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Online Bie

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2019, 09:14:23 am »
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎

Do not agree that it has to come in all cases. For about the last 15 years already we, in this municipality, all work on prepaid meters, so all electricity used here was paid for before it was used. That money was paid to the municipality which then squandered it on other things or in several cases money (cash) went missing before it was banked. Why should us, the consumer, be penalised while we paid for the electricity we used and the municipality (ANC led) did not fulfil their simple obligation of paying it over to Eskom.
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Offline Welsh

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2019, 09:38:15 am »
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎

Do not agree that it has to come in all cases. For about the last 15 years already we, in this municipality, all work on prepaid meters, so all electricity used here was paid for before it was used. That money was paid to the municipality which then squandered it on other things or in several cases money (cash) went missing before it was banked. Why should us, the consumer, be penalised while we paid for the electricity we used and the municipality (ANC led) did not fulfil their simple obligation of paying it over to Eskom.
I fully understand your position the disfunctional municipalities are the issue, that is why Eskom lose court cases when they try to switch supplies off, but it does not resolve the issue 8)
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Online Bie

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2019, 09:41:05 am »
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎

Do not agree that it has to come in all cases. For about the last 15 years already we, in this municipality, all work on prepaid meters, so all electricity used here was paid for before it was used. That money was paid to the municipality which then squandered it on other things or in several cases money (cash) went missing before it was banked. Why should us, the consumer, be penalised while we paid for the electricity we used and the municipality (ANC led) did not fulfil their simple obligation of paying it over to Eskom.
I fully understand your position the disfunctional municipalities are the issue, that is why Eskom lose court cases when they try to switch supplies off, but it does not resolve the issue 8)

So the message that goes out is whether you pay or not, your power will also be cut. So what motivation remains to be a loyal citizen who pays?
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Online Bie

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2019, 09:54:27 am »
It is not the consumer who defaulted, it is the municipality, so in my opinion the consumer should not be penalised for their failure. Locally several commercial farms have been transferred to the Municipality as part of land reform and it is registered into their name at the deeds office. The municipality is supposed to get rent from the beneficiaries, but those farms are largely disfunctional with no rent paid over and hardly any economic activity on them.
A better option would be for Eskom to attach those farms and sell them on public auction to recoup their losses. They will have much better leverage on the ANC to step up to take responsibility or lose the farms that are used as political ball in any case. If I default my assets are sold, so why is it different with them where innocent parties are expected to bear the brunt.
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Offline TheBear

Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2019, 10:26:45 am »
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎

Same here, thank goodness.  It is not without its headaches, but at least the loadshedding schedules are correct and we don't have an even more incompetent middle man in the mix.
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Offline TheBear

Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2019, 10:29:56 am »
It is not the consumer who defaulted, it is the municipality, so in my opinion the consumer should not be penalised for their failure. Locally several commercial farms have been transferred to the Municipality as part of land reform and it is registered into their name at the deeds office. The municipality is supposed to get rent from the beneficiaries, but those farms are largely disfunctional with no rent paid over and hardly any economic activity on them.
A better option would be for Eskom to attach those farms and sell them on public auction to recoup their losses. They will have much better leverage on the ANC to step up to take responsibility or lose the farms that are used as political ball in any case. If I default my assets are sold, so why is it different with them where innocent parties are expected to bear the brunt.

Eskom did do that once before in Soweto.  It is why large parts of Soweto are direct Eskom customers.  It is certainly one way of solving that non-payment by munics issue, but it does move more power to the state owned monopoly.  There is another way which I believe is easier all round.  The national government, when they do the annual provincial allocations could withhold whatever munics in that province owes Eskom and pay that over to Eskom.  The Provincial governments can then do the same when they do their munic allocations. 
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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2019, 11:11:25 am »
Paying money to eskom is also not the solution. They just steal it.  Eskom problem is not a lack of money one, but a incompetence, corrupt and unproductive one.  Need a seperate new electricity collection method for defaulting municipalities.  Basically, if you are a child who cant work with money, you will get allocated a responsible party who will manage your finances on your behalf
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 08:48:54 am by KiLRoy »
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2019, 11:13:57 am »
It is not the consumer who defaulted, it is the municipality, so in my opinion the consumer should not be penalised for their failure. Locally several commercial farms have been transferred to the Municipality as part of land reform and it is registered into their name at the deeds office. The municipality is supposed to get rent from the beneficiaries, but those farms are largely disfunctional with no rent paid over and hardly any economic activity on them.
A better option would be for Eskom to attach those farms and sell them on public auction to recoup their losses. They will have much better leverage on the ANC to step up to take responsibility or lose the farms that are used as political ball in any case. If I default my assets are sold, so why is it different with them where innocent parties are expected to bear the brunt.

