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Author Topic: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X  (Read 2049 times)

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2020, 07:49:24 pm »
The 2020 300 is all that people say and more. It almost feels tame compared to older bikes until you measure overall average speeds and or compare it to where you used to ride.
Its faster than it feels. Smooth motor and power delivery makes it a winner. Cant compare it to a 250X really.
I'd do roof on my 2014 but would rather enjoy the 2020. There are 4 era's you still see out there, the pre 2011 with no kick start, the 12-16 era, the 17-19 with balancer and now the 2020+
You have to do suspension work on any bike you get out the box.  The 250X can compete against the pre 2011 and maybe be a better choice but its coming second when compared to a 2012+ thats still in good nick.

Kyle Flanagan knows he was at a disadvantage racing against the Sherco and KTM's at the last roof.

Just make sure that you get KTM to fix the leaking power valve cover on a 2020. Older ones did not have this issue.

2012 falls into the 08+ boat.  Still had the poor starter.

If you want a 300 carb buy the cleanest 13-18 you can find. (yes there are 18 carb models but rather scarce).
If you want a TPI (dont) buy a (18) 19 or 20.

Welcome to take my 19 for a spin if you in or around GP :thumleft:

@Tman21 net 'n vraag... hoekom se jy (don't)???  Is daar iets fout met die tpi, of gee hulle probleme met injectors?  Of is dit maar net duur as dit kom by maintenance?    Ek vra maar want ek ry 'n 4T.

I think he meant to say not to buy a 18 TPI, rather the 19 or 20.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2020, 07:51:47 pm »
Actually, I have a strong hunch that Yamaha may be building the 300 for KTM/Husky, they're that good.
 

Offline Tman21

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2020, 08:43:14 pm »
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.
Stroom op!
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2020, 09:05:00 pm »
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

What is the standard final drive ratio?
 

Offline Crankshaft

Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2020, 09:25:05 pm »
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

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Offline Tman21

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2020, 07:25:43 am »
13:50 Dan
Stroom op!
 

Offline Dux

Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2020, 07:33:35 am »
I had a YZ250 2T (not the X though) before the current 300. I loved the Yamaha simplicity, suspension and kick. However, it had the tendency to kill a plug , especially goiing slowly on a very long, steep downhill. Something to doe with engine character, angle of carb, etc..etc.


This is jetting related , and usually as a result of the float height being too high , when sorted they won’t do this any more
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Offline Dwerg

Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2020, 07:40:50 am »
They talk about a whyzee but I think they meant YZ

Previous: KTM 690R, 790ADV, 640ADV, 950ADV, 250XCW BMW F650GS Single, F650GS Twin, F800GS, G450X, R50/2 Honda CRF450X, CRF230 x 2, VFR400 NC30, Z50 Mini Trail Yamaha BWS100 x 2, LB80 Chappy
 

Offline B.V.

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2020, 09:08:51 am »
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

I bought  the last 2018 carb 300 that KTM Cape Town sold. Luv simplicity. Bike have now 40 hours on. Luv the bike. But the carb is like dog. When you leave it for a week there is a puddle under it. I always close the tap. The 2013 never did it. This being said. The bike is realy fast. Would take the the 250 next. This coming from a roof rider that had about 8 300s.
 

Offline Tman21

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2020, 09:37:29 am »
Excellent choice, I bought a 2017 and rebuilt it head to toes and had the jetting perfected.

Unfortunately the Shitkini's (carb) as rumors had it was due to the fact that they had planned the entire 2018 range to be TPI and the Keihin deal was not on the table anymore.

A carb is a carb and they are all highly tuneable, I beleive all of them can be perfected with patience.  I sold my 17 300 to a Mechanic and he has not touched the jetting since and started applying these settings to other 17/18 300's that comes through his shop.

Attached are some settings I gathered if it helps:
Stroom op!
 

Offline Tman21

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2020, 09:40:16 am »
They talk about a whyzee but I think they meant YZ



( I did not watch this video)
Not fond of Mr Brotherson but note that he is comparing the Cross Country version (Read:  Angry snappy but tamed MX bike) to the YZ.  But also need to consider our XCW to XC sales ratio has to be the exact opposite of the states. 
Stroom op!
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2020, 10:02:19 am »
Yeah I don't usually watch his stuff but I remembered that vid from when I was looking for content on the FX.

Still some valid stuff in there though
Previous: KTM 690R, 790ADV, 640ADV, 950ADV, 250XCW BMW F650GS Single, F650GS Twin, F800GS, G450X, R50/2 Honda CRF450X, CRF230 x 2, VFR400 NC30, Z50 Mini Trail Yamaha BWS100 x 2, LB80 Chappy
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2020, 10:19:14 am »
Yeah I don't usually watch his stuff but I remembered that vid from when I was looking for content on the FX.

Still some valid stuff in there though

Absolutely all valid stuff, one of the closest to what I have seen these bikes perform like on the ground.

Here in SA, the Yam is considerably cheaper, but, as the video points out, it misses the Hyd clutch, E-start and then that extra low-end grunt.

I would always like to have a kickstarter on a bike, but the E-start is quite important to have.
 

Offline Tman21

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2020, 10:45:33 am »
Another review on the X

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ulzvU7WWc0k&feature=youtu.be

Perhaps a 4T but in 600hrs of severe hard Enduro abuse my 2105 Husqvarna 250FE never failed me once and it did not have a kick starter either.

52hrs on the TPI and I have not used the Kickstarter after checking that it works upon delivery.
Stroom op!
 

Offline Sheepman

Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2020, 10:54:37 am »
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

I bought  the last 2018 carb 300 that KTM Cape Town sold. Luv simplicity. Bike have now 40 hours on. Luv the bike. But the carb is like dog. When you leave it for a week there is a puddle under it. I always close the tap. The 2013 never did it. This being said. The bike is realy fast. Would take the the 250 next. This coming from a roof rider that had about 8 300s.

Very insightful.I own older 300 's,  a low hour 2011 well kept and a low hour 2013 model ( clearly don't ride enough  :laughing4: ). Strangely, I prefer riding the older bike, although its more sensitive to correct ( or incorrect ) fueling. I am curious as to why you would want to change to a 250.
 

Offline plonker

Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2020, 11:51:46 am »
I havent been on 2T engined bikes for years. Drove them as a schoolboy were they were dead until breaking loose and bolting.

Read that the 300 is great at low rpm and manageable when it comes into power.

I want to know how the 250X would compare low down? Do they also have the good low down torque and manageable power?

X is a much cheaper option than 300, hence my question?

Just asking out curiosity. Not able to buy now.





So have all the posts answered your question. To me a used 300 KTM without a question for the lower down torque. As a nice weekend play bike and not being so fit I don't want to have to "ride" the bike all day and keep it in the powerband to have fun. I think the 300 will putter putter much more easily than the 250.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 11:53:51 am by plonker »
 

Offline Tman21

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2020, 12:48:25 pm »
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

I bought  the last 2018 carb 300 that KTM Cape Town sold. Luv simplicity. Bike have now 40 hours on. Luv the bike. But the carb is like dog. When you leave it for a week there is a puddle under it. I always close the tap. The 2013 never did it. This being said. The bike is realy fast. Would take the the 250 next. This coming from a roof rider that had about 8 300s.

Very insightful.I own older 300 's,  a low hour 2011 well kept and a low hour 2013 model ( clearly don't ride enough  :laughing4: ). Strangely, I prefer riding the older bike, although its more sensitive to correct ( or incorrect ) fueling. I am curious as to why you would want to change to a 250.

If I can add on the 250 vs 300 debate, sticking to the Austrian stable.

Ive been 92 +- 2K for the last several years (dropped some Krismis pudding and sitting pretty at 84 now but thats besides the point) and I have extensively races 200,250,300.

For an extremely long day the 250 does not wear you out as much but in certain situations it will require a tad bit more finesse or skill or else you will be punished.  The 250 is extremely capable (I completed 2014 Silver roof with a 2014 250) but gear selection is way more crucial or else it might punish you.  In a tricky situation where you are idling in 2nd-3rd gear you might get away with using the clutch on the 300 for a ledge whereas on the 250 not so much.  If you are mindful and adapted to the 250 and your square edges arent a problem then you wouldve know to be in 2nd gear even before you reach the obstacle.

Have not had the chance to test 250 vs 300 back to back on TPI platform but from my TPI experience if I was given the opportunity to buy a new bike again I would have to seriously think long and hard to make the choice as the linear power delivery of the TPI is unrivaled at this point in time and im pretty sure that a modern 250 will be able to put down similar torque if not more than previous generation 300's.
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Offline Tman21

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Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2020, 12:53:26 pm »
Lots of valid opinions on here thus far however if OP can assist with his budget there can be even more insightful feedback.

If I read new YZ 250X  (thinking 90K new without extras) im thinking of around a 100K budget which could very well n a couple of months land Original poster a 2020 TPI model with the arrival of new bikes (if exchange rate does not convince people to hold onto their current models a bit longer).

If we thinking 2nd hand lower bracket 16-18 YZ250X the budget will be closer to 60K and I would then say rather go for a well sorted/kitted 2017 model.

45-50K bracket will land you a really nice 2016 which in my opinion one of the better models ever produced if im making any sense here.
Stroom op!
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2020, 01:07:51 pm »
Look let's be honest, if it's your first dirt bike, pretty much anything will do the job better than you can. Don't over think it. Get a budget and buy any good condition enduro bike.
Previous: KTM 690R, 790ADV, 640ADV, 950ADV, 250XCW BMW F650GS Single, F650GS Twin, F800GS, G450X, R50/2 Honda CRF450X, CRF230 x 2, VFR400 NC30, Z50 Mini Trail Yamaha BWS100 x 2, LB80 Chappy
 

Offline plonker

Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2020, 03:07:05 pm »
Agree with Dwerg. Maybe a KTM 200 for a year would be a great learning platform. Provided bike is well maintained and in good nick don't over think "Just Do It"  :biggrin: