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Author Topic: Dakar to move to Middle East  (Read 1235 times)

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Offline LoopSoosStroop

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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2019, 11:44:27 am »
I really don't see the issue in moving the Dakar to Middle East.....
There has been quite some negativity on FB regarding the move.

But those guys in the Middle East are Nuts about MotorSports in general and have the cash to throw at these events in a big way, which can "hopefully"only bring more viewers and followers to the sport......... More awareness & publicity surely cant be a bad thing.

And new terrain + new challenges...... should be interesting.

The problem is not the terrain or motorsport interest or money, but it is the perceived human rights issues in Saudi and their treatment of women, journalists, foreigners and attitude towards negative criticism. In some cases it's a dangerous country to travel to.
 

Offline CDog

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2019, 12:06:30 pm »
I really don't see the issue in moving the Dakar to Middle East.....
There has been quite some negativity on FB regarding the move.

But those guys in the Middle East are Nuts about MotorSports in general and have the cash to throw at these events in a big way, which can "hopefully"only bring more viewers and followers to the sport......... More awareness & publicity surely cant be a bad thing.

And new terrain + new challenges...... should be interesting.
The problem is not the terrain or motorsport interest or money, but it is the perceived human rights issues in Saudi and their treatment of women, journalists, foreigners and attitude towards negative criticism. In some cases it's a dangerous country to travel to.

Completely understand this side of the story............... But if Saudi Arabia wishes to make a success of the event, they will have no choice but to step up and start operating in accordance with "western / global" requirements................ going to be interesting to watch events unfold.
 
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Offline Neo_za

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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2019, 06:39:48 pm »
Just dont criticise the Saudi's for fear of assasination (think Jamal Khashoggi), or openly state that you are an atheist (branded as a terrorist). Also remember to wipe any porn from your phone before you land...............  :eek7:

Ja right....sounds like a wonderful place to host an international ralley
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2019, 07:34:19 pm »
I really don't see the issue in moving the Dakar to Middle East.....
There has been quite some negativity on FB regarding the move.

But those guys in the Middle East are Nuts about MotorSports in general and have the cash to throw at these events in a big way, which can "hopefully"only bring more viewers and followers to the sport......... More awareness & publicity surely cant be a bad thing.

And new terrain + new challenges...... should be interesting.

There is no doubt that the money was a great big attraction along with the terrain. There are a fuckload of unhappy people many saying that DAKAR has sold out for the money and not seriously considered Saudi's human rights record and abuse of women.
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Offline chicco

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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2019, 11:00:30 am »
This is great news. My wife always wanted to go overseas and Dubia is one of the cheapest flights from Durban.  :thumleft:
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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2019, 11:54:35 am »
I lived in Saudi for three years, my thoughts:


Amazing terrain, the Wadi’s are quite special.


I do think Saudi is making good strides; when I worked there, the weekend was Thursday PM and Friday; now they have somewhat ‘synced’ with the rest of the world, the weekend being Friday & Saturday, so little changes are coming, such as women being allowed to drive, a good development, much needed.


I think an event of this magnitude will ‘open up’ Saudi further; visitors may get to see a different (mostly positive) way of life, and the local Saudi’s will get to see just how capable women drivers/riders are - thinking of Laia Sanz, here!


I was pissed off at the tragic Kashoggi incident, and think this set their Intl relations back significantly.


But am now interested in seeing my old temp stomping ground 20 years on, AND a Rally, to boot.
Change is good; bring it on, let’s see how it pans out.
Chris



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Offline Neo_za

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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2019, 05:51:20 pm »
Perhaps they will stop the executions for the duration of the race....

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/saudi-arabia-mass-execution-beheading

 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2019, 05:59:49 pm »
Yes chilling to say the least  :-\   
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Offline Tom van Brits

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2019, 08:30:26 pm »
Very good news and wrt some worries:

- Like some has already metioned, Arabian people love motorsports BIG TIME
- No worries wrt international female competitors; there are a number of sports including some REDBULL challenges with female participants
- Alcohol: Again nothing to worry about because their laws are only against alcohol usage in public places. Private usage is and was never a problem, I have spent quite a bit of time there while working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Licenced pubs are also no issue; who of you that has done international traveling through Dubai did not enjoy a beer in the famous Irish pup in the international airport, or ar Marabu a few pases down the same terminal?

