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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1200 on: January 16, 2021, 09:54:35 am »
I canít see how Barreda still deserves a ride at Honda after this year.

I agree to some point !  But if he missed the refeuling due to concusion as claimed he tried realy hard for Honda!

I call BS - that was a typical BamBam brain fart.
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Offline edgy

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1201 on: January 16, 2021, 10:44:45 am »
As a matter of interest a bunch of us were discussing the fact that these 450ís in general are incredibly tough and reliable, over the last two or three Dakarís how many actual terminal engine or mechanical failures have there been?
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Offline Serf

Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1202 on: January 16, 2021, 11:29:27 am »
I canít see how Barreda still deserves a ride at Honda after this year.

I agree to some point !  But if he missed the refeuling due to concusion as claimed he tried realy hard for Honda!

I call BS - that was a typical BamBam brain fart.
Agree, and he does not deserve a factory sponsored bike.

He always have an excuse when something goes wrong, while other riders will make a plan and sort it out. Sorry, but i don't like him at all. Honda can even give James Alexander a spot - he will push the bike if he has to.

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Offline sidetrack

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1203 on: January 16, 2021, 11:30:13 am »
The question must be asked is there something inherently wrong with the Yamaha motors ? Even if they were pretty stock off the floor surely 4 failures is not normal. I hope Yamaha Japan were watching and pulls finger.
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1204 on: January 16, 2021, 11:44:17 am »
I mean they changed Van Beverenís engine on the 2nd last day and even that one blew up
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Offline Kamanya

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1205 on: January 16, 2021, 03:07:42 pm »
I canít see how Barreda still deserves a ride at Honda after this year.

I agree to some point !  But if he missed the refeuling due to concusion as claimed he tried realy hard for Honda!

I call BS - that was a typical BamBam brain fart.

I disagree.

The clip of him being interviewed where he stopped isn't one where he portrays embarrassment, resentment or even anger. He seems completely confused. He's standing there not really understanding what happened.

I was also of the same opinion before I saw that. I have more compassion for him. Post concussion confusion is a thing. He's lucky that he only ran out of fuel and didn't have a serious or life threatening crash.
 
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1206 on: January 16, 2021, 03:33:34 pm »
I canít see how Barreda still deserves a ride at Honda after this year.

I agree to some point !  But if he missed the refeuling due to concusion as claimed he tried realy hard for Honda!

I call BS - that was a typical BamBam brain fart.

I disagree.

The clip of him being interviewed where he stopped isn't one where he portrays embarrassment, resentment or even anger. He seems completely confused. He's standing there not really understanding what happened.

I was also of the same opinion before I saw that. I have more compassion for him. Post concussion confusion is a thing. He's lucky that he only ran out of fuel and didn't have a serious or life threatening crash.

I believe you are right.
 

Offline Serf

Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1207 on: January 16, 2021, 04:19:38 pm »
I canít see how Barreda still deserves a ride at Honda after this year.

I agree to some point !  But if he missed the refeuling due to concusion as claimed he tried realy hard for Honda!

I call BS - that was a typical BamBam brain fart.

I disagree.

The clip of him being interviewed where he stopped isn't one where he portrays embarrassment, resentment or even anger. He seems completely confused. He's standing there not really understanding what happened.

I was also of the same opinion before I saw that. I have more compassion for him. Post concussion confusion is a thing. He's lucky that he only ran out of fuel and didn't have a serious or life threatening crash.

I believe you are right.
Unfortunately his previous actions and behaviour in the Dakar make people now question his story

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Offline Kamanya

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1208 on: January 16, 2021, 05:01:52 pm »
I canít see how Barreda still deserves a ride at Honda after this year.

I agree to some point !  But if he missed the refeuling due to concusion as claimed he tried realy hard for Honda!

I call BS - that was a typical BamBam brain fart.

I disagree.

The clip of him being interviewed where he stopped isn't one where he portrays embarrassment, resentment or even anger. He seems completely confused. He's standing there not really understanding what happened.

I was also of the same opinion before I saw that. I have more compassion for him. Post concussion confusion is a thing. He's lucky that he only ran out of fuel and didn't have a serious or life threatening crash.

