Our guys will do brilliant if they can just keep up with Laia (said with ultimate respect to all parties) and she herself really needs huge luck to get close to the Top 10.

It seems Dakar might come back to Africa at some stage but from the little bit I heard all intentions are to take it back to Northern Africa, not to our parts.  It just makes so much more sense, especially logistically, for the Dakar organizers to stay as close as possible to Europe.  I would have loved to see it come through our neck of the woods, but who knows, maybe they include us after all....   
ďThere is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore,
There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep Sea, and music in its roar:
I love not Man the less, but Nature more"
 

Offline gmac

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 542
  • Thanked: 22 times
DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2018, 10:18:21 pm »
I still canít understand how Laia is so fast - Iím not disrespecting  women at all but surely our boys can easily run that pace if their navigation is up there - am I wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 10:19:47 pm by gmac »
 

Offline gmac

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 542
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2018, 10:21:48 pm »
Maybe ďeasily run that paceĒ is not the correct wording


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Online Kortbroek

Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2018, 10:58:31 pm »
A good example would be compare Lyndon Poskitt's pace in the Kalahari Rally to our local riders. Then compare Lyndon to the top Dakar guys and Lyndon is by no means slow. They really are just in a complete different league.

Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline Xpat

Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2018, 11:42:11 pm »
A good example would be compare Lyndon Poskitt's pace in the Kalahari Rally to our local riders. Then compare Lyndon to the top Dakar guys and Lyndon is by no means slow. They really are just in a complete different league.

Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

But why? I've been wondering about this for a while since I started following Dakar few years back.

As a foreigner - Czech or rather Czechoslovakian (half Czech, half Slovak) I cannot help but compare to those countries, specifically Slovakia (though Czech also did significantly better than Saffers in those years), and cannot wrap my head around the discrepancy. Slovakia is small country of 5 million people (i.e. roughly the population of whites in SA, which is the demographic primarily interested in Dakar), and while its heavily mountainious and forrested, the hunting & conservaation lobby pushed into the law that riding offroad is a criminal offence (I'm serious - not demeanor, criminal offence). There are few motocross tracks available, but that is about it. No sand worth mentioning and forget about any navigation. And motorcycling, let alone dirt riding is of marginal interest at best. And as such Slovak riders have exactly 0 marketing potential for big mfg teams (despite regular top 10 results) so they ride for local teams. Yes, Slovakia is on average significantly richer country than SA, but if compared only to the white demographic subset relevant for Dakar competition, it may be on par, or even poorer.

And yet in those years, they had regularly two people in top 10 - though admitedly the same 2 - Stefan Svitko (his best placement was second) and Ivan Jakes (his best was 4th).

In comparison, SA has almost unlimited potential for riding similar to Dakar, number of rallies in available in those years such as Amageze or Kalahari rally allowing one to sharpen their navigation skills, some of the top races in the world ROA (though admitedly that is different category) and very lively offroad/enduro scene (again in comparison to SVK). And yet - with exception of Alfie Cox who I believe achieved the best SA result (second) - other riders seem to came way short on Dakar. I'm not talking malle moto guys and amateurs who just do it to finish , but some of the top competitive SA guys like Daryl Curtis and - heck with a bit of hyperboly - even naturalised Saffer Chris Birch, and they usually come short even of top 20.

What's happening here, why are SA guys coming so short in comparison? Now sure, maybe those Slovaks are just aberration (there are no Slovak followers on the horizon and once these two retire, there may be bugger-all), but even Czechs seem to be better than SA guys.

Offline Xpat

Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2018, 11:46:06 pm »
That said, Americans with probably the biggest offroad scene in the world and famous Baja every year, cannot seem to be able to get good placement either, so go figure...

Offline BlueBull2007

  • Caribbean
  • Global Moderator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 10,295
  • Thanked: 306 times
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2018, 06:07:34 am »
Chris Birch and Darryl both did the Dakar in 2012 for the first time. They came 27th and 22nd respectively overall, which is pretty amazing all things considered. I can't remember now if Darryl did it again -I think not- and Chris definitely did not do it again. Speaking to Chris a day or two after the finish he and Darryl were both of the opinion that the race was way too fast and dangerous compared to what they were used to. Birchy broke his ankle but still finished and Darryl hurt his spine.

