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Offline Dwerg

Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #680 on: August 11, 2020, 07:24:09 am »
And they’ll be teammates again next year.
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Offline OomD

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #681 on: August 11, 2020, 07:35:09 am »
Oli is also turning out to be a bit of a twatwaffle after BBs promotion from moto2?
And all three races so far, but especially yesterdays's prove that his promotion to premier class was absolutely the right thing to do.
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #682 on: August 11, 2020, 10:24:07 am »
Cal Crutchlow is well know for his direct way of saying things.  He said that they all knew KTN had a bike capable of wining every week.  They lacked a rider of Brad's talent to do so.  I wonder if Pol is going to moer him anyday soon?  :lol8:

And they’ll be teammates again next year.

BB33 and MO88 are good friends.  I am sure they could have exchange some hot words after their incident, but MO's response to BB's apology on Tistter said it all because MO responded something like: "All good, I will get you under the brakes at Brno".

   
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 10:26:39 am by TheBear »
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline BiG DoM

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #683 on: August 11, 2020, 11:26:34 am »
Cal Crutchlow is well know for his direct way of saying things.  He said that they all knew KTN had a bike capable of wining every week.  They lacked a rider of Brad's talent to do so.  I wonder if Pol is going to moer him anyday soon?  :lol8:

And they’ll be teammates again next year.

BB33 and MO88 are good friends.  I am sure they could have exchange some hot words after their incident, but MO's response to BB's apology on Tistter said it all because MO responded something like: "All good, I will get you under the brakes at Brno".



Well at least Oli has a sense of humour then  :imaposer:
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Offline DouglasN

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #684 on: August 11, 2020, 11:50:20 am »


I haven't seen it mentioned much, but Brad also had the fastest lap of the race.


[Quote from: peteb on Today at 06:53:31]


>[Quote from: Kamanya on Today at 06:16:17]
If Pol had stayed on, he was looking strong. I wonder how that would have turned out?

Certainly a double podium for KTM, but there might have been a good battle too.


If Pol had got past Zarco and Morbidelli he would have had to ride out of his skin to catch Brad, who was turning fast lap times right until the end. I honestly don't think he would have had the tyres or the skill to do that. I think there's a bit of envy there, not least because Brad went round the outside to pass him in the beginning, which was quite a move.

[/Quote]


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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #685 on: August 11, 2020, 03:42:27 pm »
Oli is also turning out to be a bit of a twatwaffle after BBs promotion from moto2?

On this level, when threatened, all these guys are arseholes. It is in the competitive nature.
 

Offline Amsterdam

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #686 on: August 11, 2020, 06:37:47 pm »
If Pol had stayed on, he was looking strong. I wonder how that would have turned out?

Certainly a double podium for KTM, but there might have been a good battle too.
If Pol had got past Zarco and Morbidelli he would have had to ride out of his skin to catch Brad, who was turning fast lap times right until the end. I honestly don't think he would have had the tyres or the skill to do that. I think there's a bit of envy there, not least because Brad went round the outside to pass him in the beginning, which was quite a move.

I saw that yet no one has commented on that afterwards, least of all Pol Espargo.  I wonder if that pissed him off so much that he pushed it bit more than he should have at that stage.  He was fast all weekend and from my couch it looked like he made a few mistakes after that move.  Good thing is that we don't have to wait long for the next event.
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #687 on: August 11, 2020, 07:25:20 pm »


I saw that yet no one has commented on that afterwards, least of all Pol Espargo.  I wonder if that pissed him off so much that he pushed it bit more than he should have at that stage.  He was fast all weekend and from my couch it looked like he made a few mistakes after that move.  Good thing is that we don't have to wait long for the next event.

[/quote]

Definately - it played into the dynamic (there has been some comment on it) and why he was pushing and running wide. So the accident therefore actually started with Brad's overtake of Esparagus (Brads fault  :laughing4:). There are a couple of guys I think who will take strain now in the mental game - something Brad does not seem to suffer from.
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Offline Kamanya

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #688 on: August 11, 2020, 07:51:53 pm »
Listening to Leitner from KTM, they are giving a lot of praise to Pedrosa for his help in developing the bike to a point that it can win. He apparently was at the circuit testing earlier in the year.
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Online Dux

Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #689 on: August 11, 2020, 08:07:29 pm »
Listening to Leitner from KTM, they are giving a lot of praise to Pedrosa for his help in developing the bike to a point that it can win. He apparently was at the circuit testing earlier in the year.

Racing at this level is very much a team effort , so yes I can relate to that
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #690 on: August 11, 2020, 09:00:48 pm »
Brad does not even know exactly how many people are in his box - he reckons at least 60 on Sunday (this excludes the factory R&D guys etc). Ja, serious team effort.
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Online Dux

Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #691 on: August 11, 2020, 09:46:41 pm »
Brad does not even know exactly how many people are in his box - he reckons at least 60 on Sunday (this excludes the factory R&D guys etc). Ja, serious team effort.

