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Offline Jacobsroodt

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Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« on: November 12, 2020, 04:29:37 pm »
Emission standards are getting tighter by the year, and motorcycle manufacturers are struggling more than the car industry to meet even leaner mixture requirements. Modern motorcycle engines have a very low rotating mass (flywheel weight), so making a bike easy, pleasant, and safe to ride at low speeds has become a major challenge for bike manufacturers.
 
There are different names for emission standards around the world, but today they are virtually the same, and most motorcycle manufacturers are now producing “world models”, i.e. the same setup for all markets. Just 5 or 6 years ago, you could still see “California models”, “Switzerland models”, “Australia models” etc. with a different software/hardware setup than other bikes, but the vast majority of all bikes today are “World models”.
 
The European EURO regulation is one of the leading emission standards, and the new EURO5 standard that is enforced from 2021 includes a demand for all sensors on the bike to be monitored. This is done partly to ensure that the fuel injection is in working order, but also to prevent the you from modifying your bike.
 
This means an end to all tuning devices that are modifying or disabling the Lambda sensor signal (e.g. Power Commander and the primitive Lambda sensor eliminators), because most fuel injection tuning products are disabling or modifying the Lambda sensor signal.
 
It was expected that IAT Sensor modifiers would slip under the radar, because they do not interfere with the operation of the Lambda sensor, but is forcing the ECU to make the air/fuel ratio slightly richer by changing the air temperature sensor signal. 
 
Unfortunately, the assumption was wrong, because from 2021, all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU, so any device modifying new 2021 and future bike models will activate a warning light or/and send the engine to limp mode.
 
If you install any of these devices on a 2021 motorcycle model, you would see a permanent warning flashing in the dashboard, and some models will go into “limp” mode with restricted power until the device is removed and sensor restored.

Models before 2021 will remain unaffected.
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Offline dirtWarp

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2020, 05:59:49 pm »
Vortex ECU then?

Pricey but perhaps you can carry it over to your next bike etc

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Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2020, 06:27:16 pm »
'all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU'

How will it know a wrong signal is wrong?
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Offline BLK

Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2020, 07:03:00 pm »
Its all a complete farce.Here in SA we still have coal powered power stations?What you gain by Euro5 is already lost just to SA.just look at Indias.Hong Kong etc daily emissions??Pathetic.
 

Offline Bundu

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2020, 07:19:47 pm »
'all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU'

How will it know a wrong signal is wrong?
exactly, but I've never really cared for fitting this stuff, except on my xt1200z, which was a boring bike - my KTM is purrfect as it came out of the box
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2020, 07:31:21 pm »
'all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU'

How will it know a wrong signal is wrong?

Every signal carries a "signature", and the ECU reads that. It will know.

This is the result of fancy electronics being taken too far.

 
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Offline MildlyWild

Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2020, 07:56:51 pm »
We should organise a mass protest ride from here to wherever they decided that nonsense  :ricky:  Now to organise that 40 days leave...

On the other hand the bikes I buy are usually more than 12 years old already, so this will only be a problem for me in 2033  :biggrin:
« Last Edit: November 12, 2020, 07:58:53 pm by MildlyWild »
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Offline DavidMorrisXp

Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2020, 08:06:56 pm »
When I de-catted a car of mine, "Cat foolers" were fitted, so maybe somebody will come up with a similar fooler?
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2020, 07:14:17 am »
When I de-catted a car of mine, "Cat foolers" were fitted, so maybe somebody will come up with a similar fooler?

It will be illegal to tamper with any new system, rendering current "cat-foolers" and future hi-tech ones out of the question.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2020, 07:16:58 am »
Its all a complete farce.Here in SA we still have coal powered power stations?What you gain by Euro5 is already lost just to SA.just look at Indias.Hong Kong etc daily emissions??Pathetic.

Even in Europe, it is a farce. The material inside the cat gets dug out of earth [visual polution] by huge and dirty machinery[air polution]
 
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Offline Roadhawg

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2020, 07:57:18 am »
'all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU'

How will it know a wrong signal is wrong?

Every signal carries a "signature", and the ECU reads that. It will know.

This is the result of fancy electronics being taken too far.

1s and 0s are still 1s and 0s.  Tuner's will just emulate the signals.      When people's businesses rely on something, they'll find a way, especially in a digital environment.
 
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Offline Petrilkop

Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2020, 08:57:25 am »
By the time I buy one of these bikes second hand (probably 10years old), I'll be 67, so not my problem.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2020, 06:24:29 pm »
'all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU'

How will it know a wrong signal is wrong?

Every signal carries a "signature", and the ECU reads that. It will know.

This is the result of fancy electronics being taken too far.

1s and 0s are still 1s and 0s.  Tuner's will just emulate the signals.      When people's businesses rely on something, they'll find a way, especially in a digital environment.

I agree, and in SA we'd get away with this tampering, but in Europe lawmakers will surely look at a "quicktest" system to ascertain whether you have tampered, and remove your vehicle from the road.

It starts with people liking shit like ABS on bikes, then ABS becomes compulsory and before you know, we have no choice.

One of the plus points on the new Yamaha T7 mentioned multiple times, is it's simplicity.
 

Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2020, 08:24:12 am »
'all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU'

How will it know a wrong signal is wrong?

Every signal carries a "signature", and the ECU reads that. It will know.

This is the result of fancy electronics being taken too far.

1s and 0s are still 1s and 0s.  Tuner's will just emulate the signals.      When people's businesses rely on something, they'll find a way, especially in a digital environment.

I agree, and in SA we'd get away with this tampering, but in Europe lawmakers will surely look at a "quicktest" system to ascertain whether you have tampered, and remove your vehicle from the road.

It starts with people liking shit like ABS on bikes, then ABS becomes compulsory and before you know, we have no choice.

One of the plus points on the new Yamaha T7 mentioned multiple times, is it's simplicity.

This is extremely bad news for the T7 then, how will that bike be given life now?
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2020, 01:29:32 pm »
'all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU'

How will it know a wrong signal is wrong?

Every signal carries a "signature", and the ECU reads that. It will know.

This is the result of fancy electronics being taken too far.

1s and 0s are still 1s and 0s.  Tuner's will just emulate the signals.      When people's businesses rely on something, they'll find a way, especially in a digital environment.

I agree, and in SA we'd get away with this tampering, but in Europe lawmakers will surely look at a "quicktest" system to ascertain whether you have tampered, and remove your vehicle from the road.

It starts with people liking shit like ABS on bikes, then ABS becomes compulsory and before you know, we have no choice.

One of the plus points on the new Yamaha T7 mentioned multiple times, is it's simplicity.

This is extremely bad news for the T7 then, how will that bike be given life now?

Like in the old days, n pyp en n filter.......
 

Offline BuRP

Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2020, 01:48:07 pm »
Like in the old days, n pyp en n filter.......

.... en dalk die uittrek van n fuse om die akelige ABS te disable?
Jislike jong, ek wil nie terug inni boom nie  ;)
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2020, 03:19:51 pm »
Like in the old days, n pyp en n filter.......

.... en dalk die uittrek van n fuse om die akelige ABS te disable?
Jislike jong, ek wil nie terug inni boom nie  ;)

Maar in die boom vang die wille diere jou nie. :deal:
 

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Re: Euro 5 shuts down engine tuners
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2020, 04:59:24 pm »
'all sensors including the air temperature sensor signal are being monitored by the motorcycle ECU'

How will it know a wrong signal is wrong?

Every signal carries a "signature", and the ECU reads that. It will know.

This is the result of fancy electronics being taken too far.

1s and 0s are still 1s and 0s.  Tuner's will just emulate the signals.      When people's businesses rely on something, they'll find a way, especially in a digital environment.
Yep, if it is digital it can and will be hacked. >:D