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Offline valkerieforever

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Going off-road
« on: July 20, 2020, 07:33:27 am »
I very recently acquired a F800GS (2013 model). It still has brand new anakee tyres on. I went for a quick off-road (see dirt road) trip with my  brother-in-law over the weekend. I did notice that the bike handled well on the harder surfaces but felt (see inexperienced dirt rider) unstable on the more sandy patches. I kept my speed between 30 and 60 kph when I hit the sandy patches. I also disabled the ABS and Traction assist (I think that is what you call it).

My question is as follows (aside fromt he obvious need to go for a bit of training):

Would it be a good idea (yes, I know it will be expensive) to get a second set of rims that I can put knobbly tyres on and swop out the rims when we go riding off road. The off-road trips will be few and far between as I will be spending a lot more time on the tar road communting.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2020, 07:50:39 am »
Your rear is not that important, but the front benefits greatly from a slightly more aggressive tyre.

Although remember that any bike, wearing any tyre, will feel unstable over sandy patches. That is because it is unstable, sand being a giving surface.

I always fit a Mitas e-07 to the rear wheel, and something like a Pirelli MT21 to the front. The cost versus front wear is acceptable.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 07:52:33 am by 2StrokeDan »
 

Offline skydiver

Re: Going off-road
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2020, 08:05:03 am »
I had a 2013 F800 for a few years and it is a lot more stable and enjoyable off road with more aggressive tyre
E-07 tyres will be much better off road and you can comfortably commute with them as well (they will last ave 10000km or more, if you not a hooligan)
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2020, 08:31:53 am »
Your rear is not that important, but the front benefits greatly from a slightly more aggressive tyre.

Although remember that any bike, wearing any tyre, will feel unstable over sandy patches. That is because it is unstable, sand being a giving surface.

I always fit a Mitas e-07 to the rear wheel, and something like a Pirelli MT21 to the front. The cost versus front wear is acceptable.
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Offline mox

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2020, 08:38:01 am »
What pressure were you running on the front?
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Offline bike bum

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2020, 08:40:52 am »
I very recently acquired a F800GS (2013 model). It still has brand new anakee tyres on. I went for a quick off-road (see dirt road) trip with my  brother-in-law over the weekend. I did notice that the bike handled well on the harder surfaces but felt (see inexperienced dirt rider) unstable on the more sandy patches. I kept my speed between 30 and 60 kph when I hit the sandy patches. I also disabled the ABS and Traction assist (I think that is what you call it).

My question is as follows (aside fromt he obvious need to go for a bit of training):

Would it be a good idea (yes, I know it will be expensive) to get a second set of rims that I can put knobbly tyres on and swop out the rims when we go riding off road. The off-road trips will be few and far between as I will be spending a lot more time on the tar road communting.
Rode a 800 for some time. 160k/km to be exact. The short answer is as said before. Yes. More aggressive tyres will make a difference.

I also upgraded my front suspension with progressive springs. This made it a much better bike. Did some extensive sand riding in Namibia and up north in Venda and it ate it for breakfast.

Some training wil obviously make a huge difference especially to your confidence - which is crucial for sand riding. Tyre pressure also. I took it down to 1.8 for normal dirt riding and as low as 1.2 - 1 for sand.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 08:50:31 am by bike bum »
 

Offline limacon

Re: Going off-road
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2020, 09:19:30 am »
I very recently acquired a F800GS (2013 model). It still has brand new anakee tyres on. I went for a quick off-road (see dirt road) trip with my  brother-in-law over the weekend. I did notice that the bike handled well on the harder surfaces but felt (see inexperienced dirt rider) unstable on the more sandy patches. I kept my speed between 30 and 60 kph when I hit the sandy patches. I also disabled the ABS and Traction assist (I think that is what you call it).

My question is as follows (aside fromt he obvious need to go for a bit of training):

Would it be a good idea (yes, I know it will be expensive) to get a second set of rims that I can put knobbly tyres on and swop out the rims when we go riding off road. The off-road trips will be few and far between as I will be spending a lot more time on the tar road communting.
Rode a 800 for some time. 160k/km to be exact. The short answer is as said before. Yes. More aggressive tyres will make a difference.

I also upgraded my front suspension with progressive springs. This made it a much better bike. Did some extensive sand riding in Namibia and up north in Venda and it ate it for breakfast.

