DAKAR 2021

[BiG DoM]

Has anyone seen the swingarm on the Yamaha Rallye bike? If its the same as the YZ / WR that we see on the production bikes then they've known about these tabs breaking (If thats what happened to Ross) off for a long time and should have bloody well sorted that out by now.

I agree, thought the same thing. This is one of the first things one does to a YZ/WR used for enduro - weld and reinforce the chain guide bracket tabs that are a known weakness. I really do hope this was not the failure in the Marathon stage - it would be an unforgivable rooky mechanic and race manager prep error Here is a photo of one of the rally bikes and sure looks like a stock standard unmodded swingarm.     And a pic of what a failure looks like - this is the larger bracket held by two small strip welds that has broken (the smaller tab bracket is even weaker and note the sloppy welds).

[Welsh]

WP390 one more to go then to ASS, I guess it is dark there already. 

[Welsh]

Looks like James went the wrong way turned around, another half hour gone.

[Welsh]

He seems to be making progress hopefully on the right track. 

[BiG DoM]

I will just leave this here. In memoriam - a year today.

[Welsh]

And James Alexander makes PK425, stone last competitor two hours behind the guy in front of him, but still going, just needs to get to the ASS, eat service the bike and sleep a few hours. 

[2StrokeDan]

As long as Yamaha keeps competing against KTM's RallyRR's and Honda's HRC Rally bikes on showroom stock customer bikes, converted for Dakar, they are going to struggle.

Yamaha racing division in Japan needs to come to the party from next year.

The Dakar has moved on from the days you could slap a bigger tank on a XT500 and win the Dakar.

[Welsh]

I think a data issue, James timing not shown at the last WP and seems to be stationary on maps, hope a data  issue.

[Welsh]

James is still rolling, we can start the slow hand clap, maybe 5km's out of ASS stone last (by a margin) but rolling. 

[Serf]

Give him a big hand. He is really making sure he gets value for money from this dakar

Sent from my SM-A315F using Tapatalk

[XT JOE]

I think a data issue, James timing not shown at the last WP and seems to be stationary on maps, hope a data  issue.

You must be James's fan club press manager   JA is a absolute champ
See on the Sa dakar site his about 10 km out now at 21h15 our time

[Welsh]

He seems to be in ASS but the timing is out. 

[XT JOE]

...
No, of course not, racers are animals by nature but they're getting penalized for exceeding max speed limits so there's an incentive to keep it in the "safety" zone. How quickly they get to 180 will obviously change but that risk is lower, surely? There's only so much that can be extracted from a 450 motor and they're finding that limit now.

Why do you say that? Is there high attrition rate this year? Doesn't seem so at all - but admittedly I'm not up to speed. It seems only Yamaha's have problem - nothing dramatic (at least engine wise) with KTM, Husky's and Hondas. Maybe Yamaha should finally enter 21st century and put 6 speed gearbox on their 450, like all the competitors did...

From where I sit 450s are more than capable of all of this. It's been few years now when most of the teams run the whole event on one engine, while at the introduction of 450s most were changing engines half way through.

What makes you think that 450 engines are not up to this kind of job?

I agree. The current crop of 450 engines are amazing jewels of engineering. Last year not one KTM engine across the entire field failed. But here's a little bit of insight from a guy on ADVrider who has a Dakar under his belt and not only knows alot about the progression of the the Rally bike from the big litre class monsters to the 450's, but owns them too...

https://advrider.com/f/threads/2021-saudi-dakar-official-coverage-thread-covid-resistant-f5irehose.1481846/page-161#post-41579819

 I've been lucky to ride and/or own a few generations of RFR, including 660, 690, and the first two generations of 450. Since it is the rest day and we have nothing better to do, I'll share my thoughts.

The 660 is a rough and ready hot-rod. The motor is a bit brutal, the build quality is spotty to be generous, and they are an absolute blast to ride. It is loud, coarse, mean, and a bit unforgiving.

The 690 is a huge step forward in refinement. Lots of bespoke parts, much tidier packaging, and at least the first version (a 654cc displacement) was more mellow. That doesn't mean it was slow, just it didn't have a huge step in power as it came on song. The defining characteristic is stability- it will hold a line where an enduro bike is wagging all around.

The first gen 450 is a 690 with a smaller motor slotted in. I imagined that would be a step back, but that isn't actually my experience as a racebike. The bike clearly handles better as a 450, maybe a little because of weight but I think more because of rotating mass. It's more playful, and for me, it's easier to race. The 450 begs to be ridden aggressively where the 690 demands more respect. In terrain that is even semi-technical, I am willing to bet I'd go quicker on the 450 than I will on the same motorcycle with a 690 motor in it. Much like 250 MXers often set competitive 450 lap times with an open track, I think the smaller motor doesn't necessarily equate to less speed on course.

Given my experience riding the various bikes, I do not believe that the 450 rule really slowed people down much- to the contrary, I think it opened up a more aggressive riding style than was possible on the bigger bikes. When coupled with the change to South America, where the terrain was more technical as well... I think it is fair to say things moved along. I agree the move to 450 helped get more manufacturers and teams in the mix, which can only be a good thing.