Unless you have factory support you're going to really battle to get into the top 25. We may have the terrain but its the endurance of the event that also takes its toll. There are just so many things that can go wrong, and not just for the rider. Have you seen what the mechanics look like at the end of the rally? They hardly sleep. The factory teams have organized around this - everyone sleeps in a hotel or air-conditioned cabin. The factory mechanics have days off while others come in and fill in for the main guys from time to time (because they are traveling when they are not working and need to rest). So in my view its the whole organization, the experience of the teams and then the super-human abilities of the athletes. Other teams, even well organised ones don't have this luxury and it results in more mechanical problems. All these things contribute to the snowball. Plus the fact that unless you are an elite rider, even if you are really fast you have to fight it out in the dust for the first four days just to get into the top 40 or 50.

When we look at event like Ertzberg or Dutch Beach race, you will see 500-1000 entrants, of which the top 50 are really good, fast riders. The Dakar, is a global event which has the best riders from over 123 countries, so the level of racing is way, way above the average enduro, rally or offroad event. Basically 75% of the field are race winners somewhere.

I was lucky enough to spend 10 days racing in a WRC class event with Marc Coma, Ze Helio, Kuba Pryzgonski among others. The speeds these guys do is something to behold, especially through the twisty stuff.  Our guys are as fast but there are very few who are able to maintain these speeds for days on end, without losing concentration. Its a bit like golf that way. All the factory guys do the whole NPO / WRC circuit, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Maroc, Tunisia, etc. and this also gets them into the groove as well. They're used to the space of racing off a road book, and the race to the road book, not to the conditions. 

This is why Svitco and others do so well. They don't have the riding in Slovakia maybe but neither to the French or the Spanish for that matter. Not for rallies. But because they have been doing it for so long, because they are really talented, and can read a road book while doing 160k/hr - and ride to it- they will beat our local boys hands down every time until they too invest the time in practicing it, racing a number of other rally events, getting their navigation right and ensuring they have a world-class backup & support crew if not factory support.

Toby Price is a great example. He is super fast in the outback, but took a couple of years to get up there in the Dakar. He really committed, got the factory support, did a number of other rallies, rode with the best and learnt fast. Now he is one of the best in the world. So it is possible with our guys too if they can be noticed. They just have to really want to.

I would like to think someone like Wade Young could be a Dakar winner in time to come. He needs a couple more years though, because the younger guys tend to push the limits too much and crash more easily.
Rally nut. What could possibly go wrong?
Living the Rally Dream - Ride Report
Current bike: KTM 350 EXC   Previous bikes:  2010 WR450F, 2006 KTM450EXC,KTM 450RR, BMW800GS, KTM450EXC, BMW650 GS, BMW650 Dakar, and Honda XR250
 
The following users thanked this post: wiledog_X

Offline BiG DoM

  • A Grahamstown Greyhound!
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS HP2
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 17,604
  • Thanked: 218 times
  • License Plates: GSpot EC and HUSKY EC
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2018, 06:36:16 am »
You cannot compare European access to rallye to that at the tip of Africa. Geopolitics plays a role. I am not surprised there have not been more Saffers in the sport. No Amageza or Kalahari is enough to blood riders, and especially youngsters, to the sport - never mind the cost of the sport for one or two events a year. The cost to go race rallye is seriously expensive, and especially for us in the rest of the world is quite prohibitive. Ask those who have done it with some success and not been able to return to build on their experience (Curtis, Riaan etc), simply due to finance. You will also find more training, intermediate events, TV coverage, access to sponsorship, team support etc on the other side of the pond. There are also many other contributing influences. Now here in SA enduro and MX competition is tough enough financially (esp on national circuit where you have to travel big distances) yet we still have some of the worlds top riders who can compete with the best in the world IF GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY. And this is the crunch - there are many talented riders who do not have the access to sponsorship or personal financial resources to go race competitively, and yes especially abroad. We have been good at getting our youngsters into the sport to keep it alive and grow it, but frustrations remain for those who are ambitious.
"Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle" - Hunter S. Thompson

Scoots: BMW HP2  Husky 701 Husky  TE610E  BMW G450X  KTM 250XCW  BMW R100S YAMAHA BWS 

 :ricky:
 