I believe you are right.
Unfortunately his previous actions and behaviour in the Dakar make people now question his story

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My opinion;

Barreda rides with his heart. He's not so much a scientist. It's undeniable that he's a fabulously quick rally rider who can mix it with the best. I believe his heart has got the better of him where he's failed.

Giniel, although a winner of one Dakar has also consistently had bad luck. I believe he is the complete opposite, gifted driver, but maybe too scientific and cautious.

I think we sitting here behind our keyboards obviously are welcome to our opinions, it is after all our emotional reaction to all that goes on that keeps us engaged, however, I do think its easy to criticise with so little knowledge of actually what is going on.
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Offline BlueBull2007

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1209 on: January 16, 2021, 07:02:22 pm »
Great thread guys thanks for all the posts photos vids & info.

I caught up on the drama today. What race.

Crazy the number of crashes so high up in the field in the last few days. The race has definitely not slowed down.

Sad for Ross, but he had proved himself very well. I would be very surprised if KTM does not sign him. If that happens then I think HOnda will take him. I think its pipe dream to think Yamaha will build a factory bike. We were saying the same thing too about Honda over a decade ago so maybe by saying it they will notice.... ;D

I rode a WR on quite a few rallies, and have seen my fair share of engine failures, some of them being a result of my own stupidy  ::) but most not. Also seen a shit load of electrical issues, even after putting in bigger stators rewiring the harnessing etc etc. The chain sliders have to be changed every 2-3 days because of the smaller gearing etc.

Looking at Ross's crash I would not be surprised if that chain jamming hurt the engine and the factory team decided to keep going with the same engine that night. Crazy, IMO - he could have finished even though he would not have made the podium with the engine change penalty.

Anyhoo, great following thanks again everyone :thumleft: , and CONGRATULATIONS TO JAMES!! :hello2:
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Offline gmac

Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1210 on: January 17, 2021, 07:14:00 am »
I canít see how Barreda still deserves a ride at Honda after this year.

I agree to some point !  But if he missed the refeuling due to concusion as claimed he tried realy hard for Honda!

I call BS - that was a typical BamBam brain fart.

I disagree.

The clip of him being interviewed where he stopped isn't one where he portrays embarrassment, resentment or even anger. He seems completely confused. He's standing there not really understanding what happened.

I was also of the same opinion before I saw that. I have more compassion for him. Post concussion confusion is a thing. He's lucky that he only ran out of fuel and didn't have a serious or life threatening crash.
Sorry to labour this point but I agree with you he looked totally confused when they interviewed him where he stopped - that was not a normal reaction if your brain was working properly. Looked like a deer in headlights


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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1211 on: January 17, 2021, 12:34:41 pm »
If you speak/understand Dutch and want to relive the last 6 days of the Dakar - https://www.rtlxl.nl/programma/rtl-gp-dakar/8e9c10c4-557c-3efa-a740-117e2c036f3f

You will need a VPN and connect that to the Netherlands.  I should have looked at www.rtl.nl at the start of the race as they have quiet a decent daily program which you can watch for free.  Maybe this is useful for someone for 2022 more than now.
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Offline Rake en die Ondier(tjie).

Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1212 on: January 18, 2021, 08:56:26 pm »
Probably too late to chime in now, but my worthless observations.

1. Barreda let me down once again, but I will continue to root for him, hoping he can avoid any weird (self induced..?) ) disasters next year. I remember when he first blitzed the Dakar with his crazy speed and go-fast-now approach.. Man, the wheelbarrow loads of panties that got knotted on this forum, shouting at him to keep his front wheel on the ground... Geez, looking at the riding styles these days, I cannot imagine drastic wear on front tires. Yeah, I'd say he pioneered a new approach to the Dakar.

 2. Interesting the discussion about engine size. I'd frame the question this way: If all engine restrictions were removed from the manufacturers, what size engine would they field? I'd wager that the current 450's will beat a 650 bike due to lighter weight and improved agility over technical terrain. Are there enough straight sections on "safe" terrain where top speed is an overall advantage? Perhaps the 450 really is the sweet spot. I'd think it is pretty close.

3. Winning is still very much a matter of consistency and not having a major setback. The race is not won by a brilliant performance in certain days, but rather lost by riders who blow it or experience bad luck. This year it could have been won by any number of guys. Price, Bravic, in fact the entire Honda team, Branch, Sunderland who chilled it out till well into the second week.. Yes, the jo-jo effect was new this year, but it was a pretty open race throughout.   

