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Offline Bwana

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Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2020, 02:59:02 pm »
Multi-Valve Engines had been around a long time Audi and Mitsubishi I think were the first with 5 Valves on twin cams mass produced. Toyota just as usual marketed better and made them more affordable. Those Yammy 5 valve bikes had a nice sound.
 

Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2020, 03:02:50 pm »
Yamaha also make a lot of electric motors used in the bicycle industry...Giant electric bicycles are all yamaha motors i think.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2020, 05:28:03 pm »
Five valves really made a difference ? Think Yamaha dropped it later ? Too complex ?

Yamaha actually stated in the early 80's, before launching the 1st 5-valve FZ, that they consider their tested 7 valve per cylinder the optimum, but that client self-service could become too complex.

 

Offline BuRP

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2020, 06:52:29 pm »
Five valves really made a difference ? Think Yamaha dropped it later ? Too complex ?

Negligible gains not really offsetting the extra complexity & cost.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2020, 07:00:07 pm »
Five valves really made a difference ? Think Yamaha dropped it later ? Too complex ?

Negligible gains not really offsetting the extra complexity & cost.

Exactly, and also why Yamaha is back to 4.

But in the 80's it was big stuff.
 

Offline Odd Dog

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2020, 04:09:01 pm »
The WR's also had a 5v/v engine.
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Offline BFG

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Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2020, 10:43:42 pm »
If I'm not mistaken Lexus went to Yamaha to design the exhaust for the LFA, not only for the the performance but to get the sound right.
 

Offline GeenSand

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2020, 07:14:20 am »
Toyota own shares in Yamaha and vice versa. So they share some developments and costs.

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2020, 09:02:12 am »
A company with the huge reliability tag of Toyota, and the best-selling one too, does not become so by hanging with losers.

By wisely associating withtop experts in the field, they achieve greatness.

When Toyota decided to go multivalve in the 80's, they did not re-invent the wheel. They simply got the leaders in that field to design their engines.

And it is no chance of luck that those RSI multivalve engines survived the severe testbenches of Kraaifontein, Boksburg, Klerksdorp, etc. :thumleft:
 

Offline Saddle Up

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2020, 09:21:11 am »
If I'm not mistaken Lexus went to Yamaha to design the exhaust for the LFA, not only for the the performance but to get the sound right.

Did Yamaha not first manufacture the cylinder head and then ended up designing the enjin ?
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Offline mike gs

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2020, 11:19:04 am »
They do a lot. Cylinder heads for Lexus. Built some complete motors for Ford in the past. Volvo V8's. Also did F1 motors for Zakspeed at a point.  Toyota is also looking at getting them to do the current F1 motor they supply.  As a matter of interest , Toyota also owns shares in Suzuki and Mazda.

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Offline Offshore

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2020, 11:34:08 am »
They do a lot. Cylinder heads for Lexus. Built some complete motors for Ford in the past. Volvo V8's. Also did F1 motors for Zakspeed at a point.  Toyota is also looking at getting them to do the current F1 motor they supply.  As a matter of interest , Toyota also owns shares in Suzuki and Mazda.

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Offline mike gs

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2020, 01:11:50 pm »
@offshore,you're correct my post is inaccurate. I read somewhere that Toyota has F1 aspirations again, and Yamaha may do the engine development

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Offline Offshore

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2020, 01:58:25 pm »
@Offshore,you're correct my post is inaccurate. I read somewhere that Toyota has F1 aspirations again, and Yamaha may do the engine development

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No Problem Mike. Whilst I agree that Yamaha makes reputable Products, I do not think they want to enter F1 any Time soon again. It was a disastrous attempt that I don't think they would to repeat. See the link below.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-results/all-time-f1-engine-brand-ranking/
 
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2020, 05:24:51 pm »
@Offshore,you're correct my post is inaccurate. I read somewhere that Toyota has F1 aspirations again, and Yamaha may do the engine development

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No Problem Mike. Whilst I agree that Yamaha makes reputable Products, I do not think they want to enter F1 any Time soon again. It was a disastrous attempt that I don't think they would to repeat. See the link below.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-results/all-time-f1-engine-brand-ranking/


While Yamaha "dappled" a little in F1, they were never going to put in the amount of effort that Renault, Ferarri, Merc is putting in. They do not have the resources.

Their F1 efforts have all been in collaboration with other teams/makers.
 

Offline BuRP

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2020, 06:13:25 pm »
While Yamaha "dappled" a little in F1, they .................  do not have the resources.