Exciting times, and glad they did not do the easy thing by discontinuing the famous race but rather moved it to Saudi!
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2019, 08:44:54 pm »
Very good news and wrt some worries:

- Like some has already metioned, Arabian people love motorsports BIG TIME
- No worries wrt international female competitors; there are a number of sports including some REDBULL challenges with female participants
- Alcohol: Again nothing to worry about because their laws are only against alcohol usage in public places. Private usage is and was never a problem, I have spent quite a bit of time there while working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Licenced pubs are also no issue; who of you that has done international traveling through Dubai did not enjoy a beer in the famous Irish pup in the international airport, or ar Marabu a few pases down the same terminal?

Exciting times, and glad they did not do the easy thing by discontinuing the famous race but rather moved it to Saudi!

Tom, as far as I understand they are moving it to Saudi Arabia, not Dubai. From the little I know Saudi Arabia is much stricter than Dubai - it opened for tourists only very recently, while Dubai marketed itself as tourist destination for decades.

Which female competitions or Redbull events have you seen in Saudi Arabia? I think you are mixing apples and oranges here... sorry.

I have mixed feelings about this move. On one hand as Chris is saying it may be an opportunity to open this very conservative place a bit more. On the other hand they may just use this as public stunt to boost their international image while covering up for much darker side hidden underneath (like those executions and female treatment)

Offline Tom van Brits

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2019, 10:17:46 am »
Sorry not Saudi, but Abu Dhabi. It was either base jumping or wingsuit skydiving. I love these dare devils with marbles way bigger than mine, just like the Dakar bike racers.

A common mistake some of us make is to confuse the Arabian countries with each other. Saudi is way more conservative, I know medical nursing personnel that works there and the rule are strict.

Regardless, I stand with my view. Rather move and try new venues and I am sure alcohol will only bug some spectators and not the participants and works teams.
 

Offline Skaiidawg

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2019, 11:04:44 am »
Just dont criticise the Saudi's for fear of assasination (think Jamal Khashoggi), or openly state that you are an atheist (branded as a terrorist). Also remember to wipe any porn from your phone before you land...............  :eek7:

Ja right....sounds like a wonderful place to host an international ralley

You do live in a country with laws, dont you? Well it is against the law to be in possession of porn or alcohol, so obey the laws and no problem.

And to top it of, have you been to KSA? In all the times I have flown in and out of KSA they have NEVER checked either my laptop, external HD's or phones.

To be clear I have flown into KSA 6 times already this year.
Courtesy from Grizz: In this day and age religion is often frowned upon, but I have met some of the most amazing people from various religions over time.
From Buddhists to Sikhs, through Muslims and Christians and everything in between, there are many good people out there and if you do not allow yourself to be swayed by petulant religious opinion, the world is an awesome place with the odd idiot in between trying to make it rubbish for others.
 

Offline Vintage_Mania

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2019, 11:21:12 am »
Just dont criticise the Saudi's for fear of assasination (think Jamal Khashoggi), or openly state that you are an atheist (branded as a terrorist). Also remember to wipe any porn from your phone before you land...............  :eek7:

Ja right....sounds like a wonderful place to host an international ralley

You do live in a country with laws, dont you? Well it is against the law to be in possession of porn or alcohol, so obey the laws and no problem.

And to top it of, have you been to KSA? In all the times I have flown in and out of KSA they have NEVER checked either my laptop, external HD's or phones.

To be clear I have flown into KSA 6 times already this year.

Are you serious?
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 
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Offline Skaiidawg

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2019, 11:30:07 am »
Lots of negativity about the race being moved to KSA, almost everyone is on about their human rights record and treatment of women. Changes are happening.
To put it in perspective - as of 2016 China have executed more then 1000 people in total, KSA less then 200. According to Wiki and Amnesty International about 1000 prisoners were executed in 2017.
No one is critisizing China and the Silk Way rally is happening.