Some training wil obviously make a huge difference especially to your confidence - which is crucial for sand riding. Tyre pressure also. I took it down to 1.8 for normal dirt riding and as low as 1.2 - 1 for sand.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I agree with the training part - before you spend money on anything get some adv bike rider training.  Was the best thing I could've done for my riding experience.
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Offline valkerieforever

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2020, 09:50:57 am »
What pressure were you running on the front?

I think that was the other mistake, the tyres were at road pressure. (2 bar?)
 

Offline valkerieforever

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2020, 09:53:30 am »
I very recently acquired a F800GS (2013 model). It still has brand new anakee tyres on. I went for a quick off-road (see dirt road) trip with my  brother-in-law over the weekend. I did notice that the bike handled well on the harder surfaces but felt (see inexperienced dirt rider) unstable on the more sandy patches. I kept my speed between 30 and 60 kph when I hit the sandy patches. I also disabled the ABS and Traction assist (I think that is what you call it).

My question is as follows (aside fromt he obvious need to go for a bit of training):

Would it be a good idea (yes, I know it will be expensive) to get a second set of rims that I can put knobbly tyres on and swop out the rims when we go riding off road. The off-road trips will be few and far between as I will be spending a lot more time on the tar road communting.
Rode a 800 for some time. 160k/km to be exact. The short answer is as said before. Yes. More aggressive tyres will make a difference.

I also upgraded my front suspension with progressive springs. This made it a much better bike. Did some extensive sand riding in Namibia and up north in Venda and it ate it for breakfast.

Some training wil obviously make a huge difference especially to your confidence - which is crucial for sand riding. Tyre pressure also. I took it down to 1.8 for normal dirt riding and as low as 1.2 - 1 for sand.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I agree with the training part - before you spend money on anything get some adv bike rider training.  Was the best thing I could've done for my riding experience.

Thanks. I will get onto the training part ASAP. I will get to ADA, they are closest to me.
 

Offline Ruans

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2020, 10:06:39 am »
I have a F800 GSA with the same rubber on.
Last week I did my first longer dirt road and found a bit of a wiggle on the sandy bits.

Was not scary but, was wondering more "rough rider" rubber will be better on the dirt. You know for "my riding pleasure" :lol8:.

As soon as I have chewed through this set, I will replace with dirt roads in mind and try it again to compare.
 
 

Offline Fuzzy Muzzy

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2020, 10:21:39 am »
If you going offroad few and far between just get a 70/30 tyre and be done with it. Ask your local dealer to show you a 70/30 tyre.

With regards to the training .. if you are riding with other riders who have some skills you will pick up the same skills, so depending on weather you learn the right skills or not will depend on who you ride with. Sometimes unlearning a bad technique takes longer than just learning it correctly .. if you can afford to go on a course it will benefit you to the point where tyres wont make that much of a difference unless you in beast mode or you trying to get through a rain forest.
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Offline BuRP

Re: Going off-road
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2020, 11:22:33 am »
I very recently acquired a F800GS (2013 model). It still has brand new anakee tyres on. I went My question is as follows (aside fromt he obvious need to go for a bit of training):

Would it be a good idea .....

Sorry, am giggling here..... NO!
Learn to ride, sorry - but "offroad" means less stable planted feel, of course (!) there is slip hence movement etc, and tyres actually are VERY overrated in this respect, they ALL will squirm.
Sure, some do more, some do less, but this is nitpicking..... learn to get used to it!

Sure, if you think you yourself would feel better with some lessons under your belt then do that, but I think that 'just doing it' will teach you quickly that it all aint that bad, you didn't fall actually, and hey, if you open up a bit then all's better/smoother etc >>> you are learning!
Stay away from deep sand for now, ditto loose rock gardens, and you'll get the hang of it in a jiffy!
Better tyres will make a diff yeah, but very little, and for an off-novice (sorry...) it ain't worth the money/schlepp/cost/time/effort > learn it, get used to the "less planted" feel, and you'll learn that it will not wash but stay there sortof, you just have to put more input in!
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Offline BuRP

Re: Going off-road
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2020, 11:31:04 am »
What pressure were you running on the front?

Oh, I read the various responses only now .... NEVER deflate your tyres in the beginning ! ! ! ! !
Especially not the front (narrower, and it takes the brunt of the impacts!) as this is asking for punctures and/or dented rims, and such can be permanently offputting for someone starting out to go off or perhaps remote-off!
Keep the tyres hard - and yes, of course that means less grip: which is GOOD for you, remember, you're learning?
Easier does it then, hammering wildly comes later - ditto deflating your tyres when you need(!) the little-extra grip which deflating tyres provides!
Don't deflate: very little extra grip but way more punctures!
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Offline mox

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2020, 12:30:35 pm »
What pressure were you running on the front?

