Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

Author Topic: Skieting toll booths  (Read 2548 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Manic

  • Vendors
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 16,206
  • Thanked: 109 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2019, 10:40:43 pm »
My trokke betaal R17 000 per jaar lisensie geld. As hy n pothole trap is dit sy reg  :pot:
1250 GSA
H2 Supercharged
990 SM
 

Online IceCreamMan

  • Pawn star
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: Kawasaki Versys
    Location: United Kingdom
  • Posts: 6,300
  • Thanked: 97 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2019, 10:52:33 pm »
Know what you are talking about. Those same farkers who dont open a gap for you or shout and act out when you lane split past them.  No impact whatsoever on them, but a case of spiteful envy.

A bit of lawlessness.....dont tell the poms.  They get envious behind their hot beer.. :laughing4:

Very very very few tolls here..... and the only toll road I have seen in uK bikes paid less than cars and bicycles which theoretically have a smaller contact patch which could,lead to wear go free and for pasella....

And thatís how it should work...

A little lawlessness goes a long way , all the way to the prez these days.
Swim.Bike.Run.Eat.Sleep
 

Offline Kortbroek

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2019, 11:33:54 pm »
Please tell me if I am barking up the wrong tree with my thoughts here.

From looking at the roads in pretoria and to the north of pretoria I think the most damage in residential areas comes from larger heavier vehicles accelerating and braking at robots and stop streets. You can see how the tar has been moved at the robots, coming to a stop at the lights it looks as though the tar is pushed forward by the braking, and leaving the lights like the tar has been pulled back by the accelerating vehicles.

On open roads the most damage is done while the roads are wet and water is pushed into the road surface, it forms cracks and water gets pushed through them under the tar forming cavities under the road surface. The tar then gets broken up and you end up with potholes. Just my very basic "understanding" of how potholes are formed.

While the pressure on the road surface from bikes riding over it is higher I would think the motorcycle wheels with their smaller contact patch would displace water quite a bit more and would push less water into the road surface than a wider car tyre or a very wide truck tyre? And because of the low weight they would push and pull the tar a lot less than cars and trucks at stop streets and traffic lights?

For water to be "pushed into the surface" as you put it, it will need to be confined somehow. I can promise you this is not how it happens. Without something to confine the water under the pressure point it just flows out to the side. Tar surfaces are not solid. They are harder/more firm when it is cold, and softer/more ductile when it is warm outside. So keep in mind that basically the surface of the road will to some degree "flex" or "indent" when under pressure from a wheel. The higher the pressure the more the effect. Now your observation that the surface sees more damage at stop signs and traffic lights make sense seeing as there vehicles are stationary so more pressure over time on one spot. In warm climates or on really hot days the damage is more due to the road surface being softer/weaker and vice versa on cold days keeping in mind when cold it might be more prone to cracking.

Propagation of small cracks caused by the above combined with water ingress will over time cause small bit of the surface to get "ripped" out. Now you've got a starting point and the hole grows from there. Of course another common mechanism is the road bed yielding which can also cause the surface to crack and form potholes. This last one I've seen happen to newly constructed roads where the road bed was not designed or built to a high enough standard.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 11:34:28 pm by Kortbroek »
- you reckon that thing will pop a wheelie? We're about to find out, SLAP that pig!
 

Offline 2wdrift

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XR650R
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Thanked: 98 times
  • KLR Flip...
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2019, 10:27:13 am »
Please tell me if I am barking up the wrong tree with my thoughts here.

From looking at the roads in pretoria and to the north of pretoria I think the most damage in residential areas comes from larger heavier vehicles accelerating and braking at robots and stop streets. You can see how the tar has been moved at the robots, coming to a stop at the lights it looks as though the tar is pushed forward by the braking, and leaving the lights like the tar has been pulled back by the accelerating vehicles.

On open roads the most damage is done while the roads are wet and water is pushed into the road surface, it forms cracks and water gets pushed through them under the tar forming cavities under the road surface. The tar then gets broken up and you end up with potholes. Just my very basic "understanding" of how potholes are formed.

