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Author Topic: What is it with KTM?  (Read 1271 times)

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Offline Rickus

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Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2019, 04:45:54 pm »
I have been riding KTM for a very long time, and I don't feel like I'm in a model void at all....am I supposed to be pissed off about this as well?  :peepwall:


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Offline boland

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Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2019, 08:12:18 pm »
KTM seem to be on a mission of continues improvement/advancement and they are not afraid to make big changes to achieve it We should all be thankful at least one manufacturer is doing it.

You should get a Suzuki TS185. You can still buy the same model new as my ‘81 new today :laughing4:
 

Online Weedkiller - Adie

Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2019, 08:30:08 pm »


European's leading motorbike maker, KTM, booked record profits last year as it lifted sales and expanded its market share, according to preliminary figures obtained by AFP on Tuesday.

KTM, based in Mattighofen close to the German border, said its net profit climbed by 28 percent to 108 million euros ($124 million) in 2018 as unit sales jumped by 10 percent to 261,454 motorcycles.

Turnover edged up by two percent to 1.56 billion euros.

And the group, whose brands include KTM and Husqvarna, said its market share grew to 11.7 percent from 8.9 percent.

KTM said it is targeting annual sales of 400,000 units by 2022, which would represent an increase of 50 percent over the 2018 figures, with growth coming from emerging economies such as India.


Not sure KTM is too worried about poor marketing strategies........... ;)

Although 100% correct the sales are mainly driven by the Duke range that sells by the truckload in the east. It just shows that the profit on the expensive Europe models cant match the low profit volumes.  KTM was first to REALLY see the benefit of the MASS MARKET.

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Offline Offshore

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Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2019, 09:19:23 pm »
Correct Adie, one must not discard that the Bad Ass Image that was created by Hi Tech, Expensive Bikes in the First World has paved the way......every Youngster East or West wants this image, even if it is a KTM 49 AAAAAAAAAGGGGH or Duke. :ricky:
 

Offline Xpat

Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2019, 09:42:26 pm »


European's leading motorbike maker, KTM, booked record profits last year as it lifted sales and expanded its market share, according to preliminary figures obtained by AFP on Tuesday.

KTM, based in Mattighofen close to the German border, said its net profit climbed by 28 percent to 108 million euros ($124 million) in 2018 as unit sales jumped by 10 percent to 261,454 motorcycles.

Turnover edged up by two percent to 1.56 billion euros.

And the group, whose brands include KTM and Husqvarna, said its market share grew to 11.7 percent from 8.9 percent.

KTM said it is targeting annual sales of 400,000 units by 2022, which would represent an increase of 50 percent over the 2018 figures, with growth coming from emerging economies such as India.


Not sure KTM is too worried about poor marketing strategies........... ;)

Although 100% correct the sales are mainly driven by the Duke range that sells by the truckload in the east. It just shows that the profit on the expensive Europe models cant match the low profit volumes.  KTM was first to REALLY see the benefit of the MASS MARKET.

Adie

Not sure about that really - as far as I know Honda sells about 12 million bikes a year, and we can all guess what little fraction of those are actually bikes sold in the west. They (and other Jap manufacturers) were doing this for decades. That is what makes up bulk of their volumes, Indonesian farmer bikes, not modern western bikes used for leisure. I'm sure profit margins are going to be split a bit more evenly, but probably still in favour of the mass markets (that is IMO why Honda (and to an extent Yamaha) doesn't seem to really care for western customers much as far as I can see in their lineup - definitely much less than Euros).

Your comment about KTM being the pioneer in the third world is valid if you are looking only on Euro manufacturers. And I for one look at this trend with great optimism, as it promises to bring to the market plethorea of well priced smaller displacement and lighter bikes that would be very suited for my kind of riding (there are rumours already of 500 twin in the works, and lets see if they can make long rumoured but yet to be seen 390 adventure). What I like about KTM approach in particular is that they approach India and other 3rd world markets with premium products aimed at their growing middle class, unlike japs who just produce utilitarian vehicles for the mostly poor. This IMO gives them great cross selling potential for the western markets (unlike simplistic bare bones jap bikes sold there, which are more or less un-sellable here).

Growing developing markets give some hope for future of motorcycling, which in the west is being slowly dying because of unhealthy low levels of testosterone, draconian regulations, and the whole defeatist attitude of the west that doesn't gel well with the outgoing risk taking nature of motorcycling.