The following users thanked this post: Beserker

Offline BlueBull2007

  • Caribbean
  • Global Moderator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 10,295
  • Thanked: 306 times
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2018, 06:48:05 am »
Thanks another great point, Dominic :thumleft:
Rally nut. What could possibly go wrong?
Living the Rally Dream - Ride Report
Current bike: KTM 350 EXC   Previous bikes:  2010 WR450F, 2006 KTM450EXC,KTM 450RR, BMW800GS, KTM450EXC, BMW650 GS, BMW650 Dakar, and Honda XR250
 

Offline Xpat

Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #77 on: December 14, 2018, 06:59:07 am »
I don't know - I do not see a bullet-proof case in your responses BB and BD - especially if compared to Slovakia, which is as I described financially and riding wise on par or worse than RSA :peepwall: ;)

BB - nothing personal, just in the spirit of enthusiast discussion - I think some of your points just don't seem to hold water, at least with regards to Svitko and Jaks:
- None of the Slovaks has factory support that you quote to be requirement for Top 25. They ride for Slovak or Czech teams, and actually Saffers are welcome to join those teams as did almost all Americans riding year or two ago (mostly because naturalized american Petr Vlcek is Czech by origin)
- French and Spanish (and Portuguese) have incomparably better training opportunities than Slovaks - Morocco is just short hop across a pond.
- I think we will both agree that Svitko (and Jakes) cannot navigate for shit - they got lucky with those best positions (Svitko basically in the year when Dakar was just WRC). Yet they still manage to get quite reliably to Top 10 almost every year.
- your Toby Price example is quite baffling to me as he seems exact opposite of what you seems to have said. The guy finished 3rd on his very first Dakar (when both aliens were still in play) and win his second one. If that is taking time to get up there in Dakar, sign me up  :)
- I wish Wade Young all the best, but I believe the extreme enduro background is not the right one for Dakar (and yes I have myself used misleadingly ROA as an example in my post). Otherwise there would be Jarvises and others dominating the podium by now.

Now where I agree with you (if I understand you correctly) is that Saffer lack of top placements is result of lack of international exposure and staying power (i.e. repeated Dakar entries by competitors). Both Svitko and Jakes are some kind of Euro enduro champions, so they meet and compete with some of the people they meet in Dakar regularly (though not necessarily in rally), and therefore probably do not get the same stage fright, somebody who never met those people and only heard tall stories about them in media, might get. Also - and probably more importantly - they have by now many Dakars under the belt (both finished and unfinished) and there is probably no substitute for the real experience. This is where I think Saffers come short IMO - they all just pop in kind of like ticking box on bucketlist and then disappear. Wonder why that is - I understand the financial angle raised, but those Slovaks face the same if not bigger struggles in securing financing as that sport is irrelevant and marginal in SVK, and yet they still keep coming back.

I wasn't dissing Darryl or Chris - of course those results are great for a first start (though not as good as Tobys  ;) - just pulling your leg). But what surprised me was that they never came back and the silence that followed afterwards. It almost felt like they were a bit shell shocked by the whole experience and woved never come back. I would think that they had big enough names to be able to secure financing for another try - but maybe I'm just naive.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 07:00:48 am by Xpat »
 

Offline Xpat

Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #78 on: December 14, 2018, 07:07:13 am »
And one more thing - any South African has much higher global marketing potential than any of the two Slovaks (none of which even squeeks English sadly), just by the virtute of the fact that they speak English. They have much much better chances to get watercarrier factory job than any of those Slovaks because of that. Also, in the globalized world Saffers are considered part of anglo world and hence adapted much more easily by spectators, that Slovaks, name of which after all those years and top 10 finishes even veteran like you BB cannot spell correctly  :imaposer:

Offline shark_za

  • Old Boys Club
  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Bike: KTM 1190 Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 745
  • Thanked: 45 times
  • KTM 300
Re: DAKAR 2019 !!!
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2018, 07:24:40 am »
Comparing Ross and Kenny to Darryl and Chris Birch is like comparing a BMW M5 to a Hilux. 
Even Riaan V Niekerk was a lot faster than them.

While Kenny does well at Enduros he EXCELS in the fast stuff on big bikes (450)
The Kalahari Ferrari is even faster these days.
Keep up with Ms Saintz?,  she will be behind Kenny and Ross. Even as privateers.