Eskom did do that once before in Soweto.  It is why large parts of Soweto are direct Eskom customers.  It is certainly one way of solving that non-payment by munics issue, but it does move more power to the state owned monopoly.  There is another way which I believe is easier all round.  The national government, when they do the annual provincial allocations could withhold whatever munics in that province owes Eskom and pay that over to Eskom.  The Provincial governments can then do the same when they do their munic allocations.

Does Soweto's arrears come from non payment of electricity by consumers or non payment by the municipality while it was paid for by the consumers? Many of Soweto's residents flatly refuse to pay their accounts and there even was resistance to possible prepaid meter installation. Completely different kettle of fish, however not all refuse to pay and those who do will also be penalised while not in arrears, which is wrong.
Here no one is in arrears as the electricity is paid for prior to use. The first however much of monthly use is subsidised to low income householdings and the system does keep track of monthly purchases per meter, so a use pattern can be formed, hence illegal connections which will lower use while connected can be tracked, if monitored. The electricity supplied by Eskom largely matches up with the amount sold by the municipality, the issue however is the money never reaches Eskom, then the community is held at ransom.
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Offline TheBear

Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2019, 11:27:37 am »
It is not the consumer who defaulted, it is the municipality, so in my opinion the consumer should not be penalised for their failure. Locally several commercial farms have been transferred to the Municipality as part of land reform and it is registered into their name at the deeds office. The municipality is supposed to get rent from the beneficiaries, but those farms are largely disfunctional with no rent paid over and hardly any economic activity on them.
A better option would be for Eskom to attach those farms and sell them on public auction to recoup their losses. They will have much better leverage on the ANC to step up to take responsibility or lose the farms that are used as political ball in any case. If I default my assets are sold, so why is it different with them where innocent parties are expected to bear the brunt.

Eskom did do that once before in Soweto.  It is why large parts of Soweto are direct Eskom customers.  It is certainly one way of solving that non-payment by munics issue, but it does move more power to the state owned monopoly.  There is another way which I believe is easier all round.  The national government, when they do the annual provincial allocations could withhold whatever munics in that province owes Eskom and pay that over to Eskom.  The Provincial governments can then do the same when they do their munic allocations.


Does Soweto's arrears come from non payment of electricity by consumers or non payment by the municipality while it was paid for by the consumers? Many of Soweto's residents flatly refuse to pay their accounts and there even was resistance to possible prepaid meter installation. Completely different kettle of fish, however not all refuse to pay and those who do will also be penalised while not in arrears, which is wrong.
Here no one is in arrears as the electricity is paid for prior to use. The first however much of monthly use is subsidised to low income householdings and the system does keep track of monthly purchases per meter, so a use pattern can be formed, hence illegal connections which will lower use while connected can be tracked, if monitored. The electricity supplied by Eskom largely matches up with the amount sold by the municipality, the issue however is the money never reaches Eskom, then the community is held at ransom.


There are various reasons for the non-payment in Soweto, but Eskom supplies direct, so no involvement from a munic.  Some years ago, the non-payment graphs indicated that there is a clear split between non-payers.  Those who refuse to pay and those who pay, but pay less less than owed indicating an affordability issue, rather than a blanket refusal to pay.  I don't know if that is still the same.  It is however possible for Eskom to cut off individual users in Soweto as they supply direct, but that opens a whole new kettle of fish. 

As for the non-payment, by munics, I thought I had agreed with you.  It is a huge problem exactly as you stated because Eskom can do nothing except cut the whole munic which will be grossly unfair on the customers who pay their accounts, therefore .... (see the bit I wrote earlier about government allocations)
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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2019, 12:28:02 pm »
the leadership in the munics should be taken to court and personally held accountable if they don't pay monies received from residents over to eskom
 

Offline Welsh

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2019, 02:52:30 pm »
the leadership in the munics should be taken to court and personally held accountable if they don't pay monies received from residents over to eskom
couldn’t agree more, however 🙄
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Offline Koet

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2019, 08:03:14 am »
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.