And a pity that is, as they're at the forefront of the technology of performance 4stroke engines.
Mazda's similar but more on economical engines, surprisingly lean burning ones.
Oh well, post-Covid the world's markets will be c o m p l e t e l y different, let's see what will surprise us next  ;)
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Offline Bensien

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2020, 07:14:24 pm »
Just about every industry in Japan is part of eight large and a few smaller business conglomerates called keiretsus,which are structured horizontally and verticallly The horizontal members don’t necessarily have shares in each other, but have joint majority shareholders (usually a bank)  Toyota is part of the Mitsui keiretsu, that horizontally also includes Fuji industries and Toshiba Toyota’s vertical keiretsu includes Subaru, Diahatsu, Subaru, Hino as well as steel and petroleum companies. It is possible for outside companies to have shares in a member of a keiretsu, but it is seldom a significant percentage.

Yamaha is part of the Fuyo keirestsu that also includes Nissan and Hitachi. While the fellow members of  keirestus tend to give the other members of their group first priority and access to their technology, they also cooperate with members outside their group. One of the companies in Nissan’s vertical keiretsu supplies differentials to Subaru, and Yamaha supplies engine technology to Toyota.

The reason Yamaha is not in F1, is because they will compete with the Nissan/Renault alliance. It is possible that the Renault F1 engines have some Yamaha DNA

« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 07:17:03 pm by Bensien »
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Offline Offshore

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2020, 08:05:00 pm »
Just about every industry in Japan is part of eight large and a few smaller business conglomerates called keiretsus,which are structured horizontally and verticallly The horizontal members don’t necessarily have shares in each other, but have joint majority shareholders (usually a bank)  Toyota is part of the Mitsui keiretsu, that horizontally also includes Fuji industries and Toshiba Toyota’s vertical keiretsu includes Subaru, Diahatsu, Subaru, Hino as well as steel and petroleum companies. It is possible for outside companies to have shares in a member of a keiretsu, but it is seldom a significant percentage.

Yamaha is part of the Fuyo keirestsu that also includes Nissan and Hitachi. While the fellow members of  keirestus tend to give the other members of their group first priority and access to their technology, they also cooperate with members outside their group. One of the companies in Nissan’s vertical keiretsu supplies differentials to Subaru, and Yamaha supplies engine technology to Toyota.

The reason Yamaha is not in F1, is because they will compete with the Nissan/Renault alliance. It is possible that the Renault F1 engines have some Yamaha DNA
Mercedes Benz is Part of the Renault, Nissan, Mitsubishi and they compete against each other. The Renault F1 Engines are developed by Renault with the Hybrid Part in Conjunction with Nissan, no Yamaha DNA.
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Offline Offshore

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2020, 08:09:00 pm »
While Yamaha "dappled" a little in F1, they were never going to put in the amount of effort that Renault, Ferarri, Merc is putting in. They do not have the resources.

Sorry Dan, here is the real Answer from Wikipedia

Formula One
Yamaha as a Formula One engine manufacturer
Formula One World Championship career
First entry   1989 Brazilian Grand Prix
Last entry   1997 European Grand Prix
Races entered   130 (116 starts)
Chassis   Zakspeed, Brabham, Jordan, Tyrrell, Arrows
Constructors' Championships   0
Drivers'
Championships   0
Race victories   0
Podiums   2
Points   36
Pole positions   0
Fastest laps   0
Yamaha produced Formula One engines from 1989 to 1997, initially for the Zakspeed team, in 1991 for the Brabham BT60Y, in 1992 for the Jordan 192, from 1993 to 1996 for Tyrrell, and in 1997 for the Arrows A18. These never won a race, but drivers including Damon Hill, Ukyo Katayama, Mark Blundell and Mika Salo scored some acceptable results with them. However their engines were often unreliable and were usually regarded as not very powerful.
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Offline Bensien

Re: Yamaha, I never knew
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2020, 08:32:00 pm »
Just about every industry in Japan is part of eight large and a few smaller business conglomerates called keiretsus,which are structured horizontally and verticallly The horizontal members don’t necessarily have shares in each other, but have joint majority shareholders (usually a bank)  Toyota is part of the Mitsui keiretsu, that horizontally also includes Fuji industries and Toshiba Toyota’s vertical keiretsu includes Subaru, Diahatsu, Subaru, Hino as well as steel and petroleum companies. It is possible for outside companies to have shares in a member of a keiretsu, but it is seldom a significant percentage.

Yamaha is part of the Fuyo keirestsu that also includes Nissan and Hitachi. While the fellow members of  keirestus tend to give the other members of their group first priority and access to their technology, they also cooperate with members outside their group. One of the companies in Nissan’s vertical keiretsu supplies differentials to Subaru, and Yamaha supplies engine technology to Toyota.

The reason Yamaha is not in F1, is because they will compete with the Nissan/Renault alliance. It is possible that the Renault F1 engines have some Yamaha DNA
Mercedes Benz is Part of the Renault, Nissan, Mitsubishi and they compete against each other. The Renault F1 Engines are developed by Renault with the Hybrid Part in Conjunction with Nissan, no Yamaha DNA.

Mercedes is not part of the Nissan/Renault alliance. They have a joint venture and technology exchange agreement but no direct shareholding in each other
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