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Offline DavidMorrisXp

CRF450L ECU upgrade
« on: January 07, 2020, 08:40:00 am »
On a recent visit to Honda I chatted about the Bikeshow less than complimentary review of the bike and how South Africa gets the under powered European version.

The rep told me that many bikes have been sold and most customers are happy with their bikes but there is an ECU available from Honda that can up the power output

I think he said R16k or R18k for the ECU.

Has anybody done this out of curiosity?
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2020, 01:56:13 pm »
I havent done it but I've seen it being done, it takes it to 55kw apparently,

There is one for sale with the conversion in Pinetown .

I'm not sure i'm sold on it though, the bike is designed to be detuned IMO, if you go from say 24kw to 55kw what will that do to the motor long term? how does it change the maintenance?

Personally I feel that if you want a monster then buy a 450RX, high performance, high cost to maintain as well.. the point of the 450L IMO is to tour, explore etc.. if you look at what the Honda rally team did at the Tankwa with standard bikes, it shows that the bike doesnt need any upgrading.

Its a conflict for sure, I am seriously looking at a 450L to train with and then just use my 450X for events .. still undecided.
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Offline DavidMorrisXp

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2020, 02:33:23 pm »
I saw some reviews on YouTube

This one seems to be the preferred option

https://www.vortexcdi.com/model_product.php?product=56&model=271&mp_id=4273&flag=1

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Offline DavidMorrisXp

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2020, 02:35:12 pm »
I havent done it but I've seen it being done, it takes it to 55kw apparently,

There is one for sale with the conversion in Pinetown .

I'm not sure i'm sold on it though, the bike is designed to be detuned IMO, if you go from say 24kw to 55kw what will that do to the motor long term? how does it change the maintenance?

Personally I feel that if you want a monster then buy a 450RX, high performance, high cost to maintain as well.. the point of the 450L IMO is to tour, explore etc.. if you look at what the Honda rally team did at the Tankwa with standard bikes, it shows that the bike doesnt need any upgrading.

Its a conflict for sure, I am seriously looking at a 450L to train with and then just use my 450X for events .. still undecided.

I agree but a 450RX won't go on the road and sometimes you want power
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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2020, 02:43:18 pm »
I havent done it but I've seen it being done, it takes it to 55kw apparently,

There is one for sale with the conversion in Pinetown .

I'm not sure i'm sold on it though, the bike is designed to be detuned IMO, if you go from say 24kw to 55kw what will that do to the motor long term? how does it change the maintenance?

Personally I feel that if you want a monster then buy a 450RX, high performance, high cost to maintain as well.. the point of the 450L IMO is to tour, explore etc.. if you look at what the Honda rally team did at the Tankwa with standard bikes, it shows that the bike doesnt need any upgrading.

Its a conflict for sure, I am seriously looking at a 450L to train with and then just use my 450X for events .. still undecided.

I don't really understand what the Honda rally team did to proof that 55kw is unwanted?
they finished and they had fun, less power is not a prerequisite for that.

Is the engine internals different?
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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2020, 04:07:01 pm »
I havent done it but I've seen it being done, it takes it to 55kw apparently,

There is one for sale with the conversion in Pinetown .

I'm not sure i'm sold on it though, the bike is designed to be detuned IMO, if you go from say 24kw to 55kw what will that do to the motor long term? how does it change the maintenance?

Personally I feel that if you want a monster then buy a 450RX, high performance, high cost to maintain as well.. the point of the 450L IMO is to tour, explore etc.. if you look at what the Honda rally team did at the Tankwa with standard bikes, it shows that the bike doesnt need any upgrading.

Its a conflict for sure, I am seriously looking at a 450L to train with and then just use my 450X for events .. still undecided.

It's Hp not Kw
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Offline Xpat

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2020, 04:09:02 pm »
I will try one more time, since the level of ignorance about CRF bikes here is mindboggling - especially by Honda fans. This is the bike Honda should have imported and made road legal (it is 50 states legal in US so why not in RSA +KTM SA manages to get all their full power uncorked EXC bikes plateable in RSA, so why not Honda?)

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2018/10/29/2019-honda-crf450x-review-19-fast-facts/


And no, Honda didn't build L as some kind of special version - it is the other way around. They build the X engine (internally exactly the same) and then dumbed it down into L (much less so in US where it is within 2 - 3 hp from each other (X is about 45 - 48 hp (not kW through  ::) ), much more so for Euro / RSA (almost halved the power). And if you believe that leaning out the fuel mix in L in effect making it run much hotter will make it last longer, then I want what you are smoking. So they basically build pure bred horse in X (for hobby enduro/dual sport, not competition like R/RX) and then they tied up its front legs arguing that it will last longer as it will not run around too much. And told customers that it is actually better. If you buy that argument, well.....

Internals are exactly the same on X and L (6 speed gearbox compared to 5 speed on R/RX, lower compression, 3 piston rings compared to 2 on R/RX). And the service intervals as well.

So the right thing for Honda SA  to do is to dump the Ls into sea (or sell them with deep discount - really deep) and then import Xes and make sure they are plateable (again if KTM can do it, I'm sure Honda can - if they care), price them 10 - 15k below 500 and they are sorted. The bike has ample power, is much lighter than L and cheaper to manufacture as they don't put crap on that people rip off first thing after purchase (like those Tankwa guys did with the 'reinforced plate holder' Honda boasted so much in the launch PR).

But wait - they don't have to do that, since they are selling tons of L's according the the salesman ...  ::)

Offline Dux

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2020, 05:28:54 pm »
I will try one more time, since the level of ignorance about CRF bikes here is mindboggling - especially by Honda fans. This is the bike Honda should have imported and made road legal (it is 50 states legal in US so why not in RSA +KTM SA manages to get all their full power uncorked EXC bikes plateable in RSA, so why not Honda?)

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2018/10/29/2019-honda-crf450x-review-19-fast-facts/


And no, Honda didn't build L as some kind of special version - it is the other way around. They build the X engine (internally exactly the same) and then dumbed it down into L (much less so in US where it is within 2 - 3 hp from each other (X is about 45 - 48 hp (not kW through  ::) ), much more so for Euro / RSA (almost halved the power). And if you believe that leaning out the fuel mix in L in effect making it run much hotter will make it last longer, then I want what you are smoking. So they basically build pure bred horse in X (for hobby enduro/dual sport, not competition like R/RX) and then they tied up its front legs arguing that it will last longer as it will not run around too much. And told customers that it is actually better. If you buy that argument, well.....

Internals are exactly the same on X and L (6 speed gearbox compared to 5 speed on R/RX, lower compression, 3 piston rings compared to 2 on R/RX). And the service intervals as well.

So the right thing for Honda SA  to do is to dump the Ls into sea (or sell them with deep discount - really deep) and then import Xes and make sure they are plateable (again if KTM can do it, I'm sure Honda can - if they care), price them 10 - 15k below 500 and they are sorted. The bike has ample power, is much lighter than L and cheaper to manufacture as they don't put crap on that people rip off first thing after purchase (like those Tankwa guys did with the 'reinforced plate holder' Honda boasted so much in the launch PR).

But wait - they don't have to do that, since they are selling tons of L's according the the salesman ...  ::)
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2020, 11:29:14 am »
I will try one more time, since the level of ignorance about CRF bikes here is mindboggling - especially by Honda fans. This is the bike Honda should have imported and made road legal (it is 50 states legal in US so why not in RSA +KTM SA manages to get all their full power uncorked EXC bikes plateable in RSA, so why not Honda?)

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2018/10/29/2019-honda-crf450x-review-19-fast-facts/


And no, Honda didn't build L as some kind of special version - it is the other way around. They build the X engine (internally exactly the same) and then dumbed it down into L (much less so in US where it is within 2 - 3 hp from each other (X is about 45 - 48 hp (not kW through  ::) ), much more so for Euro / RSA (almost halved the power). And if you believe that leaning out the fuel mix in L in effect making it run much hotter will make it last longer, then I want what you are smoking. So they basically build pure bred horse in X (for hobby enduro/dual sport, not competition like R/RX) and then they tied up its front legs arguing that it will last longer as it will not run around too much. And told customers that it is actually better. If you buy that argument, well.....

Internals are exactly the same on X and L (6 speed gearbox compared to 5 speed on R/RX, lower compression, 3 piston rings compared to 2 on R/RX). And the service intervals as well.

So the right thing for Honda SA  to do is to dump the Ls into sea (or sell them with deep discount - really deep) and then import Xes and make sure they are plateable (again if KTM can do it, I'm sure Honda can - if they care), price them 10 - 15k below 500 and they are sorted. The bike has ample power, is much lighter than L and cheaper to manufacture as they don't put crap on that people rip off first thing after purchase (like those Tankwa guys did with the 'reinforced plate holder' Honda boasted so much in the launch PR).

But wait - they don't have to do that, since they are selling tons of L's according the the salesman ...  ::)

Listen, this is not the R&P thread, seriously no need to bring attitude into these discussions  :thumleft: most are here to learn.

I have an X, all be it a very old one, it must be about an 07' or 09' so comparing it to a 2019 didnt really cross my mind, I have very limited intentions of ever making  my X  road legal, the service intervals on the X prevent it from being a bike that you can pull out the garage and go touring offroad with. Its easy enough to throw an offroad kit onto those bikes but would you really do that?  I'm just finishing up my 450X rally bike build, when its done Ill start playing around with the gearing to see how it can be a bike for serious offroad and still be able to do a tar stretch then ill give some feedback if need be but ive been on my450X on the road a few times and its like a fish out of water.

