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Author Topic: Load shedding and the economy  (Read 3584 times)

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Online TheBear

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #100 on: March 29, 2019, 11:00:04 am »
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:

What would Eskom collect as they have no idea what your usage was, or how much it should take.  Should it take your whole amount, or your amount, less the munics bit?  Still a very difficult, if not impossible method.

The best and easiest solution is still for Treasury to check what is each munics outstanding balance at Eskom and then pay Eskom, prior to paying over the munics allocation from the national budget.
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Offline roxenz

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #101 on: March 29, 2019, 02:19:34 pm »
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:

What would Eskom collect as they have no idea what your usage was, or how much it should take.  Should it take your whole amount, or your amount, less the munics bit?  Still a very difficult, if not impossible method.

The best and easiest solution is still for Treasury to check what is each munics outstanding balance at Eskom and then pay Eskom, prior to paying over the munics allocation from the national budget.
So you are saying I (and a host of other taxpayers who have been paying our bills) should now pay other people's bills just because the money has been misspent? How would that help? On the one hand you'll piss of more paying taxpayers, and on the other you are basically saying to the guilty (the non-payers and mis-managers) that it's OK, go ahead and carry on as before. We'll bail you out. So the problem will just get bigger and more painful to solve.

There is only ONE solution: holding people responsible for their actions (or inactions in most cases), with real consequences. Yeah, like that ever going to happen. Any reasonably analytical thinking capacity will work out that it is a one way road to a totally wrecked economy, but then, as Julius Nyerere famously said to thunderous applause "before we had some rich people and some poor people, now we are all poor together!".
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #102 on: March 29, 2019, 02:28:31 pm »
I heard a lovely one the other day, and no not from the web or wattsapp from a property investor, investing in upmarket areas of Soweto etc, for the same price property investment he can charge R3k to R4k a month more as people don't have to budget to pay Electricity, Water and Rates as no one does in those areas  :peepwall:.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 02:32:07 pm by Welsh »
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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #103 on: March 29, 2019, 02:48:49 pm »
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:
Problem is it is not possible. There are 3 places to buy prepaid electricity, the municipality being one of them. All cash purchases, so we cannot withhold money, then we will be in dark in any event
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Offline Wooly Bugger

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #104 on: March 29, 2019, 02:54:01 pm »
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:

What would Eskom collect as they have no idea what your usage was, or how much it should take.  Should it take your whole amount, or your amount, less the munics bit?  Still a very difficult, if not impossible method.

The best and easiest solution is still for Treasury to check what is each munics outstanding balance at Eskom and then pay Eskom, prior to paying over the munics allocation from the national budget.
So you are saying I (and a host of other taxpayers who have been paying our bills) should now pay other people's bills just because the money has been  STOLEN? How would that help? On the one hand you'll piss of more paying taxpayers, and on the other you are basically saying to the guilty (the non-payers and mis-managers) that it's OK, go ahead and carry on as before. We'll bail you out. So the problem will just get bigger and more painful to solve.

There is only ONE solution: holding people responsible for their actions (or inactions in most cases), with real consequences. Yeah, like that ever going to happen. Any reasonably analytical thinking capacity will work out that it is a one way road to a totally wrecked economy, but then, as Julius Nyerere famously said to thunderous applause "before we had some rich people and some poor people, now we are all poor together!".

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Offline Bundu

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #105 on: March 30, 2019, 02:18:56 pm »
So you agree the figures will be wrong, you are saying it will not be wrong by much?

good question, when I have a bit of time, I'll draw up a spreadsheet and do some simulations, but I would guess not more than 1 or 2%

edit: what are your units per month roughly for summer and for winter?

@KiLRoy I did some simulations and it's negligable - see below - the file names describe the situation
 

EDIT: so in my case, over a year, it did not make any difference, but it is because I'm well within the 650kWh/mnth bracket
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 02:25:04 pm by Bundu »
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #106 on: March 30, 2019, 08:31:11 pm »
I have some sums which i will make when i have time. Boils down to the estimate pushing one in a big jump new bracket. Rebates done within existing bracket, not downward adjusted. 

Point is sliding scale estimates are not accurate in fixed cycle situations. Bills must be accurate, not close to accurate.
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #107 on: March 30, 2019, 08:51:17 pm »
I have some sums which i will make when i have time. Boils down to the estimate pushing one in a big jump new bracket. Rebates done within existing bracket, not downward adjusted. 

Point is sliding scale estimates are not accurate in fixed cycle situations. Bills must be accurate, not close to accurate.

you didn't understand my tables?

Tell my what consumption and what month length deviation I must simulate?

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #108 on: March 31, 2019, 02:00:56 am »
Try water

M1 act 12, est 16 estimated at much higher rate
M2 act 12, no est, adj 8 - adjusted at much lower rate
 

Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #109 on: April 02, 2019, 07:44:07 am »
the only difference between the 2 houses is one is in a security complex, I cant even figure out how the network charges work.

Who do you pay for electricity in the complex?  Often the admin company collect the money from each tenant and pay one price on the bulk meter to the municipality.  They can play around with the scales and make a bit of money on it.


At the end of the day I still think our electricity is fairly cheap compared to the rest of the world , my house with a borehole and swimming pool with a granny flat only uses about R200 - R250 a week in electricity.

Tshwane I pay about R1,80 per kWh.  Watched some videos about America and it seems we are paying more for electricity than they do.  ???
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #110 on: April 02, 2019, 12:59:45 pm »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?
 
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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #111 on: April 02, 2019, 02:30:39 pm »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 02:31:44 pm by TheBear »
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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #112 on: April 02, 2019, 03:48:09 pm »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.
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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #113 on: April 02, 2019, 04:52:27 pm »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #114 on: April 03, 2019, 06:50:11 am »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??
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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #115 on: April 03, 2019, 03:19:05 pm »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??

Often. You?
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #116 on: April 04, 2019, 07:40:05 am »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??

Often. You?

Nope, I dont see it working out in my favour
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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #117 on: April 04, 2019, 09:26:09 am »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Because if you don't, you will be disconnected.  Assuming you are in an area where the ailing infrastructure allows for that.

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #118 on: April 04, 2019, 10:26:34 am »
As an aside, there are some "electrical entrepreneurs" in the "informal settlements". These guys make sure someone gets paid for electricity by connecting up to some convenient street light, pump station or similar and running a distribution network to the houses; for which the occupier pays the "entrepreneur". Near to the site I'm working on, even bare barbed wire from the security fence was used as a conductor.  Now and then the municipality sends an armed disconnection team (no one ever gets arrested) who disconnect the illegal connections but they are usually restored with a day or so.  These electricity "accounts" definitely get paid, not the municipality of course.
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #119 on: April 04, 2019, 10:38:57 am »
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??

Often. You?

Nope, I dont see it working out in my favour

So why even ask the question in the 1st place?