Now what the above has to do with the topic of this thread - i.e. supposed variety of KTM models (they are really just 2 models as far as I can see - 950/990 and the new BMW class - 1090/1290) - I don't know, I just felt compelled to reply  :peepwall:  :imaposer:

Offline Jacobsroodt

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Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2019, 10:34:03 am »
This article supports my thoughts:

The bike no one is asking for: A bigger, more powerful KTM 1090 Adventure R
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/the-bike-no-one-is-asking-for-a-bigger-more-powerful-ktm-1090-adventure-r
According to the UK-based publication, MCN, KTM is planning to update the 1090 Adventure R.  The new bike will feature a larger, more powerful engine, along with updated electronics. Which leads me to my main thought: What the hell for?

For those who are unfamiliar, KTM recently discontinued the 1190 Adventure R, replacing it with two models. The first was the more powerful, 160-horsepower, 1290 Super Adventure R. The second was the 1090 Adventure R, which features a 1050 cc engine that makes 125 horsepower. The 1290 received additional creature comforts like electronic cruise control, an IMU for cornering ABS, and a TFT dash for folks looking for additional long-haul features whereas the 1090 was essentially pared back to focus more on the off-road contingent.

According to MCN’s reporting, they’re expecting to see a displacement bump up to 1150 cc with peak horsepower hitting somewhere in the mid-130s. If that is true, I go back to my original question: Why? Who is asking for this bike?

it will still sit below the 1290 Super Adventure R and above the 790 Adventure R. And if this 790 is everything we're expecting it to be, the off-road crowd is still going to gravitate toward that bike. And for those who are on a crusade for more power? Well, they aren't going to be satiated with 10 measly ponies, no way. They'll need that 1290 Super Adventure R. So you’ve just dumped a lot of money and time into reengineering a bike that most people are going to view in the exact the same light.

The thing is, I have actually yet to meet someone who is riding a 1090 off-road who will tell you they need more power.
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Offline Xpat

Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2019, 10:53:39 am »
This article supports my thoughts:

The bike no one is asking for: A bigger, more powerful KTM 1090 Adventure R
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/the-bike-no-one-is-asking-for-a-bigger-more-powerful-ktm-1090-adventure-r
According to the UK-based publication, MCN, KTM is planning to update the 1090 Adventure R.  The new bike will feature a larger, more powerful engine, along with updated electronics. Which leads me to my main thought: What the hell for?

For those who are unfamiliar, KTM recently discontinued the 1190 Adventure R, replacing it with two models. The first was the more powerful, 160-horsepower, 1290 Super Adventure R. The second was the 1090 Adventure R, which features a 1050 cc engine that makes 125 horsepower. The 1290 received additional creature comforts like electronic cruise control, an IMU for cornering ABS, and a TFT dash for folks looking for additional long-haul features whereas the 1090 was essentially pared back to focus more on the off-road contingent.

According to MCN’s reporting, they’re expecting to see a displacement bump up to 1150 cc with peak horsepower hitting somewhere in the mid-130s. If that is true, I go back to my original question: Why? Who is asking for this bike?

it will still sit below the 1290 Super Adventure R and above the 790 Adventure R. And if this 790 is everything we're expecting it to be, the off-road crowd is still going to gravitate toward that bike. And for those who are on a crusade for more power? Well, they aren't going to be satiated with 10 measly ponies, no way. They'll need that 1290 Super Adventure R. So you’ve just dumped a lot of money and time into reengineering a bike that most people are going to view in the exact the same light.

The thing is, I have actually yet to meet someone who is riding a 1090 off-road who will tell you they need more power.

I really don't understand what you are really trying to figure out. Do you find the main competitor - GS to be more transparent? And if so why? They have original GS1200, then there was that twin cam (or whatever it was) GS1200, then there is LC GS 1200 and now there is GS1250. Who needs/wants 1250? Whoever is going to buy it. Same for these KTMs.

If you by any chance consider those BMW bikes being just GS, then all those KTM models are also the same model just with different name printed on them if that helps you.

As said before, KTM is doing very well financially, and they have overtaken BMW as the biggest Euro manufacturer long time ago. So I guess they are just doing whatever they believe will enable them to keep and improve that position. Whether it is going to work on not we will see in few years.

What is your problem - if anything this gives you as a potential customer much more nuanced choice of KTM bikes, if that is what you are interested in.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 10:59:05 am by Xpat »
 

Offline Maverick

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Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2019, 11:36:35 am »

One could have ridden an F800GS for 10 years before a model change, an air cooled R1200GS could be had for 8 years from '04-'12, and the LC for 6 years from '13 -'19.

Pedantic but a must correction....

Oil cooled from 1100 onwards up to the latest water cooled models. Air cooled i.e. airheads was done in 1995

On the various model options I think BMW is missing the trick a bit with this. They have always been steady with their models and ranges and not as adventurous as KTM to rise to public demand for different bikes. Simple example the HP2 - fantastic change of scenery and not as popular at the start but try and find one now. They churned out so many 1100/1150/1200 in the past two decades that you are hardly excited by any of them. I am not a KTM guy but they keep their market active and curious all the time. Only recently did I bother to look at another BMW bike again and that is the R9T Scrambler. All the other models are so in your face day in day out it starts to get boring. They are great bikes but you lose your individuality eventually.

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Offline eberhard

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Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2019, 12:02:56 pm »
KTM seem to be on a mission of continues improvement/advancement and they are not afraid to make big changes to achieve it We should all be thankful at least one manufacturer is doing it.

You should get a Suzuki TS185. You can still buy the same model new as my ‘81 new today :laughing4:

Why then would I buy a KTM now if, by the above argument, the manufacture admits to it not being a good model and will require improvements and big changes in the near future? Then I rather wait for the next model. But, wait, that will also be needing imminent improvements. So I wait for the model thereafter, and so on and so on. But I need a bike now. And then I shall have problems with spares because dealers have limited space and it is a capital layout for dealers to stock spares and where models keep changing dealers tend to stock only the more recent ones.

The exact counter approach is what made the BMW bikes pre 1993 and the Volkswagen Beetle so incredibly successful – the manufactures only brought about changes that were deemed really necessary due to changing external factors. With those vehicles you could almost anytime walk into any dealer and the dealer will readily have available what you want. It also kept manufacturing costs low. If I want something that regularly changes, I would get married to a woman. Which I have done. So now I want a few things in life that are stable, stay the same and give me the same shit, which once sorted either stays sorted or can easily be dealt with in known fashion and known consequences.
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Offline Mapog

Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2019, 01:05:46 pm »
I think it varies from person to person, I for one dont like change. Thats why I like Toyota so much, especially Land Cruiser. They 70 series was introduced in the 80s and although there were improvements during the years, the basics stayed the same.

I think its good for reliabilty, longevity, parts avalabilty and in the end for resale value.


People dont like buying something thats not on the market anymore. Take a look at the previous generation Hilux. When the new one came their secondhand prices took a knock.

That said, I think that the 990 was one model that KTM should have buildt a little bit longer....
 

Offline KaTooMatt

Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2019, 06:09:00 pm »
KTM seem to be on a mission of continues improvement/advancement and they are not afraid to make big changes to achieve it We should all be thankful at least one manufacturer is doing it.

You should get a Suzuki TS185. You can still buy the same model new as my ‘81 new today :laughing4:

Why then would I buy a KTM now if, by the above argument, the manufacture admits to it not being a good model and will require improvements and big changes in the near future? Then I rather wait for the next model. But, wait, that will also be needing imminent improvements. So I wait for the model thereafter, and so on and so on. But I need a bike now. And then I shall have problems with spares because dealers have limited space and it is a capital layout for dealers to stock spares and where models keep changing dealers tend to stock only the more recent ones.

The exact counter approach is what made the BMW bikes pre 1993 and the Volkswagen Beetle so incredibly successful – the manufactures only brought about changes that were deemed really necessary due to changing external factors. With those vehicles you could almost anytime walk into any dealer and the dealer will readily have available what you want. It also kept manufacturing costs low. If I want something that regularly changes, I would get married to a woman. Which I have done. So now I want a few things in life that are stable, stay the same and give me the same shit, which once sorted either stays sorted or can easily be dealt with in known fashion and known consequences.

It is not as bad as you think. I needed an new clutch master cylinder on my 990. I now have a 1190/12990 clutch master cylinder on my 990. So KTM are dragging the older bikes along too by making the improved parts fit retroactively.
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Offline eberhard

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Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2019, 07:09:08 pm »
It is not as bad as you think. I needed an new clutch master cylinder on my 990. I now have a 1190/12990 clutch master cylinder on my 990. So KTM are dragging the older bikes along too by making the improved parts fit retroactively.

 :thumleft: Good to know.
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Offline Omninorm

Re: What is it with KTM?
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2019, 10:17:58 am »
Well I think KTM covers their clients well.
You can buy from a little 50 SX through to a 1290 Adventure R.  SO you can start with them and basically stick with them and have an offroad/adventure bike that suits your needs.  Need a small Thumper Enduro bike that is road legal in countries where it's allowed.  350 EXC check,  want a large Thumper that can do a bit of everything - 690 Enduro Check.  Want a powerful fast adventure bike? 1290 AR. Check,  Want a commuter? 390 Duke Check,  Want a Super fast Superbike? 1290 SuperDuke.   Want a naked all rounder? 790 Duke.

I think this is an area where especially BMW are trying to make inroads to grow their business. But they wont enter the MX arena anytime soon, and I don't think they will go back to Enduro after they didn't do well sales wise with the 450X and 650 Xchallenge range. They will probably keep expanding with bikes like the 310gs, perhaps introduce a 125gs and then start doing some other street bikes etc.



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