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Author Topic: Pushing left to turn right?  (Read 802 times)

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2020, 01:49:31 pm »
I have never understood this push handlebars theory? Guess that's why I am such a crappy rider!! ;D

Chris, with the motorcycle upright, you have to turn left, and when the bike actually "falls over" to the right, you steer into the turn to keep the bike upright.

On a motorcycle, any turn is impossible unless you first and momentarily turn the opposite way.

But it is done without thinking about it, and you learn this from your bicycle days.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2020, 01:51:02 pm »
And then try riding a sidecar. Everything you thought you had learned goes for a ball of shit  :imaposer:

Good example Gerrard, with a sidecar everything turns upside down, and with the Visarende, sometimes practically. :pot:

Or no, it was Woody that landed in the bush, not so?
 

Offline Gérrard

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2020, 01:55:26 pm »
And then try riding a sidecar. Everything you thought you had learned goes for a ball of shit  :imaposer:

Good example Gerrard, with a sidecar everything turns upside down, and with the Visarende, sometimes practically. :pot:

Or no, it was Woody that landed in the bush, not so?

That was Woody, when he thought left was right but it was wrong and when he pushed right it was right but he should have gone left. Or something  :lol8:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2020, 01:58:49 pm »
And then try riding a sidecar. Everything you thought you had learned goes for a ball of shit  :imaposer:

Good example Gerrard, with a sidecar everything turns upside down, and with the Visarende, sometimes practically. :pot:

Or no, it was Woody that landed in the bush, not so?

That was Woody, when he thought left was right but it was wrong and when he pushed right it was right but he should have gone left. Or something  :lol8:

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: Riversdal Woody, but it sounds more like Woody Allen.
 

Online Spectaitor

Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2020, 02:28:20 pm »
Counter steering is an added step, it does not replace turning your wheel towards the direction you are going.
You will still always point your front wheel in the direction you are going.

In a parking lot doing a U-turn you would even use counter-steering the tiniest bit
to get the bike into a comfortable lean unless you were paddling with your feet.

Imagine approaching a green robot at speed and wanting to turn left, you will first countersteer to get
your bike into a suitable lean (by using your front wheel's rake to set the contact points of camber) so that
the straight moving force is directed into the suspension straight down where it can push against the ground
and then turn your bars to the left to still point your wheel in the right direction.
So much to do, so little time. Better get going then!
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2020, 04:14:33 pm »
Counter steering is an added step, it does not replace turning your wheel towards the direction you are going.
You will still always point your front wheel in the direction you are going.

In a parking lot doing a U-turn you would even use counter-steering the tiniest bit
to get the bike into a comfortable lean unless you were paddling with your feet.

Imagine approaching a green robot at speed and wanting to turn left, you will first countersteer to get
your bike into a suitable lean (by using your front wheel's rake to set the contact points of camber) so that
the straight moving force is directed into the suspension straight down where it can push against the ground
and then turn your bars to the left to still point your wheel in the right direction.

Absolutely, counter-steering is only to get the bike into a lean, which is needed for a two wheeler to turn.
 

Offline Cracker

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2020, 04:20:11 pm »
I never knew how thick I was until I read this thread.

I struggle a bit with quantum mechanics but you lot take it to a whole new level.

No wonder Hawking had a 4-wheeler.
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Offline mox

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2020, 04:20:18 pm »
Pushing left to right right or right to left left is often whats needed to come or go .... or so she says  :biggrin:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2020, 04:27:56 pm »
I never knew how thick I was until I read this thread.

I struggle a bit with quantum mechanics but you lot take it to a whole new level.

No wonder Hawking had a 4-wheeler.

I cannot remember all that much of quantum mechanics anymore...... :pot:

Sorry, it's the Hi-Ace mechanics I have mostly forgotten.
 

Offline Tiger8

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2020, 04:29:20 pm »
The rate of turn is not at a fixed speed, there are factors such as: Front Wheel Size; Tyre width, Tyre pressure, Rake and Trail of the front forks, which all contribute to the rate of turn. An Adventure bike turns in more slowly than a Sport bike and differs to a cruiser.

When doing obstacle avoidance on tar, during a course many years ago, the effectiveness of the "Push to Turn" principle was demonstrated, pull to turn can be disastrous. To lean into a corner, you need to push on the handlebar slightly, as you force the wheel to run on a smaller circumference than the centre of the wheel, which initiates the turn.

This is an action we as riders are mostly not even aware of, but is part of our subconscious riding technique, often newer riders are surprised to learn that they are even doing it.  :thumleft:




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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2020, 05:07:14 pm »
We all do it unconsciously. We did it from the first time we rode a two wheeled bicycle.

Which proves that we don't know what the fuck we're doing or why we're doing it, but we do it anyway.

Bit like bureaucrats and politicians really. :deal:
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Offline BuRP

Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2020, 06:15:46 pm »
That is the same thing, going fast you push right to turn right. But right is right and not wrong.

Ya wel no ma fine, if you go left, what then?
You push left and you go left, which is right?

Plies edjukaat me, there can only be one right, right?  :P
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Offline BuRP

Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2020, 06:18:18 pm »
I never knew how thick I was until I read this thread.

Aww, that's unfair, I bet loadsa peeps have told you already!
But eh, you don't listen do you?  :lol8:
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Offline Jughead

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2020, 06:39:44 pm »
16 km/h
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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2020, 07:09:05 pm »
16 km/h

Because our Lord said, Let it be 10mph.  :peepwall:
When is this "Old enough to know better" supposed to kick in?
 

Offline Colaco

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2020, 07:13:21 pm »
As soon as your feet leave the ground.
 

Offline Dux

Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2020, 07:56:10 pm »
It varies from bike to bike but generally below about 25 to 40 kmh is pro steer , then counter steering kicks in  and then oddly enough at very high speeds of about 400 plus it reverts back to pro steer
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2020, 08:12:49 pm »
Regardless the speed, on a motorcycle it is always needed to countersteer into turns, as it is the only way to steer a vehicle with 2 wheels inline.

If you try and "pro-steer", the motorcycle will always fall over to the other side. It's just how two-wheelers work.
 

Offline Gérrard

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2020, 08:13:27 pm »
What if you stand up and the bike's CoG changes ?
...dis nooit te laat om n happy childhood te he nie !

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Pushing left to right right?
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2020, 09:01:09 pm »
What if you stand up and the bike's CoG changes ?

This is a grey area....... :thumleft: