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Author Topic: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself  (Read 3356 times)

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2020, 12:18:10 pm »
aa hd rider and fan ..hd will outlive trump i reckon... they are big in states , big in many 3rdworld type countries and they are modernising while keeping the old school style and look … minute they re release easyrider in good economy sales will increase..
saying all this i haven't watched the clip yet but will soon … as soon as salt mine allows extra time a bit

HD will never disappear, it is, whatever you thinkof the product, an American icon, part of it's history.

Yet, the company should have disappeared several times in it's lifetime, through financial mismanagement, and were propped up by government.

Sounds like SAA.
 

Offline madmax

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2020, 06:05:03 am »
they lived through the amf years albeit just i think.. but buyout by staff shows massive belief at the time
fornicate the proletariat
 

Offline Roxtar

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2020, 02:09:57 pm »
I subscribe to the F9 channel, mostly I tend to agree with Ryans views, also on the Harley topic.... hopefully someone can come in and bail them out before they also belong to an offshore company like so many others ….
Long live the Underdog.........
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2020, 02:27:29 pm »
Smiled at one Youtube comment; " HD, selling yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices" :imaposer:
 

Offline dw1

Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2020, 07:48:19 pm »
It will probably also end up in the hands of the kind people who brought you the Chinese virus.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2020, 10:36:33 pm »
It will probably also end up in the hands of the kind people who brought you the Chinese virus.

Or in Bajaj's bed, with BMW and KTM.....

The 3 stooges.
 

Offline dw1

Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2020, 10:46:08 pm »
Haha yeah 3 stooges - but you have to give them credit - they can at least produce a bike and distribute it world wide unlike our other one eyed king from the land of the rising sun. :laughing4:
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Offline madmax

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2020, 07:15:38 am »
wed the vids..very interesting .. shows business side us mere mortals never see or think of ..i presume the facts and figures etc are correct and not fake news items … one doesn't know what to say ..i think the strategy to aim at youngsters and bring em in to brand is good ..opening new world wide markets and cheaper manufacturing while not good for yankland maybe is good for rest of world and asia , south America Africa can save them maybe..time and corona and whatever is next in the list will tell..

if hd goes it will be sad ..very sad ..but bimota triumph Norton indian guzzi ducati (endless list i guess) all resurrected on one level or another so who knows
fornicate the proletariat
 

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Offline IceCreamMan

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2020, 11:39:06 am »
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-impala/harleys-activist-investor-backs-business-reboot-strategy-idUSKBN25G239?fbclid=IwAR35V5D88mg6MPap3XAhE-0ZFCNKm_9qxPV5qdWZ9ZlyWr2yoPjYDosQzuQ

Seems someone has been put in the driving seat that actually knows the demographic the brand targets.

Yeah, those predicting the demise were a lil premature. The Harley brand is massively strong. Looking at footage from sturgis and looking at bike nights in my area Harley ain’t dying. It’s a massive appeal brand and huge fan base. 

I believe they have dropped the cafe racer they had shown previously , that’s a pity but understandable.
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Offline Odd Dog

Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2020, 07:27:57 am »

Harley did have a 65cc "monkey bike" they also had 50cc bikes, back in 60s and 70s.

https://nationalmcmuseum.org/2019/05/31/1972-harley-davidson-mc-65-shortster/

HD missed one great component of the Japanese bikes, reliability. People quickly learnt that you buy a Jap bike because you get real value for your money.

Just like the American car manufacturers, some died and most had massive production drops but survived. You see more Jap cars on their roads these days.
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Online KiLRoy

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2020, 08:12:35 am »
 

Offline Guido

Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2020, 01:45:11 pm »
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-impala/harleys-activist-investor-backs-business-reboot-strategy-idUSKBN25G239?fbclid=IwAR35V5D88mg6MPap3XAhE-0ZFCNKm_9qxPV5qdWZ9ZlyWr2yoPjYDosQzuQ

Seems someone has been put in the driving seat that actually knows the demographic the brand targets.

Yeah, those predicting the demise were a lil premature. The Harley brand is massively strong. Looking at footage from sturgis and looking at bike nights in my area Harley ain’t dying. It’s a massive appeal brand and huge fan base. 

I believe they have dropped the cafe racer they had shown previously , that’s a pity but understandable.

For sure! The Harley following is massive, when you ride in the USA you understand just how big it actually is. Their biggest mistake was trying to target the ‘young’ market with 35-45 000 usd motorcycles, would never work. Harley isn’t going anywhere, I hope the changes made bring them back up to where they should be.
 

Offline dw1

Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2020, 10:31:25 pm »
they might not disappear but their heyday is over. Demographics is their death knell. 10000 per day retiring in the USA. The Baby boomer generation who is also HD's main customer base.
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Offline Guido

Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2020, 03:27:35 am »
they might not disappear but their heyday is over. Demographics is their death knell. 10000 per day retiring in the USA. The Baby boomer generation who is also HD's main customer base.

Retirement has nothing to do with it. The average age of retirement in the USA is slightly under 60 years old, with 64 percent of the population retiring between 55-65. The average age of a Harley Davidson owner in the last few years has been reduced dramatically, 2019 it was 46. Harley Davidson own 50 percent of the American market share. On the path they were a year ago, trying to target a much younger crowd and making the bike affordable to a wider range of the world population I firmly believed as a brand they were history. However, with the new leadership taking over in February, and announcing their plan to reduce production, and cut supply to many parts of the world that do not fit in with the original Big, heavy, expensive Harley Davidson trade mark, i believe the ‘death knell’ is a long way off. The market share will certainly be reduced, but the brand will become more exclusive, and intern more valuable. The other thing people tend to forget, Incase you haven’t been to any american( or even South African dealers to a certain extent)  most dealers in the USA are two story, bikes down stairs, apparel upstairs( or vice versa) in many cases, the apparel section is larger than the bike section, and if you have ever bought a HD t shirt, you will know that you can buy 5 t shirts at many other shops for the same price as one Hd t shirt, they are crazy expensive, but they still sell out. The brand as a whole is about far more than the motorcycle, it’s about the lifestyle, which fits perfectly into the history of the American dream, which even a new age 14 year old understands.
I work in a country with a very new Hd following, shop has been open for 5 years, closed a few times in between, this is a photo taken a few sundays ago, this is what an average Sunday ride looks like, bearing in mind vehicle tax here is 75 percent you are looking at two to three times the price of a new HD in SA, let’s say in rand terms around R 800 000-1400 000 a bike. Show me another brand that comes close.


« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 03:28:37 am by Guido »
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2020, 07:37:55 am »
Guido, the problem with reirees in America, currently, is that they retire poor.

Many Americans is something like 400usd from bancruptcy, and do not have the money for new bikes.

Harley rode the wave of success, and made the mistake of branding itself as exclusive.

I believe that you can only fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but never all, all the time.

This was Harley's problem, literally jazzing up old and not-that-well-built products as premium and expensive vehicles.

But, they'll get bailed once again, and continue to lumber down our roads.
 

Offline Guido

Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2020, 08:08:03 am »
Guido, the problem with reirees in America, currently, is that they retire poor.

Many Americans is something like 400usd from bancruptcy, and do not have the money for new bikes.

Harley rode the wave of success, and made the mistake of branding itself as exclusive.

I believe that you can only fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but never all, all the time.

This was Harley's problem, literally jazzing up old and not-that-well-built products as premium and expensive vehicles.

But, they'll get bailed once again, and continue to lumber down our roads.

I agree with you entirely Dan, the reason for this is most house holds live in debt their entire lives, because credit is very easy to get, even with a fairly poor income,  reduce production and supply to many parts of the world and make the brand more exclusive. I don’t think they have fooled anybody. I agree with the statement  ‘ not that well built’ for the entry level sportsters etc, which are not entirely  manufactured in the USA , parts etc for these bikes are largely manufactured in Asia as a result of the reduced labor cost, This comes with a penalty being quality, because they are there to target the budget market, however, once you get to the big touring bikes, which are manufactured entirely in America, they are far superior quality wise to most dual sport bikes I have owned( KTM,BMW, HONDA) but that comes at a serious cost, if you use SA as an example, a new HD touring bike will set you back R400-500 000.
 

Online KiLRoy

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2020, 08:12:00 am »
What is this ‘lifestyle’ they are selling?  I never quite got it?
 

Offline Guido

Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2020, 08:56:24 am »
What is this ‘lifestyle’ they are selling?  I never quite got it?

That is pretty difficult to explain, because it only really exists in small doses in South Africa. When life is back to normal, take a drive past your local Hd early on a Saturday/ Sunday morning and you will get the idea. 
 

Online Wild Hearted Son

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Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2020, 09:19:03 am »
... once you get to the big touring bikes, which are manufactured entirely in America

Entirely assembled maybe , not manufactured  - go & look at,  just as a quick example,  the forks , brakes & shocks on your Road Glide
My Ultra has Showa forks & rear shocks & Brembo brakes.
I'm happy with that & they are recognised international quality brands.

Probably the only bikes manufactured entirely in 1 particular country are Japanese bikes
Why re-invent the wheel ?

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