malcolmt
Pack Dog
Hi Folks,
It’s been eons since I posted on the forum. My F650 just runs, and runs, it’s been utterly reliable with one exception. It’s had the cold starting problem for a couple of years, when the temperature drops below about 10 deg c it won’t start till the temperature is at least 15 deg c. This year I’m determined to figure it out.
My bikes a 2004 twin spark with close to 100,000kms on the clock and I’ve given the old girl a serious service and hoped to find the cause. But no luck as yet.
I’ve read a number of posts about the same problem, and checked everything mentioned.
Hitting the starter button she cranks strongly but doesn’t fire up. If I continue to crank the engine you’ll hear it firing and the cranking speeds up but the sticks don’t seem to catch. Opening the throttle and I get a backfire through the throttle body. Squirting some engine start into the throttle body makes the motor fire up until spray has been burnt, then it stops.
Hitting the starter at lunchtime when it’s warmer, she’ll fire up in a heartbeat and idle purrrfectly. And ride superbly on the road.
This what I’ve been through in the last week……….
Valve Clearance: Checked them, all four are within spec
Battery: Brand new Motobat, it was replaced last week and has been kept charged whilst I fiddle. Leaving the charger on overnight didn’t help. Even adding
jumper leads to the car didn’t help. The terminals are nice and tight.
Throttle body: Was removed and cleaned, the rubber seal to the head adapter is perfect, no cracks for leaking air. The same goes for the rubber adapter between the head and the throttle body. The throttle cable has a little slack and the butterfly rests on the stop.
Throttle position sensor: I removed it and checked with the multimeter. It’s just a 3 terminal pot and it checked out OK. The socket side checked out OK, it has 5.00v on the two outside terminals.
Air Temp sensor: I checked its resistance to a table of ohms / deg c. I checked it at body heat, in the fridge, and the freezer. Its resistance was very close to the table. The socket has 5v when disconnected. This morning I connected a 5.6k ohm resistor in place of the sensor, this would trick the computer into thinking the air is about 26deg c, it had no effect, it just cranked.
Idle Control Valve: This was removed and cleaned with carb cleaner. It had only a snifter of black deposit on it. When the ignition is switched on the plunger moves in and out. And when the bike runs, the idle is perfect.
Water Temperature Sensor: With the engine slightly warm (maybe 30deg c), the sensor reads 2k ohm. Running the engine for 5mins, it drops to 200 ohm. Playing with different resistors in the sensor socket I can make the fan run and turn on the over temperature light. This doesn’t to be the problem. Does anyone know if this sensor reading is used to richen the fuel mixture with a cold engine ?
Injector: It puts out uniform spray of fuel when cranked.
Spark Plugs: They were replaced last winter. They’re like new, the electrodes are clean, with no deposits. The gap is correct and hasn’t been touched since last year.
Oil: The oil is brand new, it’s regular car 20/50. I’m aware the oil should be thinner, but the motor does crank strongly and it’s not as though the crank is sloshing around in cold treacle with it being a dry sump. Also I cannot see the oil viscosity changing significantly in 3 hours as the air temperature rises from 5 deg c to 15deg c.
Engine compression.
Valve lifter active = 40psi (275kpa)
Valve lifter disabled dry cylinder 180-210psi ( 1240-1450kpa)
Valve lifter disabled wet cylinder 190-210psi (1310-1450kpa)
The compression seems to be excellent for the age of the bike.
The bike has plenty of power when running, idles perfectly at 1500rpm, and give me around 3.5l/100km so it seems once it runs everything is spot on. It doesn’t burn oil, I’ve rarely topped up the oil between services.
One thing I’ve noticed when I keep cranking the motor on cold morning, if I open the throttle it often back fires into the throttle body, I’m sure of this because the air box is still disconnected and I’ve seen the yellow flame. Initially I thought I was onto something as the inlet valves should be closed when it fires. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the ignition sparks every revolution and the backfire is caused by unburnt fuel in the cylinder after exhaust stroke.
That’s everything I’ve checked and found nothing which might cause the issue.
Can anyone suggest anything I’ve missed? I’ve totally run out of ideas.
At the moment I see the only solution is to move nearer to the equator to avoid winter.
Regards
MalcolmT
It’s been eons since I posted on the forum. My F650 just runs, and runs, it’s been utterly reliable with one exception. It’s had the cold starting problem for a couple of years, when the temperature drops below about 10 deg c it won’t start till the temperature is at least 15 deg c. This year I’m determined to figure it out.
My bikes a 2004 twin spark with close to 100,000kms on the clock and I’ve given the old girl a serious service and hoped to find the cause. But no luck as yet.
I’ve read a number of posts about the same problem, and checked everything mentioned.
Hitting the starter button she cranks strongly but doesn’t fire up. If I continue to crank the engine you’ll hear it firing and the cranking speeds up but the sticks don’t seem to catch. Opening the throttle and I get a backfire through the throttle body. Squirting some engine start into the throttle body makes the motor fire up until spray has been burnt, then it stops.
Hitting the starter at lunchtime when it’s warmer, she’ll fire up in a heartbeat and idle purrrfectly. And ride superbly on the road.
This what I’ve been through in the last week……….
Valve Clearance: Checked them, all four are within spec
Battery: Brand new Motobat, it was replaced last week and has been kept charged whilst I fiddle. Leaving the charger on overnight didn’t help. Even adding
jumper leads to the car didn’t help. The terminals are nice and tight.
Throttle body: Was removed and cleaned, the rubber seal to the head adapter is perfect, no cracks for leaking air. The same goes for the rubber adapter between the head and the throttle body. The throttle cable has a little slack and the butterfly rests on the stop.
Throttle position sensor: I removed it and checked with the multimeter. It’s just a 3 terminal pot and it checked out OK. The socket side checked out OK, it has 5.00v on the two outside terminals.
Air Temp sensor: I checked its resistance to a table of ohms / deg c. I checked it at body heat, in the fridge, and the freezer. Its resistance was very close to the table. The socket has 5v when disconnected. This morning I connected a 5.6k ohm resistor in place of the sensor, this would trick the computer into thinking the air is about 26deg c, it had no effect, it just cranked.
Idle Control Valve: This was removed and cleaned with carb cleaner. It had only a snifter of black deposit on it. When the ignition is switched on the plunger moves in and out. And when the bike runs, the idle is perfect.
Water Temperature Sensor: With the engine slightly warm (maybe 30deg c), the sensor reads 2k ohm. Running the engine for 5mins, it drops to 200 ohm. Playing with different resistors in the sensor socket I can make the fan run and turn on the over temperature light. This doesn’t to be the problem. Does anyone know if this sensor reading is used to richen the fuel mixture with a cold engine ?
Injector: It puts out uniform spray of fuel when cranked.
Spark Plugs: They were replaced last winter. They’re like new, the electrodes are clean, with no deposits. The gap is correct and hasn’t been touched since last year.
Oil: The oil is brand new, it’s regular car 20/50. I’m aware the oil should be thinner, but the motor does crank strongly and it’s not as though the crank is sloshing around in cold treacle with it being a dry sump. Also I cannot see the oil viscosity changing significantly in 3 hours as the air temperature rises from 5 deg c to 15deg c.
Engine compression.
Valve lifter active = 40psi (275kpa)
Valve lifter disabled dry cylinder 180-210psi ( 1240-1450kpa)
Valve lifter disabled wet cylinder 190-210psi (1310-1450kpa)
The compression seems to be excellent for the age of the bike.
The bike has plenty of power when running, idles perfectly at 1500rpm, and give me around 3.5l/100km so it seems once it runs everything is spot on. It doesn’t burn oil, I’ve rarely topped up the oil between services.
One thing I’ve noticed when I keep cranking the motor on cold morning, if I open the throttle it often back fires into the throttle body, I’m sure of this because the air box is still disconnected and I’ve seen the yellow flame. Initially I thought I was onto something as the inlet valves should be closed when it fires. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the ignition sparks every revolution and the backfire is caused by unburnt fuel in the cylinder after exhaust stroke.
That’s everything I’ve checked and found nothing which might cause the issue.
Can anyone suggest anything I’ve missed? I’ve totally run out of ideas.
At the moment I see the only solution is to move nearer to the equator to avoid winter.
Regards
MalcolmT
