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Author Topic: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??  (Read 534 times)

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Offline Serfie

Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« on: July 29, 2019, 02:43:13 pm »
I have recently had the KLR650 and DR650 rims converted to tubeless at Cytech. Now they strongly suggest/insist that I in future only use tubeless tyres on these rims.

All these photos that I see all over of bikes with tubeless rims, i.e. 1200 GS's , sporting tubed off road tyres...are they wrong? For those in the ""know how""...Please advise whether it is considered unsafe to fit a tubed tyre on a tubeless rim. If that is the case..one has just so little choice of tube less tyres on the market. 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 02:44:27 pm by Serfie »
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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2019, 05:59:02 pm »
Maybe someone in the know should tell us the exact difference between the 2 ............................ then base your choice on that?
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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2019, 06:40:11 pm »
.
 

Offline Maverick

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2019, 08:36:55 am »
I think it has something to do with the strength of the bead on tubeless and tubed tyres. I had an issue on my R80GS where the front wheel would just deflate randomly without puncture or reason. It was @Fudmucker who pointed out that I had a tubed tyre on a tubeless rim and the bead don't seal properly like a tubeless would do. So I had to put a tube in the tyre until I replaced again with the correct rubber.

If you have done the conversion to tubeless and still need to run tubed tyres it would be a pointless exercise.

Hopefully someone else would be able to confirm above  :thumleft:
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Offline RobC

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2019, 08:53:27 am »
Tubeless tyres have a stronger bead and a sealant layer that tubed tyres do not have... :deal:

Go ahead and use tubed tyres on tubeless... it is not my skin... :sip:
 

Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2019, 09:00:41 am »
how many tubeless tyre options do you want? they are all over
(and I don't know guys running tubed tyres on big tubeless bikes, its definitely not common or the norm)
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Offline RobC

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2019, 10:43:43 am »
how many tubeless tyre options do you want? they are all over
(and I don't know guys running tubed tyres on big tubeless bikes, its definitely not common or the norm)
and the first thing checked by insurance when there is a claim btw. :deal:
 

Offline manxkipper

Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2019, 10:50:53 am »
Tubeless rims have an extra lip behind the outer lip that secures the tubeless tyre. Normal tubed rims don't have that extra lip. Running a tubeless tyre on a tube type rim or tube type tyres without tubes on tubeless rims would be dodgy practices. Without the extra lip to hold the tyre bead in place a tube tyre without tube would not be safe on a tubeless rim. There should be no reason why one couldn't have tube type tyres with tubes on a tubeless rim. I expect one could run tubeless tyres with tubes on a tube type rim too.
 
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Offline RobC

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2019, 10:54:50 am »
Tubeless rims have an extra lip behind the outer lip that secures the tubeless tyre. Normal tubed rims don't have that extra lip. Running a tubeless tyre on a tube type rim or tube type tyres without tubes on tubeless rims would be dodgy practices. Without the extra lip to hold the tyre bead in place a tube tyre without tube would not be safe on a tubeless rim. There should be no reason why one couldn't have tube type tyres with tubes on a tubeless rim. I expect one could run tubeless tyres with tubes on a tube type rim too.
Correct, always a tube in a tube type tyre, always a tube in the tyre on a tube rim. If it says tube use a tube... >:D :biggrin:
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Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2019, 11:20:09 am »
how many tubeless tyre options do you want? they are all over
(and I don't know guys running tubed tyres on big tubeless bikes, its definitely not common or the norm)
and the first thing checked by insurance when there is a claim btw. :deal:

Snot true

BTW
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 11:21:23 am by m0lt3n »
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Offline RobC

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2019, 12:21:44 pm »
how many tubeless tyre options do you want? they are all over
(and I don't know guys running tubed tyres on big tubeless bikes, its definitely not common or the norm)
and the first thing checked by insurance when there is a claim btw. :deal:

Snot true

BTW
Then why did my insurance want photos with my claim? :sip:
 

Offline manxkipper

Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2019, 12:25:34 pm »
Perhaps checking legality of the tyre tread depth?
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2019, 12:28:10 pm »
I have recently had the KLR650 and DR650 rims converted to tubeless at Cytech. Now they strongly suggest/insist that I in future only use tubeless tyres on these rims.

All these photos that I see all over of bikes with tubeless rims, i.e. 1200 GS's , sporting tubed off road tyres...are they wrong? For those in the ""know how""...Please advise whether it is considered unsafe to fit a tubed tyre on a tubeless rim. If that is the case..one has just so little choice of tube less tyres on the market.

What does it mean to have rims converted to tubeless? Two options I can think of:
A. You bought somewhere new specialized rims for huge bucks that have the lip that manxkipper talks about and are airtight.
B. They took your existing rims and made them airtight by putting some kind of solution around the spokes (tape or some kind of glue). Unless they welded the lip onto the rims (I'm sure they didn't), they are still 'lipless', i.e. do not have that additional support for tubeless tyres.

If A is correct, you have tubeless rim and can ride them with tubeless tyres without tube, or with tubed tyres WITH tube (definitely wouldn't risk using tubed tyre without tube, for reasons described by others - softer sidewall on tubed tyre and no lip to mate with the rim.

If B is correct, as I'm pretty sure is the case, you don't have tubeless rims (because they lack the lip of real tubeless rim that secures), only airtight tubed rims. You should be safe (or at least as safe as you were before the 'conversion) to ride those with tubed as well as tubeless tyres, provided you use tubes in both cases (in other words you just wasted your time and money getting them 'tubeless'). I would not recommend to ride with tubed tyre without tube inside on those rims (or any other).

With tubeless tyres on that tubed rim,without tube you still take chances as it doesn't have the lip, but hey - there are other people who do that so it's your call.

And yes - there is pretty limited choice of tubeless tyres (much better for tubed) for proper offroad. However I think there is reasonable selection of tubeless tyres available for normal adventure riding - I'm just not sure whether these are available in your rim sizes as bigger bike for which these are made have usually bigger sizes rims (partially to accommodate the tubeless and rim - like in the case on 790, for which for proper offroad tyre selection KTM sells aftermarket more narrow rims).

Offline RobC

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2019, 12:31:33 pm »
Perhaps checking legality of the tyre tread depth?
They then asked if I had tubes fitted as the front was a tubeless at the time... :sip:
Hence my statement of playing roulette with your insurance... ::)
 

Offline Grunder

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2019, 12:39:45 pm »
I have recently had the KLR650 and DR650 rims converted to tubeless at Cytech. Now they strongly suggest/insist that I in future only use tubeless tyres on these rims.

All these photos that I see all over of bikes with tubeless rims, i.e. 1200 GS's , sporting tubed off road tyres...are they wrong? For those in the ""know how""...Please advise whether it is considered unsafe to fit a tubed tyre on a tubeless rim. If that is the case..one has just so little choice of tube less tyres on the market.

What does it mean to have rims converted to tubeless? Two options I can think of:
A. You bought somewhere new specialized rims for huge bucks that have the lip that manxkipper talks about and are airtight.
B. They took your existing rims and made them airtight by putting some kind of solution around the spokes (tape or some kind of glue). Unless they welded the lip onto the rims (I'm sure they didn't), they are still 'lipless', i.e. do not have that additional support for tubeless tyres.

If A is correct, you have tubeless rim and can ride them with tubeless tyres without tube, or with tubed tyres WITH tube (definitely wouldn't risk using tubed tyre without tube, for reasons described by others - softer sidewall on tubed tyre and no lip to mate with the rim.

If B is correct, as I'm pretty sure is the case, you don't have tubeless rims (because they lack the lip of real tubeless rim that secures), only airtight tubed rims. You should be safe (or at least as safe as you were before the 'conversion) to ride those with tubed as well as tubeless tyres, provided you use tubes in both cases (in other words you just wasted your time and money getting them 'tubeless'). I would not recommend to ride with tubed tyre without tube inside on those rims (or any other).

With tubeless tyres on that tubed rim,without tube you still take chances as it doesn't have the lip, but hey - there are other people who do that so it's your call.

And yes - there is pretty limited choice of tubeless tyres (much better for tubed) for proper offroad. However I think there is reasonable selection of tubeless tyres available for normal adventure riding - I'm just not sure whether these are available in your rim sizes as bigger bike for which these are made have usually bigger sizes rims (partially to accommodate the tubeless and rim - like in the case on 790, for which for proper offroad tyre selection KTM sells aftermarket more narrow rims).

I'm not in the market for tubeless tires, but, reputable companies (one of which is in Bloem) are selling the service of converting your existing rims. 
I was given a quote on my existing tubed 800gs.  They say they have done it 100's of times, no comebacks.

Are we saying these guys are blatantly putting us and their reputations at risk?
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Offline TheBear

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2019, 12:42:50 pm »
Perhaps checking legality of the tyre tread depth?
They then asked if I had tubes fitted as the front was a tubeless at the time... :sip:
Hence my statement of playing roulette with your insurance... ::)

What would your insurance have said, if you replied: "I don't know.  I am no tyre or technical expert.  I just the ride it.  You would have to go ask the people who last worked on the front wheel?"
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Offline RobC

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2019, 12:47:06 pm »

What would your insurance have said, if you replied: "I don't know.  I am no tyre or technical expert.  I just the ride it.  You would have to go ask the people who last worked on the front wheel?"
They implied they would do an inspection by their local assessor if I did not furnish the information... as I was ok I had no issue with their nosiness... ::)
 

Offline Xpat

Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2019, 12:48:05 pm »
What I'm saying is that as far as I know, none of this conversions will materialize the mating lip on your rim, only make it airtight. While my 1150GSA had a lip on the rim to ensure the tubeless tyre doesn't slip off - I"m guessing other tubeless rims have that as well, but not 100% sure.

Whether you are happy to ride with them like that or not, is your call. I ride Tubeliss on tar which is also illegal as far as I know - I'm aware of that and just take informed risk. Do your own research on whatever solution you are looking at and decide based on what you find out.

Offline Grunder

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2019, 12:51:25 pm »
What I'm saying is that as far as I know, none of this conversions will materialize the mating lip on your rim, only make it airtight. While my 1150GSA had a lip on the rim to ensure the tubeless tyre doesn't slip off - I"m guessing other tubeless rims have that as well, but not 100% sure.

Whether you are happy to ride with them like that or not, is your call. I ride Tubeliss on tar which is also illegal as far as I know - I'm aware of that and just take informed risk. Do your own research on whatever solution you are looking at and decide based on what you find out.

Why is it/would it be illegal?
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Tubed tyres on tubeless rims??
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2019, 12:53:05 pm »
What I'm saying is that as far as I know, none of this conversions will materialize the mating lip on your rim, only make it airtight. While my 1150GSA had a lip on the rim to ensure the tubeless tyre doesn't slip off - I"m guessing other tubeless rims have that as well, but not 100% sure.

Whether you are happy to ride with them like that or not, is your call. I ride Tubeliss on tar which is also illegal as far as I know - I'm aware of that and just take informed risk. Do your own research on whatever solution you are looking at and decide based on what you find out.

Why is it/would it be illegal?
Because the Tubeliss system says clearly on the box not for highway / on road use
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