4. Same observation with the cars re engine sizes and configuration. It is such cock-up to have all these regulations to align 4x4 and buggy performance. I'm 100% sure Al-Attiya would have won all the Dakars while with Toyota had he not been in a Toyota. And it has nothing to do with the car, but with the regulations imposed to limit Toyota/4x4's. Dakar is such a varied and hellishly demanding event, unlike F1/MotoGP which is largely driven by horsepower, I say have it more unregulated and let the race itself level things out. Design the course so that top end speed is NOT a factor. Or impose a speed limit and nothing else. Had Toyota not been in the game of selling 4x4's, they'd also be building buggies as it is clearly the superior platform. So ja, I think the limitations are way too severe on Toyota, and if nothing else they should allow the same regulations to negate the disproportionate amount of flats the 4x4's experience and the time it takes them to change. Because currently that is what decides the rally: Tyre management.

Either way, was pretty great race, super stoked for Honda and Argentina, solid by Toyota. Next year clean podium sweep by Honda.
 

Offline geopat

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1213 on: January 19, 2021, 06:49:55 am »
Probably too late to chime in now, but my worthless observations.

1. Barreda let me down once again, but I will continue to root for him, hoping he can avoid any weird (self induced..?) ) disasters next year. I remember when he first blitzed the Dakar with his crazy speed and go-fast-now approach.. Man, the wheelbarrow loads of panties that got knotted on this forum, shouting at him to keep his front wheel on the ground... Geez, looking at the riding styles these days, I cannot imagine drastic wear on front tires. Yeah, I'd say he pioneered a new approach to the Dakar.

 2. Interesting the discussion about engine size. I'd frame the question this way: If all engine restrictions were removed from the manufacturers, what size engine would they field? I'd wager that the current 450's will beat a 650 bike due to lighter weight and improved agility over technical terrain. Are there enough straight sections on "safe" terrain where top speed is an overall advantage? Perhaps the 450 really is the sweet spot. I'd think it is pretty close.

3. Winning is still very much a matter of consistency and not having a major setback. The race is not won by a brilliant performance in certain days, but rather lost by riders who blow it or experience bad luck. This year it could have been won by any number of guys. Price, Bravic, in fact the entire Honda team, Branch, Sunderland who chilled it out till well into the second week.. Yes, the jo-jo effect was new this year, but it was a pretty open race throughout.   

4. Same observation with the cars re engine sizes and configuration. It is such cock-up to have all these regulations to align 4x4 and buggy performance. I'm 100% sure Al-Attiya would have won all the Dakars while with Toyota had he not been in a Toyota. And it has nothing to do with the car, but with the regulations imposed to limit Toyota/4x4's. Dakar is such a varied and hellishly demanding event, unlike F1/MotoGP which is largely driven by horsepower, I say have it more unregulated and let the race itself level things out. Design the course so that top end speed is NOT a factor. Or impose a speed limit and nothing else. Had Toyota not been in the game of selling 4x4's, they'd also be building buggies as it is clearly the superior platform. So ja, I think the limitations are way too severe on Toyota, and if nothing else they should allow the same regulations to negate the disproportionate amount of flats the 4x4's experience and the time it takes them to change. Because currently that is what decides the rally: Tyre management.

Either way, was pretty great race, super stoked for Honda and Argentina, solid by Toyota. Next year clean podium sweep by Honda.

Im a bit of a noob when it comes to cars what regulations restrict the toyotas? I thought it was pretty much open
 

Offline Rough Rider

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1214 on: January 19, 2021, 07:53:58 am »
Probably too late to chime in now, but my worthless observations.

1. Barreda let me down once again, but I will continue to root for him, hoping he can avoid any weird (self induced..?) ) disasters next year. I remember when he first blitzed the Dakar with his crazy speed and go-fast-now approach.. Man, the wheelbarrow loads of panties that got knotted on this forum, shouting at him to keep his front wheel on the ground... Geez, looking at the riding styles these days, I cannot imagine drastic wear on front tires. Yeah, I'd say he pioneered a new approach to the Dakar.

