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Author Topic: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?  (Read 662 times)

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Offline Sheepman

Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« on: February 05, 2019, 12:46:03 pm »
Following on from the 950/990 thread by KTM Forever on the number of bikes hitting the market, what's the view on so called legend tax ?
Is it real ? Is it just a gimmick to inflate old bike prices or what ?
For example - XT Yamahas, XL and R Hondas, KTM 640 's and on the road side, Moto Guzzi Le Mans , Laverda Jota, Ducati SS etc.
 

Offline Piet

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 12:49:16 pm »
Following on from the 950/990 thread by KTM Forever on the number of bikes hitting the market, what's the view on so called legend tax ?
Is it real ? Is it just a gimmick to inflate old bike prices or what ?
For example - XT Yamahas, XL and R Hondas, KTM 640 's and on the road side, Moto Guzzi Le Mans , Laverda Jota, Ducati SS etc.
I see you forgot to include KLRs.  :peepwall:  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Legend tax is simply a free-market phenomenon. If buyers are desperate and sellers are scarce, then the price is free game.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:50:43 pm by Piet »
 

Online Noneking

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 12:50:53 pm »
I think It’s determined by the market. Usually rare bikes in decent condition selling at prices higher than one would expect due to “legend status” and not many becoming available on the market
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 01:11:55 pm »
XR650R had big legend tax then people discovered 690's, 500's and other bikes with e-start now I reckon they dropped a bit in value. Flavour of the week is now KTM 990's it seems.
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Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline ROOI

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 01:15:35 pm »
XR650R had big legend tax then people discovered 690's, 500's and other bikes with e-start now I reckon they dropped a bit in value. Flavour of the week is now KTM 990's it seems.
Doubdt that 650 R's came down in price  :deal:
FTS
 

Offline Sheepman

Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2019, 01:15:43 pm »
I think It’s determined by the market. Usually rare bikes in decent condition selling at prices higher than one would expect due to “legend status” and not many becoming available on the market

Sure, I hear you - the HP, SE and others and not to forget the  KLR  :laughing4: fit this bill.
However, a quick check in scumbranch under " vintage and collectors bikes " reveal, for me at least, total unrealistic prices advertised.Granted, its another thing whether they fetch those prices of course.
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2019, 01:17:02 pm »
My picks for future legend tax :

DR650  :deal:
Anything 2 stroke (already expensive)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 01:17:46 pm by sidetrack »
Little by little, one travels far

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Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline Ganjora

Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 01:22:03 pm »
My picks for future legend tax :

DR650  :deal:

jussis boet.
stop smoking crack,  stop talking smack.
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Offline Sheepman

Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 01:25:43 pm »
My picks for future legend tax :

DR650  :deal:
Anything 2 stroke (already expensive)

I don't know the DR that well, but it seems to be getting very popular because of its affordability, simplicity and durability.
2 Smokes, I agree 100%. I saw a guy advertising a Suzi Water Buffalo  for R250 K recently......and it was never even considered to be an outstanding bike in the day 
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 01:57:03 pm »
XR650R had big legend tax then people discovered 690's, 500's and other bikes with e-start now I reckon they dropped a bit in value. Flavour of the week is now KTM 990's it seems.
Doubdt that 650 R's came down in price  :deal:
Nee man kyk hier R38 bargain  :biggrin:

https://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/barberton/2001-honda-xr650r/1004105256570910004749009
Little by little, one travels far

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Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline ROOI

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 02:10:53 pm »
XR650R had big legend tax then people discovered 690's, 500's and other bikes with e-start now I reckon they dropped a bit in value. Flavour of the week is now KTM 990's it seems.
Doubdt that 650 R's came down in price  :deal:
Nee man kyk hier R38 bargain  :biggrin:

https://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/barberton/2001-honda-xr650r/1004105256570910004749009
Cheap but look at the condition  :o
FTS
 

Offline ClimbingTurtle

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 02:29:39 pm »
XR650R had big legend tax then people discovered 690's, 500's and other bikes with e-start now I reckon they dropped a bit in value. Flavour of the week is now KTM 990's it seems.
Doubdt that 650 R's came down in price  :deal:
Nee man kyk hier R38 bargain  :biggrin:

https://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/barberton/2001-honda-xr650r/1004105256570910004749009

WD Stickers on it too - whose is it?
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Offline ROOI

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 02:33:49 pm »
XR650R had big legend tax then people discovered 690's, 500's and other bikes with e-start now I reckon they dropped a bit in value. Flavour of the week is now KTM 990's it seems.
Doubdt that 650 R's came down in price  :deal:
Nee man kyk hier R38 bargain  :biggrin:

https://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/barberton/2001-honda-xr650r/1004105256570910004749009

WD Stickers on it too - whose is it?
See it has a cape reg could be stof streeps old bike ???
FTS
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2019, 02:45:02 pm »
Cheap but look at the condition  :o
Looks used maybe but I see no obvious issues with the condition at first glance. Hell my XR is normally so dirty people will think it's a piece of scrap  :imaposer:

Legend tax comes down to how people relate to certain bikes. The old XR's became famous because of their racing pedigree and the many successes over the years. Famous guys rode them. Take the XR650R and it's Baja track record. Even though they were only produced from 2000 - 07, Johnny Campbell made it famous. Interestingly the KX500 was just about as successful as the XR650R and came a few years earlier but Kawasaki pulled it and being less well known only people that know them will buy them.

Another point for the XR650R, they are fairly rare and they are the most bike you can buy for the money. Not many 55-60hp bikes around for R40-50k and that is what you're paying for a used one. In a few years clean low km examples are going to fetch crazy prices I suspect.

The old Africa twins often attract some legend tax because of their dakar lineage. KLR's on the other hand have full legend status, but 0 legend tax because there's a ton of them around. The same is true of the DR and XRL, all three effectively being 30 years old designs.
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2019, 03:32:37 pm »
XR650R had big legend tax then people discovered 690's, 500's and other bikes with e-start now I reckon they dropped a bit in value. Flavour of the week is now KTM 990's it seems.

Yeah you are wrong there, if anything the XR650R has continued to hold their price and if you get one in good condition you still pay a premium, . The happy button has very little to do with it, the XR650R will outlast a 690 by about a decade.

What everyone is saying is true, its the market. When a 650R hits the market watch the chatter fly. I sold my 650R within 2 hours @ full asking price when I sold it, almost started a bidding war
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 03:37:50 pm »
Cheap but look at the condition  :o
Looks used maybe but I see no obvious issues with the condition at first glance. Hell my XR is normally so dirty people will think it's a piece of scrap  :imaposer:

Legend tax comes down to how people relate to certain bikes. The old XR's became famous because of their racing pedigree and the many successes over the years. Famous guys rode them. Take the XR650R and it's Baja track record. Even though they were only produced from 2000 - 07, Johnny Campbell made it famous. Interestingly the KX500 was just about as successful as the XR650R and came a few years earlier but Kawasaki pulled it and being less well known only people that know them will buy them.

Another point for the XR650R, they are fairly rare and they are the most bike you can buy for the money. Not many 55-60hp bikes around for R40-50k and that is what you're paying for a used one. In a few years clean low km examples are going to fetch crazy prices I suspect.

The old Africa twins often attract some legend tax because of their dakar lineage. KLR's on the other hand have full legend status, but 0 legend tax because there's a ton of them around. The same is true of the DR and XRL, all three effectively being 30 years old designs.

Spot on, The KLR was also too heavy, much like the Transalp. great bike but 0 legend tax.
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Offline Beserker

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2019, 03:51:33 pm »
XR650R had big legend tax then people discovered 690's, 500's and other bikes with e-start now I reckon they dropped a bit in value. Flavour of the week is now KTM 990's it seems.

The rand dropped in value - I received a serious offer on my bike, for nearly 30% more than I paid for it..

I know of a 2007 XRR, 800KM on the clock, with aftermarket e-start ...  R128k
The new owner took it, the first thing he did was to rip the e-start out, rip the battery out, sold it on for R30k (XRR doesn't really need it, it weighs a ton)
Still leaves him with an XRR of R90k.

Another one, has full 650 (not 680) HRC kit, incl. upgrade Showa rear etc etc, R85k

For an XRR with less than 25k km - R50k - R60k ("standard"  means farkled with long range tank, should be RWC)

Without Long Range tank, RWC and 30k km +, the price drops quick.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 08:21:34 pm by Beserker »
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Offline Ganjora

Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 04:31:01 pm »
Same experience selling my XRR as fuzzy.
Previous owner still hates me after I forgot my pledge to sell it back to him...
Definitely my favourite bike.
The 950 got a few looks, the XRR had to have the drool wiped off it regularly.
 :thumleft:
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2019, 04:39:05 pm »
XR650R one bike I have never owned but have to admit not man enough to start that beast on a lever only. I have seen them on cold misty mornings refusing to wake up  :snorting:
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Ride reports :
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=134175.0 Penge's pass and the Old Forest http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=9421.0 - Orange Atlantic adventure http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=7514.0 - 805 km day trip http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=20260.0 - East Cape Bash http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=70199.0 - Two KTM thumpers head north
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: Legend Tax - What, How and by Whom determined ?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2019, 04:53:18 pm »
XR650R one bike I have never owned but have to admit not man enough to start that beast on a lever only. I have seen them on cold misty mornings refusing to wake up  :snorting:

I will be dead honest, if the bike is in good condition, carb setup is correct and valves are in spec, mine starts 1st kick, sometimes 2nd. Cold or hot. I've heard of people struggling once they've been flooded, I have had mine flooded when I had offs etc and if you clear our the combustion chamber first starting it is a breeze. If you're lazy or skip steps then you'll struggle.
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!