It sucks for the people that pay their bills every month.  And what's worse is that the people that don't pay will just connect illegally so they won't feel it when Eskom disconnects the municipality.
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Offline TheBear

Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2019, 08:39:57 am »
the leadership in the munics should be taken to court and personally held accountable if they don't pay monies received from residents over to eskom
couldn’t agree more, however 🙄

+1.

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Offline Bundu

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #73 on: March 25, 2019, 08:44:08 am »
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.

It sucks for the people that pay their bills every month.  And what's worse is that the people that don't pay will just connect illegally so they won't feel it when Eskom disconnects the municipality.

If the whole area is off, there is no power to illegally connect to
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2019, 03:23:10 pm »
I have 44 staff in a factory and been losing 4 hours a day production. Generally we have a good understanding and communication but on Monday I asked for any ideas how we can minimize the impact for instance shifting breakfast and lunch into the load shedding times each side of the day. One cheeky bugger chirped no he is not going to do that because he is not hungry then. So that is 176 production hours lost a day trying to keep everyone busy. All our stuff is handmade but needs some basic machinery through certain phases of the day. This combined with a tough retail market certainly makes you wonder how long you still going to be employed but we soldier on  :patch:

That is exactly what I did.. the staff got given a choice.. its a really easy one. We shift work around to work when the lights are on and they get given time off during loadshedding... even for me.

I think people are going to show me the "I told you so card" but I really think 1000's of people have run off to buy generators that they will hardly ever use again.

I have a question for the legal experts. If i own a house and i stop paying my electricity bill then Eskom cuts me off directly, not the entire community, so question 1 is, why cant Eskom cut off power to non payers individually like in my area and question 2 is.. if i sell my house but my municipal bill is in arrears then I have to settle those arrears through the transferring attorney.. So im assuming that even though a household in Soweto does'nt pay his bill.. it will eventually get paid. I just sold a plot and the municipality forced me to pay R2500 'just incase' there was any unpaid fees , even though on their system i'm up to date it still had to be paid with them agreeing to refund me after the new owner starts getting billed.

Or is the system just different there?
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Offline TheBear

Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #75 on: March 26, 2019, 08:16:36 am »

I have a question for the legal experts. If i own a house and i stop paying my electricity bill then Eskom cuts me off directly, not the entire community, so question 1 is, why cant Eskom cut off power to non payers individually like in my area and question 2 is.. if i sell my house but my municipal bill is in arrears then I have to settle those arrears through the transferring attorney.. So im assuming that even though a household in Soweto does'nt pay his bill.. it will eventually get paid. I just sold a plot and the municipality forced me to pay R2500 'just incase' there was any unpaid fees , even though on their system i'm up to date it still had to be paid with them agreeing to refund me after the new owner starts getting billed.

Or is the system just different there?

If you are an Eskom Direct customer and you do not pay, Eskom can switch you off individually at your connection. 

If you are a munic customer Eskom does not have any control off your power supply.  In this case the munic is Eskom's customer and you are a customer of the munic, not Eskom.  In such a case Eskom wouldn't even know if you are in arrears or not and any any event they can only switch off the main feed into that munic, therefore everyone on that sub-station, regardless of whether they paid, or not.  If you do not pay, the munic switches you off.

Your account issue is with the munic, not Eskom and your bill with the munic would include rates and taxes.  When selling a property, it is a standard practice by the munic to take an amount to make sure they are covered "just in case" as you call it. 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 08:19:33 am by TheBear »
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2019, 09:14:55 am »
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter
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Offline TheBear

Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2019, 09:36:52 am »
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter

People compare the load shedding we just had and then compare this summer with coming winter.  Remember that Eskom, because it was summer took 10 000MW of generating capacity off line for planned maintenance.  That should be back by start of winter.   (seriously holding thumbs here)

Remember, many skelm idiots in Eskom.  Also, many hard working, intelligent, proud employees.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 09:37:59 am by TheBear »
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Offline Bundu

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2019, 10:40:34 am »
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter

AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does
 

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Re: Load shedding and the economy
« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2019, 10:59:04 am »
AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

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