It is like that with all the big teams , R & D is an ongoing business , KTM now know they have a competitive package , from now on it is just small refinements until they have a package that works at all circuits with minimal changes . It is however ongoing and never ends
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Offline billy-joe

Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #692 on: August 11, 2020, 10:32:19 pm »
as much as i am not a MM fan, this win would've meant a shitton more if he was in the race.  Knowing how BB doesn't back down to the challenge (he seems so nice when his helmet is off!) i can't wait to see them at it when both bikes are competitive.  Don't think MM hasn't noticed the new guy...
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #693 on: August 12, 2020, 09:07:35 am »
MM definately noticed BB last year as he fucked his brother up, and is on record of noting it.  :3some:  Obviously BB has not got his experience ... yet ... but I think he has other advantages - one being a correctly inflated ego, another being a generosity of spirit - this allows him to open windows of opportunity without breaking arms.  8)
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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #694 on: August 12, 2020, 10:09:39 am »
last year as he fucked his brother up,
Alex M is battling so far this year in the new class.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #695 on: August 12, 2020, 11:43:18 am »
Listening to Leitner from KTM, they are giving a lot of praise to Pedrosa for his help in developing the bike to a point that it can win. He apparently was at the circuit testing earlier in the year.

KTM is still on concessions and can therefore have private tests on GP circuits when the other manufacturers are not allowed to test.   KTM tested extensively at Brno a week before the GP and a day afterward.  I am not sure about the testing prior to the GP, but the testing the day after had Dani, Brad, Pol and Oli testing.

Dani does have a huge hand in the improvement of the bike, but I believe both Brad and Oli also brought some excellent advice to the party.  I think KTM is slowly but surely and perhaps a bit stealth like building the dream team.

When they appointed Dani as test rider, many loudly proclaimed what a crap idea that was.  He is too small.  He is an introvert.  He only knows Honda.  Even here, the idea was made out to be a crappy one.  Yet, here we are, singing his praises.  KTM management should also be praised.  The best test rider in the world, is useless if management is not hearing him.  KTM appointed him and took his inputs seriously.  Very seriously.

Then, there is Brad and Oli.  Both have now come from Red Bull Rookies Cup, via Moto3 and Moto2 as part of the KTM team and family.  When Zarco left, they could have signed anyone of a few riders.  They promoted Brad.  Now that Pol is leaving, they again could have signed anyone of a few riders.  They promoted Oliviera.  Clearly working with a plan.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 11:51:24 am by TheBear »
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline JonW

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #696 on: August 12, 2020, 01:11:09 pm »
last year as he fucked his brother up,
Alex M is battling so far this year in the new class.

Alex M's 8th place two weeks ago wasn't too shabby
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #697 on: August 12, 2020, 01:24:52 pm »
last year as he fucked his brother up,
Alex M is battling so far this year in the new class.

Alex M's 8th place two weeks ago wasn't too shabby

True that.  We are all pee'ing ourselves in excitement about Brad and rightly so, but Alex is not doing too bad for a rookie either.  He is on 13 points after three races.  Often, rookies will just hope to be in the points. 
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline Amsterdam

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #698 on: August 12, 2020, 01:59:35 pm »
A much more long winded take on the Pol / Zarco exchange than I would ever have written.  But interesting enough.  The old thing is where two fight, both have some blame.

https://www.racecenter.com.au/post/pol-or-zarco-who-s-to-blame?fbclid=IwAR08jMu7wotbFKMguSICHiPDfMHVD8n9aS-kss0mYK9lDQAVSBF2t32ssJ0

Pol or Zarco – Who’s to Blame?
Updated: 13 hours ago
A coming together like this always divides opinion. Viewpoints depend heavily on the perspective we look at them from i.e. a fan, competitor, team boss, race steward and of course riders themselves. So here is ours.

We’ll start off by saying yes these riders are supremely talented, we couldn’t ride as fast as them blah blah blah. Yes we know that.

However being extremely talented doesn’t excuse you from your brain. These are professional racers paid to deliver results and they are also extremely experienced by the time they reach the MotoGP class.


Image: Polarity Photo / KTM Factory Racing

Both played a Part

Anyone who follows MotoGP will have seen many similar incidents to this over the years, it’s a very common in double apex corners. The lead rider blows the first apex, runs wide, the following rider tries sneak up the inside and the 2 riders clash when they intersect the 2nd apex.

Turn 1 at Brno is similar in this way to turn 1 at Mugello and Dani Pedrossa Corner at Jerez (formerly Dry Sack). Even the last corner at Jerez.

These incidents happen all the time, especially in the junior classes.



So there is no doubt that once Pol had blown the first apex there was every chance the 2 were going to come together. With their years of experience both riders should have been very aware of that.

Technically speaking you can argue that Zarco was not quite far enough up the inside and had time to get out of the throttle before Pol came back in. Yet you could also argue Pol ran very wide in the first place and cut back to the race line quite aggressively, chopping across race lines is not cool any day of the week.

So ‘technically’ speaking we’d put the blame at 50/50 and if we were the stewards, we’d take that position. Both riders did nothing to avoid the potential accident and the potential for that accident was high and pretty obvious.