I know at least one guy who has a 450X who has bought the 450L and is very happy with his purchase.

Its all just a matter of opinion, personally I'm impressed with the 450L, considering that you can buy one pretty much new with a ton of extras and an ECU upgrade to 55hp if you want for around R89k its starting to look like a deal that is hard to beat,

I mean a KTM 250 Freeride is about 20k more than that
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2020, 11:30:09 am »
I havent done it but I've seen it being done, it takes it to 55kw apparently,

There is one for sale with the conversion in Pinetown .

I'm not sure i'm sold on it though, the bike is designed to be detuned IMO, if you go from say 24kw to 55kw what will that do to the motor long term? how does it change the maintenance?

Personally I feel that if you want a monster then buy a 450RX, high performance, high cost to maintain as well.. the point of the 450L IMO is to tour, explore etc.. if you look at what the Honda rally team did at the Tankwa with standard bikes, it shows that the bike doesnt need any upgrading.

Its a conflict for sure, I am seriously looking at a 450L to train with and then just use my 450X for events .. still undecided.

It's Hp not Kw

Yes correct , my finger error  :thumleft:
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2020, 11:37:19 am »
I havent done it but I've seen it being done, it takes it to 55kw apparently,

There is one for sale with the conversion in Pinetown .

I'm not sure i'm sold on it though, the bike is designed to be detuned IMO, if you go from say 24kw to 55kw what will that do to the motor long term? how does it change the maintenance?

Personally I feel that if you want a monster then buy a 450RX, high performance, high cost to maintain as well.. the point of the 450L IMO is to tour, explore etc.. if you look at what the Honda rally team did at the Tankwa with standard bikes, it shows that the bike doesnt need any upgrading.

Its a conflict for sure, I am seriously looking at a 450L to train with and then just use my 450X for events .. still undecided.

I don't really understand what the Honda rally team did to proof that 55kw is unwanted?
they finished and they had fun, less power is not a prerequisite for that.

Is the engine internals different?

I don't think their intention was to prove anything beyond the fact that you can buy a 450L out the box and go and do a multi stage rally with minimal fuss and upgrades.

Leading up to the launch of the bike there were a lot of people looking at the stats on paper and immediately deciding that the bike couldn't do anything because of the 24HP output.. as we saw from the event, the bikes will outlast the riders. Ive been into Atlantis dunes following a 450L and I couldn't  keep up on my 250X, so its power delivery is fine for the weekend warrior, I think that was their strategy to boost sales..

Angus bought one of those rally bikes that used at Tankwa, I must jump on it and give it a spin, I never got a chance in the Tankwa
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Offline Dux

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2020, 12:13:43 pm »
Murray , the way I understand it our markets 450L was detuned from the full power American model , so I really wouldnít expect any reliability issues  :thumleft:
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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2020, 12:14:44 pm »
Umhlanga Honda did the ECU swap and got 58HP.  :thumleft:

Read qoute above  :biggrin:
 

Offline DavidMorrisXp

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2020, 12:35:55 pm »
Umhlanga Honda did the ECU swap and got 58HP.  :thumleft:

Read qoute above  :biggrin:

Ah so it is being done and with the Vortex I guess
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Offline Xpat

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2020, 01:00:16 pm »
I will try one more time, since the level of ignorance about CRF bikes here is mindboggling - especially by Honda fans. This is the bike Honda should have imported and made road legal (it is 50 states legal in US so why not in RSA +KTM SA manages to get all their full power uncorked EXC bikes plateable in RSA, so why not Honda?)

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2018/10/29/2019-honda-crf450x-review-19-fast-facts/


And no, Honda didn't build L as some kind of special version - it is the other way around. They build the X engine (internally exactly the same) and then dumbed it down into L (much less so in US where it is within 2 - 3 hp from each other (X is about 45 - 48 hp (not kW through  ::) ), much more so for Euro / RSA (almost halved the power). And if you believe that leaning out the fuel mix in L in effect making it run much hotter will make it last longer, then I want what you are smoking. So they basically build pure bred horse in X (for hobby enduro/dual sport, not competition like R/RX) and then they tied up its front legs arguing that it will last longer as it will not run around too much. And told customers that it is actually better. If you buy that argument, well.....

Internals are exactly the same on X and L (6 speed gearbox compared to 5 speed on R/RX, lower compression, 3 piston rings compared to 2 on R/RX). And the service intervals as well.

So the right thing for Honda SA  to do is to dump the Ls into sea (or sell them with deep discount - really deep) and then import Xes and make sure they are plateable (again if KTM can do it, I'm sure Honda can - if they care), price them 10 - 15k below 500 and they are sorted. The bike has ample power, is much lighter than L and cheaper to manufacture as they don't put crap on that people rip off first thing after purchase (like those Tankwa guys did with the 'reinforced plate holder' Honda boasted so much in the launch PR).

But wait - they don't have to do that, since they are selling tons of L's according the the salesman ...  ::)

Listen, this is not the R&P thread, seriously no need to bring attitude into these discussions  :thumleft: most are here to learn.

I have an X, all be it a very old one, it must be about an 07' or 09' so comparing it to a 2019 didnt really cross my mind, I have very limited intentions of ever making  my X  road legal, the service intervals on the X prevent it from being a bike that you can pull out the garage and go touring offroad with. Its easy enough to throw an offroad kit onto those bikes but would you really do that?  I'm just finishing up my 450X rally bike build, when its done Ill start playing around with the gearing to see how it can be a bike for serious offroad and still be able to do a tar stretch then ill give some feedback if need be but ive been on my450X on the road a few times and its like a fish out of water.

I know at least one guy who has a 450X who has bought the 450L and is very happy with his purchase.

Its all just a matter of opinion, personally I'm impressed with the 450L, considering that you can buy one pretty much new with a ton of extras and an ECU upgrade to 55hp if you want for around R89k its starting to look like a deal that is hard to beat,

I mean a KTM 250 Freeride is about 20k more than that

If you can get one with ECU upgrade (to 45 - 48 hp, not 55 - even uncorked X with the same engine doesn't have that, that HP is for R/RX) for R89k new or almost new, then indeed it is a good deal and makes sense. For R125k as advertised new plus whatever you have to pay to get it run as it was originally designed, it doesn't.

And your X and new X are different bikes - just 5 speed vs 6 speed gearbox will make big difference, and the service interval is exactly the same as on L - because the internals are exactly the same, L is just detuned.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 01:06:33 pm by Xpat »
 

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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2020, 11:00:35 pm »
I have seen no Lís on the road, Honda SA made a mistake selling the 24HP model no doubt. Can never compete against a KTM500 at that price with that power output
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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2020, 12:36:55 pm »
I have seen no Lís on the road, Honda SA made a mistake selling the 24HP model no doubt. Can never compete against a KTM500 at that price with that power output

um... you cant compare the bikes.

Ill get on a 450L and you bring a KTM500 and lets go ride through the Western Cape up into Malawi and back down to SA through Botswana and lets see how you with maintaining the bike compared to the 450L, that is an extreme example but you get the point. the whole point of the 450L is the service intervals, I think you should rather be comparing the 450X with the KTM500 not so?

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_crf450L_18.htm
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Offline Dux

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2020, 05:30:29 pm »
There are those that will go for the KTM and those that will go for the Honda , each to their own
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Offline Xpat

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2020, 03:05:08 pm »
I have seen no Lís on the road, Honda SA made a mistake selling the 24HP model no doubt. Can never compete against a KTM500 at that price with that power output

um... you cant compare the bikes.

Ill get on a 450L and you bring a KTM500 and lets go ride through the Western Cape up into Malawi and back down to SA through Botswana and lets see how you with maintaining the bike compared to the 450L, that is an extreme example but you get the point. the whole point of the 450L is the service intervals, I think you should rather be comparing the 450X with the KTM500 not so?

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_crf450L_18.htm

They are exactly the direct competition, with KTM 500 being long term king of this DS category and despite Honda's pretenses the reason why they build this bike because they wanted to get share of the DS market currently owned by KTM - as all of their EXC bikes are 50 states street legal in US, the biggest market for this segment. And in US Honda at least kept the HP at respectable level, unlike the extremely neutered Euro/SA version.

KTM 500 will do that trip exactly the same way as 450L (except with much more enjoyment), they have exactly the same service intervals (and so does 450X). I know, because I have done many of those kind of trips on 500 over the past 3 years (currently on 17k km, all proper DS trips). Stop believing Honda hype - they are trying to sell you extremely neutered and overpriced lemon. It will make market sense here only if the lower the price significantly, as people then increase its power to where it was designed to be - and keep the service intervals exactly the same.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 04:27:42 pm by Xpat »
 

Offline Garthpunk

Re: CRF450L ECU upgrade
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2020, 05:20:28 pm »
On a recent visit to Honda I chatted about the Bikeshow less than complimentary review of the bike and how South Africa gets the under powered European version.

The rep told me that many bikes have been sold and most customers are happy with their bikes but there is an ECU available from Honda that can up the power output

I think he said R16k or R18k for the ECU.

Has anybody done this out of curiosity?

I have the Aussie/US spec ECU which I can let you have for far less. Original Honda parts and still in packaging. Let me know if you're interested.
 
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