How to get your old Adventure Bikes repaired FOR FREE in South Africa

[Bundu]

maybe there should be two different bike hiring setups?
One for people that want perfect bikes, no scratches, nice paint job, everything pretty
and another for people that will drop the bike, a couple of times..... and not be responsible for 'cosmetic' damage and only for mechanical/electrical damage?

[Vintage_Mania]

maybe there should be two different bike hiring setups?
One for people that want perfect bikes, no scratches, nice paint job, everything pretty
and another for people that will drop the bike, a couple of times..... and not be responsible for 'cosmetic' damage and only for mechanical/electrical damage?

Imagine how those bikes will look after two trips in the hands of French nationals. I will bet you 600 Euros this same poster would have been all over the internet bleating about the shocking condition the bikes were received in for their trip had they opted for choice no2.

[Bundu]

maybe there should be two different bike hiring setups?
One for people that want perfect bikes, no scratches, nice paint job, everything pretty
and another for people that will drop the bike, a couple of times..... and not be responsible for 'cosmetic' damage and only for mechanical/electrical damage?

Imagine how those bikes will look after two trips in the hands of French nationals. I will bet you 600 Euros this same poster would have been all over the internet bleating about the shocking condition the bikes were received in for their trip had they opted for choice no2.

but surely get my point? cosmetic, versus mechanical damage... I realise it's a thin line, but does it really make sense respraying a bike after every ride?

[Operator]

but surely get my point? cosmetic, versus mechanical damage... I realise it's a thin line, but does it really make sense respraying a bike after every ride?

As per my earlier post. http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=235339.msg4225490#msg4225490

The rental company must be reimbursed for damage caused to their bike(s)
Technically, it is their choice to use the money to repair or not.
They must just be reimbursed. It is fair.

[Bundu]

but surely get my point? cosmetic, versus mechanical damage... I realise it's a thin line, but does it really make sense respraying a bike after every ride?

As per my earlier post. http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=235339.msg4225490#msg4225490

The rental company must be reimbursed for damage caused to their bike(s)
Technically, it is their choice to use the money to repair or not.
They must just be reimbursed. It is fair.

I understand that

I just think that it would make sense if a renting company existed, that rented bikes, obviously not pristine, based on mechanical and not cosmetic damage?

[pwt]

Imagine you've paid good money to reserve your rental and you arrive to pick it up, and you get presented this (what appears to be fucked) motorcycle, only to be told that you have no need to worry,  that despite the looks, the bike is actually mechanically sound- I am sorry but it is at that point that I would walk away and kick up a stink
I think that I  represent the majority of us bikers that use our bikes offroad and still keep them in pristine condition

According to Wikipedia-
Rat bikes are motorcycles that are styled to look like they have fallen apart over time and have been kept on the road and maintained for little or no cost by employing kludge fixes. Survival bikes look similar to but are different in purpose from rat bikes; they are modified for stylistic reasons

[sidetrack]

Big difference between rat bikes en ones pulled through ones arse vs used but well maintained. I have seen many bikes with scuffed panels and crash bars that is mechaniclly 100% Some might even say these are the real adventure bikes  :peepwall
This is a difficult market though and first glance opinions is important as well.

[Africanus]

R6150 for repair and paint? Hayibo!

The only thing realistically paintable on a KLR is the tank.

I like what Bundu says. I would much rather rent a bike with some honest battle scars than a pristine unit that you must nanny for fear of damaging the paint.

[Vintage_Mania]

R6150 for repair and paint? Hayibo!

The only thing realistically paintable on a KLR is the tank.

I like what Bundu says. I would much rather rent a bike with some honest battle scars than a pristine unit that you must nanny for fear of damaging the paint.

And if you stand at the rental company in Romania and they show you the battle scarred rent-a-bike, how do you equate that to “mechanically sound and reliable”? Take the word of the operator renting it out?

I’d much rather take the prestine bike, thank you very much. Also, as with any deposit, it should be budgeted for as a possible complete loss. Don’t use your grocery monies for that, hey.

[Fuzzy Muzzy]

Welcome Ber, yes we south africans are a bunch of crooks, whether it is Zuma stealing  or as in your case, but hope everything gets resolved, i cannot believe that people in the rental fraternity do this, but i went the same way in the past with people in the towing business.

Speak for yourself mate.. I would rather not be tarred with your crook brush 

[XTZFegen]

Anyone charging only a R10k deposit for a trip through Lesotho is very brave even on a KLR. Id take that all day everyday. Ive been party to entire headlights units needing to be repalced. Ive see  frames crack. Ive seen guys almost get hit by 3rd party drivers and go down to try avoid an accident.

Lesotho is a bike breaker and R10k deposit to me is minmal.

I wonder what they, as experienced EU bikers, had put aside budget wise for any repairs that might arise from a Lesotho trip? Would be interesting to find out what these repairs would cost in Euros as well.

Bloody great question. What is a R10k deposit in Euro's? Must be next to nothing for these boys. 

To be honest I still cant believe this is all over R10k. I seriously think a R10k deposit to hire a bike for a Lesotho trip is not unreasonable and if damages occured then that is what the deposit is for. Just man the fuck up and accept it. Cant be fighting over R10k if you dropped the mans bike and caused damage. If I borrowed a bike from a mate and dropped it Id make sure I paid to fix it back to its original condition.

Cant understand this chap moaning about it. Just pay up, forget about it and focus on the cool memories. Lesotho is a special place to ride a bike.

[Straatkat]

Like XTZ said, I can't believe this tread has gone to 6 pages debating something that is so cut and dry. The bikes got damaged and the riders/renters have to pay for that. Nothing more to say.

[Kobus Myburgh]

Somewhere along the lines I must be missing something?  What I read is the following:

The OP admitted to damaging some of the bikes, he even acknowledged some of the costs in a fair amount of detail.  He however feels that some of the costs are exorbitant and requests proof of repair/justification instead of the quotes received.  By the sound of things he has been requesting this for a substantial period of time, without success, resorting to legal proceedings, which is still unanswered.  Hence his grievance.  Not?

To date our Wilddog jury have not been subject to any photographic evidence of said damage, making it impossible to conclude that the resultant damage is justification to withholding said deposit x 3 = R30,000.  To repair and respray to the amount of +-R6k on one bike, over and above Powdercoating, must be quite a bit of damage. 

I’m totally impartial to this debate, since there’s simply way too little facts to side with either party.  What does infuriate me is the recent experience with another rental company.  Bikes were presented in a dirty state, brake lever bent, oil levels low, chain tension incorrect, spoke broken and completely absent, heated grips wiring loose etc.  This was on bikes 4 - 5 times the worth of a KLR, not that it should make a difference.  The question that arise is whether the previous client paid for these defects/damages? 
And if this is the case, the money was taken without the repairs being done?

I guess this remains the prerogative of the owner, but sure as shit leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.  Is this not perhaps what the OP is trying to get across?

[Campbell McCurrach]

Apologies for the wait gentlemen. It takes time to repair bikes when you are waiting for certain spares and the bikes are being slotted in and out by your mechanic in between other jobs. Final invoicing received today so I can now share all three bikes invoices along with a bank payment history. All of which can be verified with the workshop directly by dear Bertrand should he wish to vet the same for himself or his compatriots.

It also needs to be understood that these clients were presented with reasonable proof of cost by way of credible quotes as one does not get invoiced until the work is complete and if we'd waited till settlement of the  workshop account in order to detail the clients final account well, we'd surely have been accused of running a scam in any event. Truth is the invoiced costs landed up being more than what we claimed and that is to the Frenchman's benefit and our detriment. Se la vie is the correct term right?

I have noted certain comments relating to line item costs from members pertaining to painting and powder coating and repairing in general etc. Let me say this, we're not KLR owners farkling here in our own garage on a Sunday afternoon, the work is outsourced to professionals so mind your frame of reference as possibly not being trade related on a materials, time, labour and transport cost basis. We also don't use back yard vendors because you land up with back yard look bikes.

Most other businesses would summarily have retained the security deposit without any justification offered. You'll enjoy the same from Avis et al.

I'm not going to harp on about three bikes being out of service for 3months and the impact on us as a business. That's just part of game but it's worth thinking about the French connections overall impact on us for sake of some perspective.

The bikes left our premises in immaculate condition as would be attested to by anyone who knows our bikes. We have now finally returned them to near same condition and not dolled them up from banged up bikes as the title of this thread elludes to.

Bertrand, whilst making unqualified accusations about scamming and con jobs on a public forum which is closely linked to the industry we serve and work in you have effectively committed defamation of character and it remains to be seen what impact it has on our business. This is grounds for litigation in itself and with far more substantiating evidence vis-avis cause of action in ABS's favour than your own so you'd do well to think that over before you proceed with any further bitching on this forum.

Kindly note all that follows which includes:

1) invoices
2) proof of payment
3) a few sample images of damages
4) the terms of agreement relating to the hire of the bikes

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[Campbell McCurrach]

Somewhere along the lines I must be missing something?  What I read is the following:

The OP admitted to damaging some of the bikes, he even acknowledged some of the costs in a fair amount of detail.  He however feels that some of the costs are exorbitant and requests proof of repair/justification instead of the quotes received.  By the sound of things he has been requesting this for a substantial period of time, without success, resorting to legal proceedings, which is still unanswered.  Hence his grievance.  Not?

To date our Wilddog jury have not been subject to any photographic evidence of said damage, making it impossible to conclude that the resultant damage is justification to withholding said deposit x 3 = R30,000.  To repair and respray to the amount of +-R6k on one bike, over and above Powdercoating, must be quite a bit of damage. 

I’m totally impartial to this debate, since there’s simply way too little facts to side with either party.  What does infuriate me is the recent experience with another rental company.  Bikes were presented in a dirty state, brake lever bent, oil levels low, chain tension incorrect, spoke broken and completely absent, heated grips wiring loose etc.  This was on bikes 4 - 5 times the worth of a KLR, not that it should make a difference.  The question that arise is whether the previous client paid for these defects/damages? 
And if this is the case, the money was taken without the repairs being done?

I guess this remains the prerogative of the owner, but sure as shit leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.  Is this not perhaps what the OP is trying to get across?

Not something that one would ever experience with us. Customers always find the bikes clean, in perfect nick and with one of these 10point checklists completed for them to verify for themselves.

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[Fudmucker]

Guys, I suggest you actually read the terms and conditions of rental next time you take a hire CAR. 
You will be surprised. 
Even shocked at what you agree to. 


A broker I spoke to told me that for a motorcycle rented commercially to multiple riders,
one could expect an annual premium of R30k-R40k depending on the value of the bike.
Minimum excess payment per claim would be around R10k.

Anyone else have figures?

[Campbell McCurrach]

Guys, I suggest you actually read the terms and conditions of rental next time you take a hire CAR. 
You will be surprised. 
Even shocked at what you agree to. 


A broker I spoke to told me that for a motorcycle rented commercially to multiple riders,
one could expect an annual premium of R30k-R40k depending on the value of the bike.
Minimum excess payment per claim would be around R10k.

Anyone else have figures?

These figures are about right for lower end bikes. We charge less than half what a person can expect to pay in daily rental of a new GS1200 hired from say Motoberlin (circa R2500 per day). Simple reason being that we have attempted to offer a more budget friendly product to the market. With the likes of Motoberlin and Bavaria etc. One can also expect to pay deposit R20-R25k and in some instances upwards of those figures as security deposits.

Whether or not the comparatives are insuring for damages, 3rd party and loss I do not know. What I do however know is that if you add the aforesaid cover to professional indemnity cover which a registered bona fide touring company must have according to Deoartment of Tourism law then it becomes an economically unviable business as a substantial portion of your margin is lost to insurance and the nearly all that remains to maintenance.

You will find that in respect of incidental damages that most operators will to some extent self-insure in order to try remain profitable.

As mentioned previously, this is the first time we decided to allow a self-guided tour to occur with the bikes. Usually we have the benefit of judging competence, skill levels, setting pace and ensuring that bikes and riders are not exposed to unnecessary risk. We also usually have the benefit of tending to ongoing maintenance of the bikes whilst on tour I.e. chain tensions, lubrication and coolant checks etc.

First and last time we ever play Avis.

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[Wild Hearted Son]

Guys, I suggest you actually read the terms and conditions of rental next time you take a hire CAR. 
You will be surprised. 
Even shocked at what you agree to. 

100% agree  - the devil's in the details ....or at least in the small print.

[pwt]

Guys, I suggest you actually read the terms and conditions of rental next time you take a hire CAR. 
You will be surprised. 
Even shocked at what you agree to. 

100% agree  - the devil's in the details ....or at least in the small print.

Those are true words spoken in most contractual agreements, but in this instance the terms are reasonable and straightforward and also not small and hidden away

Wikipedia's interpretation of "small print"
Fine print, small print, or "mouseprint" is less noticeable print smaller than the more obvious larger print it accompanies that advertises or otherwise describes or partially describes a commercial product or service.[1] The larger print that is used in conjunction with fine print by the merchant often has the effect of deceiving the consumer into believing the offer is more advantageous than it really is. This may satisfy a legal technicality which requires full disclosure of all (even unfavorable) terms or conditions, but does not specify the manner (size, typeface, coloring, etc.) of disclosure. There is strong evidence that suggests the fine print is not read by the majority of consumers.[2]

Fine print may say the opposite of what the larger print says. For example, if the larger print says "pre-approved" the fine print might say "subject to approval". [3] Especially in pharmaceutical advertisements, fine print may accompany a warning message, but this message is often neutralized by the more eye-catching positive images and pleasant background music (eye candy). Sometimes television advertisements flash text fine print in camouflagic colors, and for brief periods of time, making it difficult or impossible for the viewer to read.   

[Bill the Bong]

Its not really clear whether you charged the oil/filters/plugs/brakefluid and tyres to the clients or not, as that would normally be part of the rental expenses.  As for the cost of the damage repair: that looks perfectly in line with what it costs.