But this is MotoGP not lawn bowls (actually lawn bowls can get a bit feisty as well but you get the point). A bit of rubbing is racing and the riders would be criticised if they were too soft and just gave positions away. Us as fans actually encourage a bit of bar banging.

So let’s dig a bit deeper.


Who had more to Lose?

Now this is what really matters. Who had more to lose and who had the ‘stronger’ position. This is something every aspiring racer needs to understand and allow for.

Saying “he took me out” deliveries 0 points no matter how correct you are. While if we were stewards we’d go 50/50, from a team boss perspective it would be far from that.

Let’s start with Zarco, He was fighting for a podium but struggling to match the pace of the surprise packet KTM’s. He saw an opportunity, a gap opened up through no fault of his own so he went for it. It was probably a 60/40 chance but most importantly he was on the inside and far enough up the inside to have minimal risk of crashing himself if the 2 collided.

Sure it was a bit clumsy and aggressive but he had a stronger position than Pol. Furthermore, his performance through the long lap loop was mental and he finished on the podium. You might advise him to try get a little further up next time by opening the throttle a tiny bit more but you’d have to be ok with what he did if you were his team boss.
 
Pol on the other hand. Let’s first state we are massive fans of Pol, you just have to look to his sideways performance in qualifying at Valencia last year to appreciate this guy, he is a mega talent. However he also finds a way not deliver the results on race day too often.

Let's have a look at a few points:

· The KTM had race winning pace
· Pol was faster than Zarco
· Pol made the original mistake of running so wide. Not the first mistake he made in the lap leading up to the incident.
· Pol cut back to race line very aggressively
· Pol knew Zarco was right there, he had just passed him
· Pol should know that Zarco is a hard nut who never gives an inch.
· Here is the kicker, Pol was on the outside and as such had a much higher risk of crashing should they collide. This means he was in the much weaker position. A position he put himself in through his own mistake.

Unless Pol was 100% sure he was well enough in front of Zarco or anyone else on the inside he should not have cut back so aggressively, that was just dangerous. He was too wide mid turn just to come straight back to race line with no regard for the bikes around him.

KTM had the package for a 1-2 easily. In fact there was more than enough time for Pol to catch the impressive Binder.

If Pol did come back to the line a bit slower and more gently sure Zarco won the corner but it might have meant Pol won the race.

He might have ‘technically’ been in the right but you don’t find any trophies in the gravel trap.

The best of the best, the ones that have world championship blood in their veins are also cunning enough not to leave themselves as exposed as Pol did. They know whihch battles to fight and which ones to leave alone.

A MotoGP rider looking for results needs to have better race craft than that. Rather than chucking a little hissy fits they would be better focusing their attention on improving their race craft.

Sorry for Pol fans but that was a just dumb considering what was on the line. If I was his team boss he would hve received a boot up his rear end. So much investment from KTM into MotoGP, you shouldn't through potential results like that away.

Who knows maybe a bit of brain fade from seeing his rookie team mate disappearing.

The Penalty

Ooh and that penalty, do we think Zarco deserved it? Yes and for that matter if Pol didn’t crash we would have given the same long lap loop too. As we said, technically it was a 50/50.

Nothing wrong with having a go at opportunities like that but you must be prepared to cop a little bit of a penalty if you stuff it up. If Zarco got a little further up the inside, no penalty but he didn't.
 
That's our opinion, let us know yours.
 
Also let us know if Zarco deserves a 2nd trophy for how fast the took the long lap loop, that was sick!

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Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: MotoGP 2020
« Reply #699 on: August 13, 2020, 11:12:53 am »
Listening to Leitner from KTM, they are giving a lot of praise to Pedrosa for his help in developing the bike to a point that it can win. He apparently was at the circuit testing earlier in the year.

KTM is still on concessions and can therefore have private tests on GP circuits when the other manufacturers are not allowed to test.   KTM tested extensively at Brno a week before the GP and a day afterward.  I am not sure about the testing prior to the GP, but the testing the day after had Dani, Brad, Pol and Oli testing.

Dani does have a huge hand in the improvement of the bike, but I believe both Brad and Oli also brought some excellent advice to the party.  I think KTM is slowly but surely and perhaps a bit stealth like building the dream team.

When they appointed Dani as test rider, many loudly proclaimed what a crap idea that was.  He is too small.  He is an introvert.  He only knows Honda.  Even here, the idea was made out to be a crappy one.  Yet, here we are, singing his praises.  KTM management should also be praised.  The best test rider in the world, is useless if management is not hearing him.  KTM appointed him and took his inputs seriously.  Very seriously.

Then, there is Brad and Oli.  Both have now come from Red Bull Rookies Cup, via Moto3 and Moto2 as part of the KTM team and family.  When Zarco left, they could have signed anyone of a few riders.  They promoted Brad.  Now that Pol is leaving, they again could have signed anyone of a few riders.  They promoted Oliviera.  Clearly working with a plan.

You are so right about Pedrosa.. he couldnt move without getting beaten up by almost everyone, mainly because he was in the Honda team for way too long, its really good to hear some positive come out of his move.
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