Oh, I read the various responses only now .... NEVER deflate your tyres in the beginning ! ! ! ! !
Especially not the front (narrower, and it takes the brunt of the impacts!) as this is asking for punctures and/or dented rims, and such can be permanently offputting for someone starting out to go off or perhaps remote-off!
Keep the tyres hard - and yes, of course that means less grip: which is GOOD for you, remember, you're learning?
Easier does it then, hammering wildly comes later - ditto deflating your tyres when you need(!) the little-extra grip which deflating tyres provides!
Don't deflate: very little extra grip but way more punctures!

My reason for asking is in the long long time ago story when I began someone suggested deflation  :laughing4: what a kak story, it made things feel worse for me.

So yes, keep proper pressure  :thumleft:

As some said, learn to ride the stuff it gets easier and more often than not its your mind playing tricks on you ( the bike and tyres are more than capable of handling the terrain) and you tense up making it feel worse than it is.
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Offline valkerieforever

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2020, 12:53:52 pm »
Thank you for the advice so far. I really appreciate it. I will admit I am wary of having a fall, due to my first fall just after I started riding in high school. It is true what you said about tensing up. I have to make a conscious effort to RELAX and TRUST the bike while I am off a hard surface.
 

Offline BuRP

Re: Going off-road
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2020, 01:18:23 pm »
I have to make a conscious effort to RELAX and TRUST the bike while I am off a hard surface.....

.... and verymuchonpurpose (like in forceyourself!) NOT poerpoer or goveryslow but goalittlefaster/openupmore - and note that this is not hammering or racing or recklessriding, just a little faster pace than what most (you?) will be inclined to do.
Got a friend who hates the front moving a little hence he slows down to snailpace .... and then things get worse, paddapote come out and 'fun' is nowhere to be found: open up more, increase your speed (a LITTLE!) and things fall into place - and yeah, you'll find you have to actively steer the whole time, you actually may work a bit at times.
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Offline jaybiker

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2020, 01:30:27 pm »
If my 2cents is worth 2c. it is this. Very low tyre pressures are for very light bikes on slow (1st/2nd. gear) going.

Anything from 60 - 200 kmh where there is likely to be rocks and ruts, on a 200kg machine with 1,2 bar in your tyres is asking for kak.

Compromise, sure maybe deflate a little bit if you must, but then be aware of the terrain and ride accordingly.  :-\
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Offline Straddle

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Re: Going off-road
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2020, 07:02:26 pm »
If my 2cents is worth 2c. it is this. Very low tyre pressures are for very light bikes on slow (1st/2nd. gear) going.

Anything from 60 - 200 kmh where there is likely to be rocks and ruts, on a 200kg machine with 1,2 bar in your tyres is asking for kak.

Compromise, sure maybe deflate a little bit if you must, but then be aware of the terrain and ride accordingly.  :-\
Agree, less pressure more punctures, i never deflate tyres to less than 2,1 bar, only thing to conquer sand is momentum
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Offline JacoM

Re: Going off-road
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2020, 11:35:07 am »
My 2 c's ;)
I do take the tire pressure down to 1.8bar, never less. It just makes the traction better.
From your responses, I suggest you do an introductory course ASAP.
You will learn things in a morning session that will put you at ease on gravel and it will save big pain and cost later on...
They typically make you aware of slow speed bike control, the same which is applicable to high speed bike control....
Things you then can practice in your own back yard..
In my view a 50/50 tire exists only in the eye of a sales man.. Get a 70/30 for the front, and what ever on the rear that you fancy.
I have been using a knobbly (TKC 80) at the front for many years (actually can not remember how long it is  ;) and ride more tar than dirt. It gives good performance on both surfaces, but gives proper traction on gravel for when you need it.
 

Offline Herkules

Re: Going off-road
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2020, 11:55:33 am »
 :sip: In my opinion, you probably need some training, one of the things they will tell you is to relax your arms between your wrist and shoulder, open up slightly to keep a positive power/push on your rear. You will also learn to move your body slightly to lighten the front. The moment you close your throttle you will probably go down.  If I have to stop in sand I use my rear brake first before I close the throttle. The rear wheel will pull you straight when you close the throttle. That's what works for me.
Some good tyre  advice was given. Slap armpies is belangrik.  :3some: