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Offline COLES

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Ping of engine
« on: January 18, 2019, 02:31:00 pm »
Hello Dogs Am I the only person that ones a 2018 GSA 1200 that pings. The bike has just over 5000 km on and has been back to the dealer twice but the problem persists.

Reminds me of my rally cars that had to higher compression ratio and the fuel (pump) was just not good enough and had to use 102 jet fuel. 


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Offline Brucet

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2019, 03:34:17 pm »
My late 2017 also did it. I have replaced the headers with Akrapovic ones (effectively removing the cat) and my bike no longer pings/suffered with detonation.
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Offline BuRP

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2019, 08:29:09 pm »
Try using spark plugs that are one (1 !) degree/grade warmer/hotter?
This in effect increasing the the volume of the combustion chamber by a minute amount, it may just do the trick.
Do not go 2 degrees higher!
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Offline EssBee

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2019, 11:36:14 am »
I experience it a lot riding two up and the going gets a little rough, powering out of slow corners for instance when the revs are pretty low.
 

Offline Brucet

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2019, 11:39:52 am »
Im not expert but I would say change up a gear then.
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Offline BuRP

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 12:50:00 pm »
Im not expert but I would say change up a gear then.

I'm no expert either but ehh, I'd say it's better to change a gear down?
 :P
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Offline TheBear

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 12:50:43 pm »
I do experience a bit of ping when really hot.  About 34 degrees upward.

I grew up in the era of distributors, point,condensors, etc. so I just change one gear down, or relax on the throttle a tad.
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Online Ouman

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 12:55:43 pm »
I had a similar problem on my 2014 GS. Turned out to be the throttle bodies that were out of sync! A spell on the laptop sorted it.
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Offline Snafu

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 01:20:02 pm »
I am not sure about the LC's, but the old boxers are all running lean below 3000rpm

Is there a booster plug available for the LC's ?

Here is 33 pages of pinging for you :)
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=49103.0
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2019, 09:04:26 am »
Most likely your cam timing that is out.

The important thing when adjusting them is to put the correct tension on the chain to simulate what the tension would be while the motor is running.  Most of the LC's I have serviced have had cams that were out.  Strange thing is that on most of them the left cylinder was further out than the right.
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Offline Brucet

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2019, 09:15:22 am »
Im not expert but I would say change up a gear then.

I'm no expert either but ehh, I'd say it's better to change a gear down?
 :P

100%....appologies thats what I meant. duh!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 09:16:49 am by Brucet »
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Offline OomD

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2019, 11:27:56 am »
Most likely your cam timing that is out.

The important thing when adjusting them is to put the correct tension on the chain to simulate what the tension would be while the motor is running.  Most of the LC's I have serviced have had cams that were out.  Strange thing is that on most of them the left cylinder was further out than the right.
How on earth does the CAM timing go out between service intervals?
 

Offline Jughead

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2019, 12:35:50 pm »
Most likely your cam timing that is out.

The important thing when adjusting them is to put the correct tension on the chain to simulate what the tension would be while the motor is running.  Most of the LC's I have serviced have had cams that were out.  Strange thing is that on most of them the left cylinder was further out than the right.
How on earth does the CAM timing go out between service intervals?

No idea.  These cams are gear driven and the gear is not locked onto the end of the cam with a locator pin like the older models.  So if you loosen the bolt, you can rotate the cam to anywhere you want it and tighten it in that position again.
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Offline BuRP

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2019, 12:51:28 pm »
These cams are gear driven and the gear is not locked onto the end of the cam with a locator pin like the older models.  So if you loosen the bolt, you can rotate the cam to anywhere you want it and tighten it in that position again.

Quite frankly, and I'll skip the "my dear" bit lol, I don't believe that!
If no pin or key is used then it will be a taper fit - which, by simply loosening the bolt, will still stick like hell, hence will require a press of sharp rap or the like to get loose.
Show me a pic if I'm wrong, I am more than prepared to eat humblepie... but like you say a simple bolt will not hold any camshaft timing!


Waiting with baited breath....  :P
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 12:52:00 pm by BuRP »
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Offline TheBear

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2019, 01:11:06 pm »
Most likely your cam timing that is out.

The important thing when adjusting them is to put the correct tension on the chain to simulate what the tension would be while the motor is running.  Most of the LC's I have serviced have had cams that were out.  Strange thing is that on most of them the left cylinder was further out than the right.
How on earth does the CAM timing go out between service intervals?

No idea.  These cams are gear driven and the gear is not locked onto the end of the cam with a locator pin like the older models.  So if you loosen the bolt, you can rotate the cam to anywhere you want it and tighten it in that position again.

Hard to believe, but if correct, that would explain why cam timing would go out regularly.  There is no way to tighten that bolt to completely prevent slippage .... or, is there? 

« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 01:12:04 pm by TheBear »
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2019, 01:12:36 pm »
These cams are gear driven and the gear is not locked onto the end of the cam with a locator pin like the older models.  So if you loosen the bolt, you can rotate the cam to anywhere you want it and tighten it in that position again.

Quite frankly, and I'll skip the "my dear" bit lol, I don't believe that!
If no pin or key is used then it will be a taper fit - which, by simply loosening the bolt, will still stick like hell, hence will require a press of sharp rap or the like to get loose.
Show me a pic if I'm wrong, I am more than prepared to eat humblepie... but like you say a simple bolt will not hold any camshaft timing!


Waiting with baited breath....  :P

"Quite frankly", I'm not about to dismantle a client's bike to prove you wrong.  If you have ever worked on one of these bikes you would know better.
I came here to drink milk and kick arse!  And i've just finished my milk.
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Offline BuRP

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2019, 01:37:35 pm »
Jughead,

with pics I had the below in mind - and Yes, I'm eating humblepie now: Excuse me Sir, I am wrong and you are right!

Bolt 6 says it all, not even a thick plate to increase the friction surface - and I'll take your work now that no conical fit is present.
No wonder they run out, I call that a shoddy connection for an inherently intermittent load & direction connection, in fact it surprises me it works!
No locking fluid prescribed between shaft & gear when assembling it?
Sparta MC50, 46 other 50cc's, Garelli Tiger Cross, Jawa 250, Kawasaki S1 250/3, S2 350/3, H1 500/3, H2 750/3, Suzuki GT380/3 - 10 year gap - KDX200, BMW 1150GS Adventure, Honda CBR600RR, Honda XR650R 2007 & 2003, Honda CRF230, Yamaha BWS100, BMW F800GS Adventure, Husqvarna 701 Enduro, KTM 790 Adv R, KTM 2020 XC-W TPI 300 Six Days, KTM 790 Adv R Rally ordered
 

Offline TheBear

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2019, 02:32:35 pm »
Jughead,

with pics I had the below in mind - and Yes, I'm eating humblepie now: Excuse me Sir, I am wrong and you are right!

Bolt 6 says it all, not even a thick plate to increase the friction surface - and I'll take your work now that no conical fit is present.
No wonder they run out, I call that a shoddy connection for an inherently intermittent load & direction connection, in fact it surprises me it works!
No locking fluid prescribed between shaft & gear when assembling it?

Yeah well, my mouth is hanging open.  I am no engineer, nor a mechanic, but from years and years of maplotter experience of making stuff the MacGyver way, I can just not see that work well.   :eek7:
.#BRADICAL!
 

Offline OomD

Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2019, 03:20:44 pm »
Holy moly! I have never seen such an assembly before. No gudgeon pin, no keyed mating, nothing!

Kan jy dit nou oorvertel!

Off course, if that bolt works loose at the wrong time it's goodbye pistons, etc! This just does not compute! Is there any kind of limit to the range of motion of that cam gear onto the shaft?

Edit: And, is there any kind of guide or indication of alignment if you took it apart, and want to reassemble?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 03:22:21 pm by OomD »
 

Offline SuperDavexlv750r

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Re: Ping of engine
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2019, 04:04:39 pm »
If I am seeing correctly - it is a kak design.
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