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Author Topic: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.  (Read 492 times)

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Offline alphadog

hi, any south Africans living in the uk who have recently applied for south African passport renewal ? hoping to get some help with the process if you live far from London. is it possible to get a renewal by mail ?. obviously i have been on the website but have a few issues that are out of the contained info on the forms. i have both British and south African passports, apparently new rules suggest that i have to give proof how i got to become a south african at the age of 11 ! when i turned 16 i got a south African id and a sa passport. i just applied . i only got my brit passport many years later. parents no longer with us ,so cant ask them.how do i prove that i got the docs apart from the fact i have them in my hand ?

was recently informed that i cannot visit south africa with just my brit passport, if i have both i have to enter with the south african one.this has really bummed me out, does it mean i have to give up my sa passport ? i have dreams of returning to sa, not something i would like to give up on.
 

Offline RobbieH

Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2019, 09:18:10 am »
The regulation is correct you need to enter SA with your SA passport if you ar a citizen. But if the passport is not valid any more and you use your British Passport to enter SA they can and will let you in with a warning.
Basically saying they will let you enter but they put a small Stam saying you must do it again.

It happened to me twice in fact.

I entered SA applied for new SA passport and happy days.

About getting the passport renewed in UK got no idea. I've always had to go to the embassy directly as I was told you can do things via the post any more. New rules. You have to be present. But this was Switzerland 3 month ago..

Hope that helps a bit..
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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2019, 09:51:07 am »
My sister was in the same predicament last April, her SA passport expired - she lives in Scotland, so nipping to London was a problem, anyway she was going to renew it in SA, but when she arrived at ORT on her UK passport, she was advised that it was illegal as a SA citizen to have Dual Nationality without authorization (she got UK citizenship in 1995, before the Authorization letter was in place) and promptly revoked her SA citizenship and confiscated her passport - which pissed her off no end as she owns property in CT - but that is the rules....
She is currently negotiating with Foreign Affairs to re-instate her SA citizenship....

My advice would be to travel to London BEFORE your passport expires and get it renewed at the embassy...
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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2019, 09:57:46 am »
hi, any south Africans living in the uk who have recently applied for south African passport renewal ? hoping to get some help with the process if you live far from London. is it possible to get a renewal by mail ?. obviously i have been on the website but have a few issues that are out of the contained info on the forms. i have both British and south African passports, apparently new rules suggest that i have to give proof how i got to become a south african at the age of 11 ! when i turned 16 i got a south African id and a sa passport. i just applied . i only got my brit passport many years later. parents no longer with us ,so cant ask them.how do i prove that i got the docs apart from the fact i have them in my hand ?

was recently informed that i cannot visit south africa with just my brit passport, if i have both i have to enter with the south african one.this has really bummed me out, does it mean i have to give up my sa passport ? i have dreams of returning to sa, not something i would like to give up on.

My family and I have entered ZA on our foreign passports , no questions asked , no eyebrows raised and no worries.

But some have heard of their brothers best friends aunt who has been apprehended.

There is no way of knowing who is who. No link between non ZA passport and ZA passport.

Disclaimer: My wife an I were born outside of ZA and this is reflected in our passports (non ZA) so possibly why we get away with it.

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Offline Ian in Great Brak River

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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2019, 09:55:15 pm »
My sister was in the same predicament last April, her SA passport expired - she lives in Scotland, so nipping to London was a problem, anyway she was going to renew it in SA, but when she arrived at ORT on her UK passport, she was advised that it was illegal as a SA citizen to have Dual Nationality without authorization (she got UK citizenship in 1995, before the Authorization letter was in place) and promptly revoked her SA citizenship and confiscated her passport - which pissed her off no end as she owns property in CT - but that is the rules....
She is currently negotiating with Foreign Affairs to re-instate her SA citizenship....

My advice would be to travel to London BEFORE your passport expires and get it renewed at the embassy...

She should apply for a 23a classification, that means born in SA (if she was of course) and thus with the right to permanent residence. Then you use SA Passport Holders queue with your SA ID book/card on arrival and departure.
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Offline alphadog

Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2019, 11:39:47 pm »
quite ironic that i get a post from a guy from great brak river, the very place where i am trying to get back too, fraaiuitsig to be exact . anyway, thanks for the insights, couple of things, i was born in the uk, went to SA when i was 11. got my sa id and passport when i was sixteen, never been asked to prove that i have residence, i thought i was south african ?. reason for the panic is that recently my niece had to go to the London embassy from the midlands, she had an appointment but didn't get the issue sorted, had to stay over in London. one night almost the cost of a ticket to joburg, she like me cannot cope with the weather and has left the uk, was lucky enough to get into the usa. this past Monday my brother in law , now living in scotland went over to pretoria  and one of the party had there south african passport taken away as he didnt have permission to have dual nationality, this is the first time that group or myself have heard about it. it hasnt been in the press here, so obviously i am now in a fluster as i dont want to organise stuff back in sa and find out i cant get in.  ice cream man: in my south african passport it says nationality; south african and then where it states place of birth it says ;GBR.
so still my problem is this, if i arrive at the south african embassy in london, i still need to have in my possession some sort of proof of residence, this it states on the passport form i have to take, i dont have proof. speaking to my brother today who lives in joburg, he tells me that you can get the passport renewed from a bank ?? anyone done this?
maybe its easier to get it resolved in SA, i have 8 months left on passport, need six months to buy ticket. does that mean i have to stock up on tour x helmets etc to sell in SA to get ticket money back?
 

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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 11:56:35 pm »
I would just go on British passport.

Thatís what we do and never had a problem. They cannot strip you of citizenship.

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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2019, 01:29:02 pm »
This whole process would be a lot easier if we could just apply for a passport online. Iv heard the wait times here in the UK are up to 6 months! How is this even possible when it takes a week in sa?


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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2019, 01:30:54 pm »
My sister was in the same predicament last April, her SA passport expired - she lives in Scotland, so nipping to London was a problem, anyway she was going to renew it in SA, but when she arrived at ORT on her UK passport, she was advised that it was illegal as a SA citizen to have Dual Nationality without authorization (she got UK citizenship in 1995, before the Authorization letter was in place) and promptly revoked her SA citizenship and confiscated her passport - which pissed her off no end as she owns property in CT - but that is the rules....
She is currently negotiating with Foreign Affairs to re-instate her SA citizenship....

My advice would be to travel to London BEFORE your passport expires and get it renewed at the embassy...
Iím sure she will get the decision reversed,  I donít see how itís is constitutionally correct to revoke someoneís citizenship when she is a natural born citizen of SA.


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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2019, 02:57:52 pm »
To answer the original question, I think it must be fine in person. I think they need to take finger prints for all renewals. Something about confirming identity etc. That is the case in Netherlands, pretty sure it is the same in London. I also had to do this when I lived in Sydney.....

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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2019, 08:29:35 am »
I would just go on British passport.

Thatís what we do and never had a problem. They cannot strip you of citizenship.

They can and do.....
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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2019, 08:33:12 am »
My sister was in the same predicament last April, her SA passport expired - she lives in Scotland, so nipping to London was a problem, anyway she was going to renew it in SA, but when she arrived at ORT on her UK passport, she was advised that it was illegal as a SA citizen to have Dual Nationality without authorization (she got UK citizenship in 1995, before the Authorization letter was in place) and promptly revoked her SA citizenship and confiscated her passport - which pissed her off no end as she owns property in CT - but that is the rules....
She is currently negotiating with Foreign Affairs to re-instate her SA citizenship....

My advice would be to travel to London BEFORE your passport expires and get it renewed at the embassy...
Iím sure she will get the decision reversed,  I donít see how itís is constitutionally correct to revoke someoneís citizenship when she is a natural born citizen of SA.


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Because she has dual citzenship without authorization - bearing in mind that we were at the beginning of our current constitution, and the dual citizenship issue had not yet been addressed by Foreign Affairs, so my sister suffers due to the governments inability to admit their shortcomings.....
My sister was in the same predicament last April, her SA passport expired - she lives in Scotland, so nipping to London was a problem, anyway she was going to renew it in SA, but when she arrived at ORT on her UK passport, she was advised that it was illegal as a SA citizen to have Dual Nationality without authorization (she got UK citizenship in 1995, before the Authorization letter was in place) and promptly revoked her SA citizenship and confiscated her passport - which pissed her off no end as she owns property in CT - but that is the rules....
She is currently negotiating with Foreign Affairs to re-instate her SA citizenship....

My advice would be to travel to London BEFORE your passport expires and get it renewed at the embassy...

She should apply for a 23a classification, that means born in SA (if she was of course) and thus with the right to permanent residence. Then you use SA Passport Holders queue with your SA ID book/card on arrival and departure.

I believe she is busy with this....  :thumleft:
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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2019, 08:37:27 am »
I would just go on British passport.

Thatís what we do and never had a problem. They cannot strip you of citizenship.

They can and do.....

They can take yr za passport. Canít take yr citizenship.
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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 09:55:38 am »
I would just go on British passport.

Thatís what we do and never had a problem. They cannot strip you of citizenship.

They can and do.....

They can take yr za passport. Canít take yr citizenship.

My sister would disagree with you - she arrived in SA on her UK passport, was asked for her authorization letter confirming her dual citizenship, was unable to produce it (the letters were not in existence in 1995) and promptly had her citizenship revoked there and then at passport control, printed her a letter to confirm it....
We have employed a lawyer to tackle the issue and get this reversed, based on the timing issue, but I can guarantee she is no longer a SA citizen.....
In reallity, we do expect it to be resolved as there is a case ito the timing of her UK citizenship (she was working in the USA at the time on a BVI registered boat, but had work visa issues on a SA passport) and the post-1994 government..... But at the end of the day, she should not have let her SA passport lapse whilst in yje UK - so her fault....!
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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 10:05:31 am »
I would just go on British passport.

Thatís what we do and never had a problem. They cannot strip you of citizenship.

They can and do.....

They can take yr za passport. Canít take yr citizenship.

My sister would disagree with you - she arrived in SA on her UK passport, was asked for her authorization letter confirming her dual citizenship, was unable to produce it (the letters were not in existence in 1995) and promptly had her citizenship revoked there and then at passport control, printed her a letter to confirm it....
We have employed a lawyer to tackle the issue and get this reversed, based on the timing issue, but I can guarantee she is no longer a SA citizen.....
In reallity, we do expect it to be resolved as there is a case ito the timing of her UK citizenship (she was working in the USA at the time on a BVI registered boat, but had work visa issues on a SA passport) and the post-1994 government..... But at the end of the day, she should not have let her SA passport lapse whilst in yje UK - so her fault....!

Interesting case that and yes it should be overturned. Update this thread when finalised either way.

Even while living in ZA I was using non ZA passport back in the day.

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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2019, 10:08:19 am »
I would just go on British passport.

Thatís what we do and never had a problem. They cannot strip you of citizenship.

They can and do.....

They can take yr za passport. Canít take yr citizenship.

My sister would disagree with you - she arrived in SA on her UK passport, was asked for her authorization letter confirming her dual citizenship, was unable to produce it (the letters were not in existence in 1995) and promptly had her citizenship revoked there and then at passport control, printed her a letter to confirm it....
We have employed a lawyer to tackle the issue and get this reversed, based on the timing issue, but I can guarantee she is no longer a SA citizen.....
In reallity, we do expect it to be resolved as there is a case ito the timing of her UK citizenship (she was working in the USA at the time on a BVI registered boat, but had work visa issues on a SA passport) and the post-1994 government..... But at the end of the day, she should not have let her SA passport lapse whilst in yje UK - so her fault....!

Interesting case that and yes it should be overturned. Update this thread when finalised either way.

Even while living in ZA I was using non ZA passport back in the day.

We also suspect that the passport orrificer didn't get it all that morning......   :o
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Offline alphadog

Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2019, 12:26:08 pm »
so in the meantime i have sent away for paperwork via the SA in london, but appears it would actually be easier to get sorted from within south africa, its the letter of permission to have dual citizenship that is the biggest hurdle.but will update if and when i recieve docs from london.
 
 

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Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2019, 05:09:17 pm »
Does this only apply if you're trying to renew from overseas?

Like you, I'm UK born and arrived here as a kid. Got naturalised SA citizen and use both passports currently. I don't have the dual national letter. Will I need one if I apply for new SA passport while still here in SA?
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Offline alphadog

Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2019, 06:41:48 pm »
apparently it applies to everyone who has dual citizenship, whether in sa or not, but i cannot find any info about what date this came into being or who you send to ,to ask for the letter. i am trying to get hold of someone with the letter , apparently anyone who is considering immigrating from SA has to have it as-well.
 

Offline alphadog

Re: South africans in UK who have renewed a SA passport.....needing help.
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2019, 06:57:57 pm »
 
 THIS is from the south african home office in Australia ........................................

Home | About us | Consular | Trade | Contact us | Vacancies 
 
 
Dual South African Citizenship
 
The South African Citizenship Act provides for retention of South African citizenship PRIOR to the acquisition of a foreign citizenship. A condition of attaining dual citizenship for all South African citizens aged 18 years or older is that they must apply and be granted permission to retain their South African citizenship prior to the acquisition of a foreign citizenship.

If a South African citizen does not obtain this prior permission they will automatically lose their South African citizenship on voluntary acquisition of a foreign citizenship.

South African citizens under the age of 18 years are exempt and do not require to apply for dual citizenship, as long as they acquire the foreign citizenship before their 18th birthday. They automatically retain their South African citizenship for life unless, once they have reached the age of 18 years and they then wish to acquire a further foreign citizenship, they will then have to apply for prior permission to retain their South African citizenship. Failing to do so, they will automatically lose their South African citizenship.

Please note that in terms of the South African Citizenship Act it is an offence for a South African citizen with dual citizenship to enter or depart the Republic of South Africa making use of the passport of another country. Once a person has been granted dual citizenship, the holder must always enter and depart South Africa on their valid South African passport.

In essence legislation provides that a South African dual citizen can use his or her foreign passport/citizenship/nationality freely outside South Africa. However, in South Africa, he/she may not use his or her foreign citizenship to gain an advantage or to avoid a responsibility or duty, which he or she as a South African citizen would otherwise have or have not been entitled or subjected to.

NB. It should be mentioned that South African citizens by birth, who automatically lost their South African citizenship, never lose their right to Permanent Residence in South Africa. Should they permanently return to South Africa, they will be able to apply for the resumption of their South African citizenship from within the Country.

Requirements for your application
1.Application for Retention of South African Citizenship (form BI-1664): requires details of your future citizenship for which you are planning to acquire. NB: Questions 9 and 10 MUST be answered.
2.Determination of your Current Status (form BI-529): requires details of your present status in order that we may ascertain your claim for South African citizenship. Please mark N/A to questions that are not applicable, questions 9 & 10 MUST be answered and section must be signed by the applicant or the form will be returned. Information pertaining to parent's details; a minimum of their full date and place of birth is required.
3.A copy of the photo page of your current South African passport showing the passport number and dates of issue and expiry. If your passport has expired, it is advisable to apply for a new passport as soon as possible should you need to travel to South Africa. Non-refundable fee of AUD 33.00 per application.
4.A fee of 33.00 AUD  per application. One Postal Money Order or Bank cheque for the total amount (if more than one application) is preferred.
5.If you are a naturalized South African, a copy of your Naturalization Certificate. In cases of those applicants who acquired foreign citizenship through any of their parents, a certified copy of your own full birth certificate showing the birth places of your parent(s). Under circumstances where even the parents acquired such citizenship through descent, a letter from the relevant authorities of the country concerned will suffice. Parents born out of SA proof of their naturalization or proof of their residency status at the time of the child’s birth. Documents issued in a foreign language must be officially translated to English by a sworn translator.

Payment must be in Australian Dollars (AUD) made out to the South African High Commission by way of Postal Money Order or Bank Cheque.

Personal cheques or credit cards are NOT accepted. Incorrect payment will not be accepted; in case of incorrect payment the cheque or postal money order will be returned to applicant.

Processing time is approximately 6 to 12 months.

Return Postage: Only Australian applications
ēFor applications originating from within Australia - a self-addressed Express or Registered Post Envelope (only one envelope per family).
 
Postal address: Only Australian applications

South African High Commission
 State Circle
 Yarralumla
 ACT
 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 07:01:14 pm by alphadog »
 
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