Finally, I was lucky to buy Skyler's 2019 bike before this race to help him fund his adventure.

I don't have much time on it yet, but it immediately feels compact, tight, and fast. This one is an ex-factory bike, so it has 52mm forks and other goodies, and if you go faster than seems reasonable, it feels magical. On the other hand, if you slow down, it punishes you. I'm really excited to get to know it better.

I have no time on the latest generation RFR, but everyone says the motor is better up high (but worse down low), and that the chassis took another step toward being even more compact, again in response to more technical stages.

There will be a new RFR this year, in the "Up Front" show they avoid a clear shot but from the little you can see, it appears the new bike may not be a trellis frame. Will be interesting to see what they come out with.

I've spent time around the current Yamaha and Honda, but never ridden them. The Yamaha is very much an MX'er with a lot of energy put in to make it work as a rallybike. The Honda is MotoGP meets Dualsport- incredible attention to detail, and no expense spared. The kickstand is carbon fiber, for example. It looks amazing.


Finally, I do think there is a "spiritual" connection between dakar bikes and adventure bikes. They share exactly no parts, but some styling queues, and I think customers (including me!) feel like they might be Meoni when they slide their adventure bike up a dirt road. For a moment they are the star of the rally, even if there is no one there to witness it.

So, the bottom line is that the current 450's are durable, safer for the rider and very very quick.

The capacity limit was brought down to make them safer. The contemporary thinking being that speed was the danger. It wasn't, the irony was that the average speeds hardly moved even as the terrain became far more technical.  Making them smaller and lighter made them safer and easier to ride and ultimately quicker to ride. However it has to be said that todays 450's are pumping out 75hp, only 25hp less than Meoni's Daka winning 950cc KTM!

I would bet that no other capacity of bike in the current format of rally would be quicker. Those monsters of yesteryear are simply too heavy and even the 690 class are still just not nimble enough.

Interesting reading on engines and also sad a year down the line from Gonks passing  we also think of Elmer Symonds and Andy Caldecot and Meoni - real sad. Just uploading Meone's pic-remember how he could bitch and moan, what a character

[IanTheTooth]

I really liked Elmer Symons, always a nice guy to talk to. Shame about Toby Price, That's a rotator cuff which is never going to be the same again. Similar injury put Gary Lindsay aka Farmer brown into retirement at the peak of his game. 

[goonrider]

I really liked Elmer Symons, always a nice guy to talk to. Shame about Toby Price, That's a rotator cuff which is never going to be the same again. Similar injury put Gary Lindsay aka Farmer brown into retirement at the peak of his game.

I think TP will only be back in 4 wheels. He's been testing the waters in Aus. Pity, think he would have wanted to achieve one more 1st place and take KTM back to glory before he moves to cars. He was sure showing that determination with the torn tire and pushing so hard throughout.

[gmac]

At the risk of sounding like a millennial I am so over this Dakar now

Honda have done very well and unfortunately for KTM - apart from TP - the team personalities just seem a bit lackluster

[XT JOE]

b4 we/i start the duplications off my phone again herewith some nice stuff from the BAS team


https://www.facebook.com/379235369097810/posts/1391708777850459/

and a further set back for Yamaha

Van Beveren, The Last of the Yamaha-cans
Adrien Van Beveren is the only remaining factory Yamaha biker in the race after Ross Branch was knocked out by a mechanical yesterday. The Frenchman finished the stage fifth, which could have been his best performance so far, but he was handed down a 15-minute penalty after the special. He is now 11th overall at 1 h 17 back.

[Kamanya]

Cornejo's to lose.

The last two days won him the Dakar. He had ridden a very tactically smart race up until then. Then he must have put everything into these 2 days and risked his race to get him into a position where he now has an almost unassailable lead. He now only has to play the time honoured game of shadowing and matching his closest rivals, and unless he crashes or suffers a mechanical, he cannot be beat.

De Soutrait and Sunderland also seemed to have the same idea, just lady luck of Rally wasn't as kind to them. It's unfortunate for them, but Cornejo can rightfully claim to be an elite when it comes to putting navigation and riding together. Others might be faster, but I do think his navigation seems to be more accurate than most.

...but, this is rally and until you cross the finish line, nothing is assured.

[caconcepts]

What a dakar so far....Going out on a limb to predict Ross will win Dakar next year on a new and improved Yammie.

[Cdp13]

I really liked Elmer Symons, always a nice guy to talk to. Shame about Toby Price, That's a rotator cuff which is never going to be the same again. Similar injury put Gary Lindsay aka Farmer brown into retirement at the peak of his game.

I think TP will only be back in 4 wheels. He's been testing the waters in Aus. Pity, think he would have wanted to achieve one more 1st place and take KTM back to glory before he moves to cars. He was sure showing that determination with the torn tire and pushing so hard throughout.

Agree this might well be the last time we see TP on a bike at Dakar.

Does that open up a spot for Ross on the KTM team .....