I do not condone the death penalty in the way KSA have done it, far from it, but give them a chance.
Most South Africans don't condone the shit that is happening in SA, but everyone wants foreigners to come and visit.
Courtesy from Grizz: In this day and age religion is often frowned upon, but I have met some of the most amazing people from various religions over time.
From Buddhists to Sikhs, through Muslims and Christians and everything in between, there are many good people out there and if you do not allow yourself to be swayed by petulant religious opinion, the world is an awesome place with the odd idiot in between trying to make it rubbish for others.
 

Offline Skaiidawg

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2019, 11:31:41 am »
Just dont criticise the Saudi's for fear of assasination (think Jamal Khashoggi), or openly state that you are an atheist (branded as a terrorist). Also remember to wipe any porn from your phone before you land...............  :eek7:

Ja right....sounds like a wonderful place to host an international ralley

You do live in a country with laws, dont you? Well it is against the law to be in possession of porn or alcohol, so obey the laws and no problem.

And to top it of, have you been to KSA? In all the times I have flown in and out of KSA they have NEVER checked either my laptop, external HD's or phones.

To be clear I have flown into KSA 6 times already this year.

Are you serious?

We are talking about KSA
Yes it is against the law to be in possession of porn or alcohol in Saudi Arabia (KSA)
Courtesy from Grizz: In this day and age religion is often frowned upon, but I have met some of the most amazing people from various religions over time.
From Buddhists to Sikhs, through Muslims and Christians and everything in between, there are many good people out there and if you do not allow yourself to be swayed by petulant religious opinion, the world is an awesome place with the odd idiot in between trying to make it rubbish for others.
 

Offline Vintage_Mania

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2019, 11:32:48 am »
No worries, mate. I'll leave it at that.  :thumleft:
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 

Offline Neo_za

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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2019, 11:35:11 am »
@ Skaiidawg - seems you do not understand the position as to human (particularly female) rights in Saudi. Nor the fact that the death penalty and assasination is used as political tools to crush dissent against what is, effectively, a brutal dictatorship.

Having your head removed on charges of sorcery and executing juveniles is not my idea of a civilised country.

It really does not matter if you have flown into Saudi 6 times - it does not change their dismal human rights record.


 

Offline Skaiidawg

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2019, 11:45:09 am »
@Neo_za . I do understand it perfectly. I do not discriminate against anybody, does not matter who they are. I agree the track record of KSA is not good with regards to their human rights, it is changing. Look at how the UAE have changed.

My flying into KSA was not trying to justify their human rights record but in answer to your porn on mobile comment.

Read my second comment again
Courtesy from Grizz: In this day and age religion is often frowned upon, but I have met some of the most amazing people from various religions over time.
From Buddhists to Sikhs, through Muslims and Christians and everything in between, there are many good people out there and if you do not allow yourself to be swayed by petulant religious opinion, the world is an awesome place with the odd idiot in between trying to make it rubbish for others.
 

Offline Neo_za

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Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2019, 12:09:25 pm »
Your position, it seems, is that the Dakar can help with  reforms which is a possibility i suppose.

I, personally, do not see it that way and rather hope that teams will boikot the event - which also applies pressure.

Will be interesting to see what happens.
 

Offline Skaiidawg

Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2019, 05:19:35 pm »
I understand what you are saying, but I feel everyone should get a chance to try and change. So you want to have teams boikot the Dakar to put pressure on KSA, should we not rather boikot the importing of their oil where it will have a much bigger and and monetary effect?
Courtesy from Grizz: In this day and age religion is often frowned upon, but I have met some of the most amazing people from various religions over time.
From Buddhists to Sikhs, through Muslims and Christians and everything in between, there are many good people out there and if you do not allow yourself to be swayed by petulant religious opinion, the world is an awesome place with the odd idiot in between trying to make it rubbish for others.