 2. Interesting the discussion about engine size. I'd frame the question this way: If all engine restrictions were removed from the manufacturers, what size engine would they field? I'd wager that the current 450's will beat a 650 bike due to lighter weight and improved agility over technical terrain. Are there enough straight sections on "safe" terrain where top speed is an overall advantage? Perhaps the 450 really is the sweet spot. I'd think it is pretty close.

3. Winning is still very much a matter of consistency and not having a major setback. The race is not won by a brilliant performance in certain days, but rather lost by riders who blow it or experience bad luck. This year it could have been won by any number of guys. Price, Bravic, in fact the entire Honda team, Branch, Sunderland who chilled it out till well into the second week.. Yes, the jo-jo effect was new this year, but it was a pretty open race throughout.   

4. Same observation with the cars re engine sizes and configuration. It is such cock-up to have all these regulations to align 4x4 and buggy performance. I'm 100% sure Al-Attiya would have won all the Dakars while with Toyota had he not been in a Toyota. And it has nothing to do with the car, but with the regulations imposed to limit Toyota/4x4's. Dakar is such a varied and hellishly demanding event, unlike F1/MotoGP which is largely driven by horsepower, I say have it more unregulated and let the race itself level things out. Design the course so that top end speed is NOT a factor. Or impose a speed limit and nothing else. Had Toyota not been in the game of selling 4x4's, they'd also be building buggies as it is clearly the superior platform. So ja, I think the limitations are way too severe on Toyota, and if nothing else they should allow the same regulations to negate the disproportionate amount of flats the 4x4's experience and the time it takes them to change. Because currently that is what decides the rally: Tyre management.

Either way, was pretty great race, super stoked for Honda and Argentina, solid by Toyota. Next year clean podium sweep by Honda.

I think if engine size restrictions were dropped my bet would be that the manufacturers would increase the capacity back to to 600 -700 cc as they can run these engine at a lower load for higher durability. 
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Offline Rake en die Ondier(tjie).

Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1215 on: January 19, 2021, 08:39:59 am »
Probably too late to chime in now, but my worthless observations.

1. Barreda let me down once again, but I will continue to root for him, hoping he can avoid any weird (self induced..?) ) disasters next year. I remember when he first blitzed the Dakar with his crazy speed and go-fast-now approach.. Man, the wheelbarrow loads of panties that got knotted on this forum, shouting at him to keep his front wheel on the ground... Geez, looking at the riding styles these days, I cannot imagine drastic wear on front tires. Yeah, I'd say he pioneered a new approach to the Dakar.

 2. Interesting the discussion about engine size. I'd frame the question this way: If all engine restrictions were removed from the manufacturers, what size engine would they field? I'd wager that the current 450's will beat a 650 bike due to lighter weight and improved agility over technical terrain. Are there enough straight sections on "safe" terrain where top speed is an overall advantage? Perhaps the 450 really is the sweet spot. I'd think it is pretty close.

3. Winning is still very much a matter of consistency and not having a major setback. The race is not won by a brilliant performance in certain days, but rather lost by riders who blow it or experience bad luck. This year it could have been won by any number of guys. Price, Bravic, in fact the entire Honda team, Branch, Sunderland who chilled it out till well into the second week.. Yes, the jo-jo effect was new this year, but it was a pretty open race throughout.   

4. Same observation with the cars re engine sizes and configuration. It is such cock-up to have all these regulations to align 4x4 and buggy performance. I'm 100% sure Al-Attiya would have won all the Dakars while with Toyota had he not been in a Toyota. And it has nothing to do with the car, but with the regulations imposed to limit Toyota/4x4's. Dakar is such a varied and hellishly demanding event, unlike F1/MotoGP which is largely driven by horsepower, I say have it more unregulated and let the race itself level things out. Design the course so that top end speed is NOT a factor. Or impose a speed limit and nothing else. Had Toyota not been in the game of selling 4x4's, they'd also be building buggies as it is clearly the superior platform. So ja, I think the limitations are way too severe on Toyota, and if nothing else they should allow the same regulations to negate the disproportionate amount of flats the 4x4's experience and the time it takes them to change. Because currently that is what decides the rally: Tyre management.