While the pressure on the road surface from bikes riding over it is higher I would think the motorcycle wheels with their smaller contact patch would displace water quite a bit more and would push less water into the road surface than a wider car tyre or a very wide truck tyre? And because of the low weight they would push and pull the tar a lot less than cars and trucks at stop streets and traffic lights?

For water to be "pushed into the surface" as you put it, it will need to be confined somehow. I can promise you this is not how it happens. Without something to confine the water under the pressure point it just flows out to the side. Tar surfaces are not solid. They are harder/more firm when it is cold, and softer/more ductile when it is warm outside. So keep in mind that basically the surface of the road will to some degree "flex" or "indent" when under pressure from a wheel. The higher the pressure the more the effect. Now your observation that the surface sees more damage at stop signs and traffic lights make sense seeing as there vehicles are stationary so more pressure over time on one spot. In warm climates or on really hot days the damage is more due to the road surface being softer/weaker and vice versa on cold days keeping in mind when cold it might be more prone to cracking.

Propagation of small cracks caused by the above combined with water ingress will over time cause small bit of the surface to get "ripped" out. Now you've got a starting point and the hole grows from there. Of course another common mechanism is the road bed yielding which can also cause the surface to crack and form potholes. This last one I've seen happen to newly constructed roads where the road bed was not designed or built to a high enough standard.
Thanks for the clarification.

I worked for a construction company for a while and heard all sorts of stories on how these things work, the ones I posted seemed like the most plausible to me out of what I heard.
XR650R the one and only
Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls.  ~Stirling Moss

Don't worry my stutter is also bilingual...
 

Online TheBear

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2019, 11:07:50 am »
Know what you are talking about. Those same farkers who dont open a gap for you or shout and act out when you lane split past them.  No impact whatsoever on them, but a case of spiteful envy.

A bit of lawlessness.....dont tell the poms.  They get envious behind their hot beer.. :laughing4:

Very very very few tolls here..... and the only toll road I have seen in uK bikes paid less than cars and bicycles which theoretically have a smaller contact patch which could,lead to wear go free and for pasella....

And thatís how it should work...

A little lawlessness goes a long way , all the way to the prez these days.

About  20 toll roads where you are and you also have the irky congestion charge in London and Durham.  Bikes, in general pay less in the UK though.  On some roads, if they have a tag, there is no charge.  The SA issue with these pesky toll gates is that when they were installed, no provision was made for charging bikes separately as the ever, so clever government of the day, did not see the need.

 

.#BRADICAL!
 

Online Roxtar

  • REV IT UP
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XR650L
    Location: North West
  • Posts: 2,198
  • Thanked: 41 times
  • Aka Sprocket Face
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2019, 01:41:30 pm »
Please tell me if I am barking up the wrong tree with my thoughts here.

From looking at the roads in pretoria and to the north of pretoria I think the most damage in residential areas comes from larger heavier vehicles accelerating and braking at robots and stop streets. You can see how the tar has been moved at the robots, coming to a stop at the lights it looks as though the tar is pushed forward by the braking, and leaving the lights like the tar has been pulled back by the accelerating vehicles.

You are barking up the wrong tree... t'is KTM's doin' that..... :thumleft: :lol8:
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 01:43:04 pm by Roxtar »
Long live the Underdog.........
 

Offline KiLRoy

  • A serious man...
  • Administrator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 14,348
  • Thanked: 195 times
  • You said it, man. Nobody fucks with Jesus Quintana
    • Wild Dog Adventure Riders
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2019, 02:11:21 pm »
Know what you are talking about. Those same farkers who dont open a gap for you or shout and act out when you lane split past them.  No impact whatsoever on them, but a case of spiteful envy.

A bit of lawlessness.....dont tell the poms.  They get envious behind their hot beer.. :laughing4:

Very very very few tolls here..... and the only toll road I have seen in uK bikes paid less than cars and bicycles which theoretically have a smaller contact patch which could,lead to wear go free and for pasella....

And thatís how it should work...

A little lawlessness goes a long way , all the way to the prez these days.

About  20 toll roads where you are and you also have the irky congestion charge in London and Durham.  Bikes, in general pay less in the UK though.  On some roads, if they have a tag, there is no charge.  The SA issue with these pesky toll gates is that when they were installed, no provision was made for charging bikes separately as the ever, so clever government of the day, did not see the need.

 

20 you say?  ICM is not aware of them
 

Online TheBear

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2019, 02:21:39 pm »
Know what you are talking about. Those same farkers who dont open a gap for you or shout and act out when you lane split past them.  No impact whatsoever on them, but a case of spiteful envy.

A bit of lawlessness.....dont tell the poms.  They get envious behind their hot beer.. :laughing4:

Very very very few tolls here..... and the only toll road I have seen in uK bikes paid less than cars and bicycles which theoretically have a smaller contact patch which could,lead to wear go free and for pasella....

And thatís how it should work...

A little lawlessness goes a long way , all the way to the prez these days.

About  20 toll roads where you are and you also have the irky congestion charge in London and Durham.  Bikes, in general pay less in the UK though.  On some roads, if they have a tag, there is no charge.  The SA issue with these pesky toll gates is that when they were installed, no provision was made for charging bikes separately as the ever, so clever government of the day, did not see the need.

 

20 you say?  ICM is not aware of them

I would guess he didn't go on a round trip of the UK to count toll roads as yet.
.#BRADICAL!
 

Offline Cracker

  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: KTM 950 Adventure S
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 5,129
  • Thanked: 100 times
  • Top Biscuit!
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2019, 03:12:20 pm »
Nah, he must have ................. will only take 5 minutes.
Don't let fear hold you back ..... take it with you!
 
The following users thanked this post: IceCreamMan

Offline 2wdrift

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: Honda XR650R
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Thanked: 98 times
  • KLR Flip...
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2019, 03:15:06 pm »
Please tell me if I am barking up the wrong tree with my thoughts here.

From looking at the roads in pretoria and to the north of pretoria I think the most damage in residential areas comes from larger heavier vehicles accelerating and braking at robots and stop streets. You can see how the tar has been moved at the robots, coming to a stop at the lights it looks as though the tar is pushed forward by the braking, and leaving the lights like the tar has been pulled back by the accelerating vehicles.

You are barking up the wrong tree... t'is KTM's doin' that..... :thumleft: 8:

So the BMW's are the ones leaving the grooves in the road?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 04:22:56 pm by 2wdrift »
XR650R the one and only
Calling upon my years of experience, I froze at the controls.  ~Stirling Moss

Don't worry my stutter is also bilingual...
 

Offline Ganjora

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2019, 04:09:46 pm »
Weight per wheel must be astonishing on a minibus taxi...
 

Offline Offroadrider

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2019, 06:57:37 pm »
Weight per wheel must be astonishing on a minibus taxi...
Imagine the weight with these fat buggers on their GS's
 

Offline Manic

  • Vendors
  • Bachelor Dog
  • *****
  • Bike: BMW R1200GS Adventure
    Location: Eastern Cape
  • Posts: 16,206
  • Thanked: 109 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2019, 11:54:14 pm »
Weight per wheel must be astonishing on a minibus taxi...
Imagine the weight with these fat buggers on their GS's

Dankie  :biggrin:
1250 GSA
H2 Supercharged
990 SM
 

Online IceCreamMan

  • Pawn star
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: Kawasaki Versys
    Location: United Kingdom
  • Posts: 6,300
  • Thanked: 97 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #73 on: March 15, 2019, 08:13:34 am »
Know what you are talking about. Those same farkers who dont open a gap for you or shout and act out when you lane split past them.  No impact whatsoever on them, but a case of spiteful envy.

A bit of lawlessness.....dont tell the poms.  They get envious behind their hot beer.. :laughing4:

Very very very few tolls here..... and the only toll road I have seen in uK bikes paid less than cars and bicycles which theoretically have a smaller contact patch which could,lead to wear go free and for pasella....

And thatís how it should work...

A little lawlessness goes a long way , all the way to the prez these days.

About  20 toll roads where you are and you also have the irky congestion charge in London and Durham.  Bikes, in general pay less in the UK though.  On some roads, if they have a tag, there is no charge.  The SA issue with these pesky toll gates is that when they were installed, no provision was made for charging bikes separately as the ever, so clever government of the day, did not see the need.

 

20 you say?  ICM is not aware of them

I would guess he didn't go on a round trip of the UK to count toll roads as yet.

No, have been traveling a lot, just lucky maybe.

Only toll I sometimes go via is the bridge in  Southampton when I go to footie.

Congestion charge I donít pay as I use bike if I have to go to London but it is a birch and soon a ULEZ charge but my bike and car are exempt, my old bike would be liable but wonít use it for London.

But we do pay a lot in road tax and fuel tax so the less tolls the better.

Google tells me there are 23 tolls in uK, 18 are river crossings thus bridges. Fair enough I spose. I obviously take the long way round
Swim.Bike.Run.Eat.Sleep
 

Offline BlueBull2007

  • Caribbean
  • Global Moderator
  • Bachelor Dog
  • ***
  • Bike: AJS (all models)
    Location: Other
  • Posts: 10,177
  • Thanked: 268 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2019, 06:58:00 am »
ICM, you would surely skiet a toll gate if you saw one in the UK right? ;D

You always used to before the recent unpleasantness resulted in your move, no?
Rally nut. What could possibly go wrong?
Living the Rally Dream - Ride Report
Current bike: KTM 350 EXC   Previous bikes:  2010 WR450F, 2006 KTM450EXC,KTM 450RR, BMW800GS, KTM450EXC, BMW650 GS, BMW650 Dakar, and Honda XR250
 

Online IceCreamMan

  • Pawn star
  • Forum Whore
  • ****
  • Bike: Kawasaki Versys
    Location: United Kingdom
  • Posts: 6,300
  • Thanked: 97 times
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2019, 08:18:25 am »
ICM, you would surely skiet a toll gate if you saw one in the UK right? ;D

You always used to before the recent unpleasantness resulted in your move, no?

Hehe. I am a law abiding Brit now. Itís not even a thing here skieting tolls. But as Motorcyckes are charged less I would pay. But as said I only ever seen one an I go to football matches by car so canít skiet it anyway. Iirc the toll also has different rates for different times of the day. Quite clever.
Swim.Bike.Run.Eat.Sleep
 

Online TheBear

Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #76 on: March 19, 2019, 09:56:08 am »
ICM, you would surely skiet a toll gate if you saw one in the UK right? ;D

You always used to before the recent unpleasantness resulted in your move, no?

Hehe. I am a law abiding Brit now. Itís not even a thing here skieting tolls. But as Motorcyckes are charged less I would pay. But as said I only ever seen one an I go to football matches by car so canít skiet it anyway. Iirc the toll also has different rates for different times of the day. Quite clever.

You mean like our E-Tolls?   :lol8:
.#BRADICAL!
 

Offline XTZFegen

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Bike: KTM 990 Adventure
    Location: Gauteng
  • Posts: 2,517
  • Thanked: 50 times
  • Audere Est Facere
Re: Skieting toll booths
« Reply #77 on: March 27, 2019, 10:17:20 am »
Someone I know who is not me in any way shape or form used to skip the toll gates all the time, his bike didnt have a numberplate fitted so he could give the finger to the etoll people. He had a few people not happy with his behavior but could not see how his behavior could have bothered them or negatively affected any other motorist on the roads, he saw it in the same light as people who tried to block him from lane splitting. They are not negatively impacted in any way shape or form but become outraged when he would try and get past them.

He ignored them and carried on lane splitting and skipping toll gates without any issue at all.

It is a phenomenon called "Sunshine Syndrome" where another (cagers) does not want to see the sunshine upon another(biker, definitely, positively, not 2W Drift)

I shall tell the other rider that is not in any way shape or form me about this sunshine syndrome, he will probably appreciate it.

The only case where I think lane splitting can actually impact on a drivers is if the bike coming past scares them, I had this once where I coasted through traffic till I got to the front of the que and stopped just behind a woman busy texting. As soon as I pulled away and gave the bike a bit of throttle she go a moerse skrik and freaked out, I laughed so hard I nearly dropped my beer.

I love doing that. When I move through traffic I actually look out for cagers texting on their cellphones and I braaaap the fuck out the KTM and catch a giggle. I once had a guy throw his phone out the window he got such a fright.

I find that shit funny.