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Offline heti

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Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« on: August 16, 2019, 08:59:31 am »
I have said this before in a different thread, but the amount of off-track riding that is allowed on these trips is not cool!!  Some of those new tracks will be visible for years to come.  I am not talking about the riverbed riding around Purros etc. 

 I really think the tour operator should enforce this better!!   :(
 
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Offline Hardy de Kock

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Re: Re: Namibia - Specialised riding bliss!
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2019, 11:02:27 am »
I have said this before in a different thread, but the amount of off-track riding that is allowed on these trips is not cool!!  Some of those new tracks will be visible for years to come.  I am not talking about the riverbed riding around Purros etc. 

 I really think the tour operator should enforce this better!!   :(

@heti

Where in the video did you see the off-track riding that you mentioned? I would love to answer you but I need you to be a little more specific.
Can you tell me why you do not have a problem with riverbed riding around Purros?
Our trails (gps mapped routes) is plotted on existing trails which consists of single, two spoor and and D-roads.
The riders on the trips are not irresponsible, and I have never had to reprimand anyone on respect shown towards the fauna and flora, or towards the local communities.
Please reply to the above, and lets see if we can get you to sleep better at night, knowing all is well in Northern Namibia.

Cheers
Hardy
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 11:03:54 am by Hardy de Kock »
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Offline heti

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Re: Re: Namibia - Specialised riding bliss!
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2019, 12:38:41 pm »
Hardy

The riverbeds are "flushed" once or twice most years, clearing the tracks made by 4x4's and bikes.  Places like the Marienfluss, the open plains between Huarusib and Hoanib rivers, the endless gravel flats north of Orupembe, etc. etc. takes decades to recover from vehicle tracks.  Some of the track pollution is merely someone driving next to the existing track to avoid the corrugations, creating a wider and wider road.  There are even some of the dunefields that are quite sensitive in the areas around Purros.

If this area is not looked after and people educated about the impact they have whilst travelling there, it is just a matter of time before it starts looking like the area around Rosh Pinah where every hill and dune have vehicle tracks on it.   
 
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Offline Hardy de Kock

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Re: Re: Namibia - Specialised riding bliss!
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2019, 01:48:30 pm »
Hardy

The riverbeds are "flushed" once or twice most years, clearing the tracks made by 4x4's and bikes. I agree, but that goes for all the riverbeds, not just the Hoarusib, next to Purros.  Places like the Marienfluss, the open plains between Huarusib and Hoanib rivers, the endless gravel flats north of Orupembe, etc. etc. takes decades to recover from vehicle tracks. How do you suggest people travel down Van Zyl's Pass, towards the south, without crossing the Marienfluss boet?  Some of the track pollution is merely someone driving next to the existing track to avoid the corrugations, creating a wider and wider road. This is true, but neither you nor myself will change the fact that riders or drivers will opt for the corrugation, and in the process endangering themselves and their vehicles, in one of the most isolated areas in Africa. If everyone stayed on the exact track all the time, that track would become impossible to ride or drive.  There are even some of the dunefields that are quite sensitive in the areas around Purros. In terms of vegetation, wildlife or aesthetical?
What would be the perfect scenario for you?- We can discuss this telephonically, or by pm if you don't wish to continue on someone else's thread.


If this area is not looked after and people educated about the impact they have whilst travelling there, it is just a matter of time before it starts looking like the area around Rosh Pinah where every hill and dune have vehicle tracks on it.   

« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 02:03:14 pm by Hardy de Kock »
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Offline zacapa

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Re: Re: Namibia - Specialised riding bliss!
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2019, 07:44:03 pm »
@JBI

Great video, I really enjoyed watching this. I also need to comment regarding heti's observations. He is absolutely correct with what he says. I spent 7 years in Namibia riding my BMW R80, F650 Dakar and XR600R. I've done all those tracks as well. Even back in 2002 Namibia desert etiquette was firmly established and quite simple:

1.You keep to 4x4 tracks and gravel highways generally as far as you can.
2. Enjoy the dry (or wet) riverbeds with your bike or other vehicle - just don't go and piss off the elephants - they are bigger than you and may take exception to your high revving 2 wheeled adventure (don't ask me how I know)
3. Keep off the hard / sandy / pebbly gravel (sensitive) plains in the first place - in other words those areas you are not supposed to leave your tyre marks on for all that drive past to witness for the next 30 years.
4. If there's a low impact sandy area up on the hill next to you it may be a lesser evil you are committing in going there as in point 3 above (my personal opinion)
5. Keep your free riding tracks and evidence thereof in sensitive areas non-existent.

Now Hardy has been putting some amazing adventures together for us ADV / DS riders for a few years now. I'm obviously interested that these kind of adventures continue for years to come, but I can also tell you without a shred of doubt that if free riding in Damara / Kaokoland is encouraged and posted on places like YouTube, tour operators will eventually run into problems. JBI - my recommendation is to delete the video and edit before re-posting on the tube.

Please pass this message on to Campbell Mc C - I don't know who he is on the forum and YouTube does not have options for contacting the originator of the video. Next time round please post the Namibia ECO Rally trip vid for all of us to enjoy :thumleft:
Great video though!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 08:05:09 pm by zacapa »
 
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Offline Kamanya

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Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2019, 06:22:24 pm »
Posts pruned from this outstanding ride report.

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=239867.msg4297186#msg4297186

Just so you know, keep Ride Reports for just that. If you have a beef about anything please start it elsewhere
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Offline Oubones

Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2019, 09:59:39 pm »
I have had the honour to go to NamibiŽ on a few trips with Hardy or under his guidance and he is passionate about the country and making the experience available to all!
In any situation there will always be negatives, but in the case off Specialized Adventures they are committed to doing things in such a way that the industry can continue and Hardy is the first to jump on somebody if they should go off the beaten track or partake off actions that are not correct!
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Offline dirt rat

Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2019, 06:08:59 am »
Heti - maybe you should book a tour with Specialised Adventures and see for yourself before you post an opinion.
Careless statements like these are all that the anti bike brigade needs to gather momentum to curtail our activities as has happened before.
The impact of bikes on the environment is minimal compared to heavy 4wd vehicles and yet they have access to some areas we don't.
I have been to North West Namibia with above outfit and they are professional and passionate in respect to the environment in which they operate.
 
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Offline big oil

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2019, 07:00:17 am »
This feels like a public hit below the belt towards a good man with, from everything I've read, a top shelf tour operation.

This should have been discussed via phone call, private meeting, or private email.

I haven't ridden NAM yet, but when I do, if I choose to do it with a tour company, Hardy is gonna get my cash.

I don't like to read this horse shit, I'm tired, I'm going to bed.

Quit bellyaching, there's much worse things to be concerned about.

Ciao
 

Offline Hardy de Kock

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2019, 07:19:00 am »
This feels like a public hit below the belt towards a good man with, from everything I've read, a top shelf tour operation.

This should have been discussed via phone call, private meeting, or private email.

I haven't ridden NAM yet, but when I do, if I choose to do it with a tour company, Hardy is gonna get my cash.

I don't like to read this horse shit, I'm tired, I'm going to bed.

Quit bellyaching, there's much worse things to be concerned about.

Ciao

Thanks buddy, i owe you.
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Offline eberhard

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2019, 07:19:55 am »
I recall well an advertisement that was broadcasted on NamTV in the early nineties (of the previous century, that is) where pristine desert terrain was shown and then tracks that vehicles had left thereon. The advertisement concluded with these words displayed all over the screen: SPORE IN DIE WOESTYN, IS SPORE WAT NOOIT VERDWYN.
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Offline big oil

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2019, 07:21:02 am »
This feels like a public hit below the belt towards a good man with, from everything I've read, a top shelf tour operation.

This should have been discussed via phone call, private meeting, or private email.

I haven't ridden NAM yet, but when I do, if I choose to do it with a tour company, Hardy is gonna get my cash.

I don't like to read this horse shit, I'm tired, I'm going to bed.

Quit bellyaching, there's much worse things to be concerned about.

Ciao

Thanks buddy, i owe you.

You owe me nothing, just keep running your top shelf operation and take my money  :imaposer:
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 02:01:47 pm by big oil »
 

Online 2StrokeDan

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2019, 07:31:08 am »
This feels like a public hit below the belt towards a good man with, from everything I've read, a top shelf tour operation.

This should have been discussed via phone call, private meeting, or private email.

I haven't ridden NAM yet, but when I do, if I choose to do it with a tour company, Hardy is gonna get my cash.

I don't like to read this horse shit, I'm tired, I'm going to bed.

Quit bellyaching, there's much worse things to be concerned about.

Ciao

From the guys that's left everlasting tracks on the moon. :peepwall: :peepwall: :pot: :pot:

 

Offline dirt rat

Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2019, 07:33:51 am »
Dan - My fok Marelize. >:D
 

Offline big oil

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2019, 07:54:49 am »
This feels like a public hit below the belt towards a good man with, from everything I've read, a top shelf tour operation.

This should have been discussed via phone call, private meeting, or private email.

I haven't ridden NAM yet, but when I do, if I choose to do it with a tour company, Hardy is gonna get my cash.

I don't like to read this horse shit, I'm tired, I'm going to bed.

Quit bellyaching, there's much worse things to be concerned about.

Ciao

From the guys that's left everlasting tracks on the moon. :peepwall: :peepwall: :pot: :pot:

 :imaposer:  That's awesome.  Exactly, track lives don't matter, desert moon sand life doesn't matter, no lives matter man, it's righteous, the world will spin until it experiences its next E.L.E. man, or until Andromeda and the Milky Way, now 2.5 million light years apart, traveling at 402,000 kmh towards one another, collide, that will be bye bye, game over, man, it's gonna be epic :imaposer:
 

Offline Kamanya

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2019, 09:23:24 am »
On this forum we are pretty good at separating out into binary positions when it comes to religion and politics and then it's just a hop and a skip before it gets overly polarised, personal and nasty.

There's not been much debate on the forum in the realm being explored in this thread. Nevertheless, the Environment stirs up quite deep emotions and I foresee the potential for it to go the same way as R&P stuff if we're not mindful.

Play the ball not the man.

 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 09:23:53 am by Kamanya »
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2019, 09:38:50 am »
On this forum we are pretty good at separating out into binary positions when it comes to religion and politics and then it's just a hop and a skip before it gets overly polarised, personal and nasty.

There's not been much debate on the forum in the realm being explored in this thread. Nevertheless, the Environment stirs up quite deep emotions and I foresee the potential for it to go the same way as R&P stuff if we're not mindful.

Play the ball not the man.

I believe that BigOil knows that I'm just taking the piss, judging by his answer, but you're right, it is an [overly] emotional thing, the environment.
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2019, 10:02:18 am »
I do a LOT of plastic riding in and around the Western Cape, mainly 250cc 4T riding.

I belong to an abnormally large amount of riding groups and I can tell you that every now and again these debates come up. The debate, is simple.. motorbikes cause damage to the environment especially when the guys get very heavy handed with their wrist.

I've seen it all, guys cutting fences to get to a farmers koppie, guys on dirtbikes riding bicycle trails.. you name it guys on bikes are doing it.

I tried to preserve a riding area that has been ridden with respect for years until a group of MX riders found it and decided to make their own personal racing track out of it.. they stuffed up the whole area in about 3 months. I've seen guys almost come to blows over a small riding area in Malmsbury because a group of riders found some guys secret riding spot and it subsequently got fenced off.

This thread is no different. No matter what, you will get tour operators like Hardy who  in my opinion take their environment very seriously and you will get tour operators who cannot always control every rider.

In the end, we all have a responsibility and the best way to ensure that is through education. A lot of guys entering the adventure touring market just see a big piece of land, they dont understand the environmental impact of riding around in dunes or on flats.

I think these threads can be used for education in a positive way.

.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 10:06:22 am by Fuzzy Muzzy »
Africa trip, Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, Malawi, Tanzania & Moz rr http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=61231.0
 
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Offline Just Blip It!

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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2019, 10:04:08 am »
This is my 2 cents based on what I experienced on this trip. ...................As I've said before, Specialised Adventures runs a very professional trip, Hardy De Kock's knowledge and love for Damarland and Kaokoland drives him to want to share these places with like minded adventure riders. We were instructed to stick strictly to the GPS routes that he supplied. I know of one case where 2 individuals on the trip cut corners and Hardy immediately reeled them in and reprimanded them. Hardy normally rides with the group on these trips, but due to the breakdown of a bike he gave his personal bike to White Rhino to ride and he had to drive the back up vehicle. I believe that he controlled the group as best he could under the circumstances. I can not say that I recognize all the spots where the footage was filmed, but I would not support this behavior had I seen it or believed it to be destructive. It is all about education, and I believe Hardy did all that he could to educate the riders as to where the sensitive areas were. I don't believe that Hardy or Specialised Adventures deserves this public reprimand as they are a professional and environmentally responsible outfit, in my opinion they deserve recognition for sharing and facilitating this awesome trip. We all love riding, exploring and seeing new places which is why we are on this group, Specialised Adventures does that for us. I believe that anyone who has an issue with them should first make sure of their facts and secondly take it up with them directly out of the public eye. There are many egos out there that need boosting and many keyboard warrior "environmentalists" that love to boost those egos, don't be one of them, go do this trip yourself then you can judge the man and his operation!
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Re: Debate from Ride Report about Eco impact
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2019, 10:12:22 am »
I know Hardy personally, and I cannot think that a man like him, and especially from a long-term business point of view, would allow his touring area to be damaged.

In a group like this, it is sometimes difficult, no impossible, to actually ensure that there is not going to be one or two that slips up a dune, or across a plain where they shouldn't.

WildWood and Specialised adventures are two companies that I know well, and both are nature loving people who will never do anything to harm the environment.

But.....the concern for the environment by the guys "complaining" is noted and appreciated.
 
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