Either way, was pretty great race, super stoked for Honda and Argentina, solid by Toyota. Next year clean podium sweep by Honda.
Im a bit of a noob when it comes to cars what regulations restrict the toyotas? I thought it was pretty much open


These were the limitations that I was aware off from SA days:

Wheel size limits, suspension travel limits, and crucially, the buggies can do on-the-fly air pressure adjustments on the tires, whereas 4x4 have to stop and inflate/deflate. Hence they have to commit to one pressure setting per stage. All these factors greatly impact puncture prone-ness.

There was also an air inlet size restriction to limit power that differs between the platforms. That is why Glenn Hall had to push so hard for speed limit of 180km/h on the buggies this year. Not sure if it had much affect overall directly, but indirectly it plays a role from a power:weight aspect.   
 

Offline Rake en die Ondier(tjie).

Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1216 on: January 19, 2021, 08:43:46 am »
Probably too late to chime in now, but my worthless observations.

1. Barreda let me down once again, but I will continue to root for him, hoping he can avoid any weird (self induced..?) ) disasters next year. I remember when he first blitzed the Dakar with his crazy speed and go-fast-now approach.. Man, the wheelbarrow loads of panties that got knotted on this forum, shouting at him to keep his front wheel on the ground... Geez, looking at the riding styles these days, I cannot imagine drastic wear on front tires. Yeah, I'd say he pioneered a new approach to the Dakar.

 2. Interesting the discussion about engine size. I'd frame the question this way: If all engine restrictions were removed from the manufacturers, what size engine would they field? I'd wager that the current 450's will beat a 650 bike due to lighter weight and improved agility over technical terrain. Are there enough straight sections on "safe" terrain where top speed is an overall advantage? Perhaps the 450 really is the sweet spot. I'd think it is pretty close.

3. Winning is still very much a matter of consistency and not having a major setback. The race is not won by a brilliant performance in certain days, but rather lost by riders who blow it or experience bad luck. This year it could have been won by any number of guys. Price, Bravic, in fact the entire Honda team, Branch, Sunderland who chilled it out till well into the second week.. Yes, the jo-jo effect was new this year, but it was a pretty open race throughout.   

4. Same observation with the cars re engine sizes and configuration. It is such cock-up to have all these regulations to align 4x4 and buggy performance. I'm 100% sure Al-Attiya would have won all the Dakars while with Toyota had he not been in a Toyota. And it has nothing to do with the car, but with the regulations imposed to limit Toyota/4x4's. Dakar is such a varied and hellishly demanding event, unlike F1/MotoGP which is largely driven by horsepower, I say have it more unregulated and let the race itself level things out. Design the course so that top end speed is NOT a factor. Or impose a speed limit and nothing else. Had Toyota not been in the game of selling 4x4's, they'd also be building buggies as it is clearly the superior platform. So ja, I think the limitations are way too severe on Toyota, and if nothing else they should allow the same regulations to negate the disproportionate amount of flats the 4x4's experience and the time it takes them to change. Because currently that is what decides the rally: Tyre management.

Either way, was pretty great race, super stoked for Honda and Argentina, solid by Toyota. Next year clean podium sweep by Honda.

I think if engine size restrictions were dropped my bet would be that the manufacturers would increase the capacity back to to 600 -700 cc as they can run these engine at a lower load for higher durability.

Apart from Yamaha, the rest of the field seems to have reliability dailed in. The one aspect I didn't see since the rally moved to SA, do they still have these crazy long liasons? Perhaps that helped where they saved 1000's of kms not trekking cross country.
 

Offline Tman21

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1217 on: January 19, 2021, 08:52:27 am »
Every day was around the 800km mark in total so still did around 10K km on a single motor.

Ive owned sherco's, the earlier models had their fair share of gremlins especially in the electronics dept but Sherco sent 3 bikes and all 3 bikes finished well.

I dont think any 450MX bike of the shelf will last 10K km at 10K + RPM. . . .  Yamaha needs to make some drastic changes to that motor.
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Offline Rough Rider

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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1218 on: January 19, 2021, 10:46:11 am »
If they went back to 600 - 700cc the engines would be much cheaper to produce for the same reliability.
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Re: DAKAR 2021
« Reply #1219 on: January 19, 2021, 11:50:47 am »
Even if given the choice I cant see manufacturers (apart from Yamaha) opting to increase capacity. . . .  Maybe 498/500 at most but if you increase the engine capacity, with the extra power potential comes so much of unwanted inertia that the riders will not appreciate.
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