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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Emergency procedures
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2020, 04:23:27 pm »
Speaking as someone who had an accident, a tremendous help to me was just the first on scene people asking emergency (family) numbers and calling them, calling ambulance, relaying my medical aid info to responders and just asking me about myself and chatting to me to distract me until the ambulance arrived. It must have been a little distressing to them seeing me folded like a pretzel but still keeping calm and not freak me out even more. Well mind you, the lady who kept putting her hands on me praying profusely did freak me out a little. I know she meant well but it made me think I was dying for sure  :imaposer:

Where on you did she put her hands? :eek7: :pot:

She was praying not preying  :imaposer:

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Offline cocky

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Re: Emergency procedures
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2020, 08:34:10 pm »
Speaking as someone who had an accident, a tremendous help to me was just the first on scene people asking emergency (family) numbers and calling them, calling ambulance, relaying my medical aid info to responders and just asking me about myself and chatting to me to distract me until the ambulance arrived. It must have been a little distressing to them seeing me folded like a pretzel but still keeping calm and not freak me out even more. Well mind you, the lady who kept putting her hands on me praying profusely did freak me out a little. I know she meant well but it made me think I was dying for sure  :imaposer:
It will seem, based on past actions and outcomes, that you are impervious to death!

Despite my best efforts. I'd dare say you were luckier. Walking away from a head on is not something everyone can put on their CV
One small head-on!
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Offline Kortbroek

Re: Emergency procedures
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2020, 07:48:07 am »
In my opinion the only reason to remove the helmet is if you need to do cpr. Remember with most helmets you can pull out a lot of the padding on the sides first then the helmet comes off very easily.

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Offline Fudmucker

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Re: Emergency procedures
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2020, 11:41:51 am »
In my opinion the only reason to remove the helmet is if you need to do cpr. Remember with most helmets you can pull out a lot of the padding on the sides first then the helmet comes off very easily.

The latest training recommends to NOT do mouth-to-mouth due to COVID etc risk to First Responders.
Chest compressions will deflate and expand the chest enough to cycle air in the lungs.
By the time you have removed the helmet, the lack of circulation will have already caused a lot of permanent damage.
If there is assistance available, the helmet strap can be loosened.
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Offline Kortbroek

Re: Emergency procedures
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2020, 12:18:06 pm »
In my opinion the only reason to remove the helmet is if you need to do cpr. Remember with most helmets you can pull out a lot of the padding on the sides first then the helmet comes off very easily.

The latest training recommends to NOT do mouth-to-mouth due to COVID etc risk to First Responders.
Chest compressions will deflate and expand the chest enough to cycle air in the lungs.
By the time you have removed the helmet, the lack of circulation will have already caused a lot of permanent damage.
If there is assistance available, the helmet strap can be loosened.

Covid aside, it doesn't take that long to remove a helmet safely if you have to. Secondly, rescue breathing is still very relevant to CPR. CPR is incredibly hard work, you want every little advantage you can get. You have no idea how difficult it is until you've actually done it for real.

When I recently renewed my level 3 wilderness first aid we spoke about this and the consensus was you still do both rescue breathing and compressions. That said, if you are not able to do both then compressions is the first prize yes. See below also a nice article outlining it a bit better.

https://emergencycare.hsi.com/blog/rescue-breaths-are-they-gone-or-not


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Offline Fudmucker

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Re: Emergency procedures
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2020, 12:25:39 pm »
From the referenced article above:

"In 2010, the CPR guidelines were updated with the concept of compression-only CPR as a separate option for untrained bystanders. This was based on the concept that, for at least a few minutes, chest compressions alone could circulate the remaining oxygen in the bloodstream of a victim of sudden cardiac arrest. Evidence showed that, in this circumstance, compression-only CPR was just as effective as traditional CPR with compressions and breaths."

and later...

"So, rescue breaths were not eliminated for trained lay CPR providers, just for the much shorter and broader awareness of compression-only CPR."

Thank you for the reference.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 12:29:37 pm by Fudmucker »
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Offline pwt

Re: Emergency procedures
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2020, 04:32:11 pm »
The standard first aid drill is HHH followed by ABC
The first H is for hazards, self-explanatory, but remember that hazards does include all hazards to the casualty aa well as the responder and this includes the hazard of contracting transferrable and contagious diseases
The 2nd H is for Help, to immediately commission some form of assistance, telephonically or a passerby that can call for an ambulance or, or
And the 3rd H is for Hello to determine if the casualty is responsive

Thereafter one would proceed to administering the ABC,
Airway to see if there are any obstructions hindering breathing
Breathing to determine if the person is breathing
Circulation to determine whether the person has a heartbeat and simultaneously look for visual signs of major trauma (major leaks)

This is the basic primary examination to determine your next step as a first responder
 
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Offline King Louis

Re: Emergency procedures
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2020, 04:49:16 pm »
Any accident with personal injury is hectic. I can only comment based on personal experience as a first aider (level 2), not as a professional.

Once you have done your first aid, lots of what you learned goes into the back of the mind and unless you deal with it regularly, you could easily panic. If you are lucky, you only have one injured. The more they get, the more hectic it becomes. My first accident was two years after the course. Of course, a car t-boned a mini taxi. The lady in the car had abdominal pain, probably from being pushed into the seatbelt. Out of the rolled taxi came 7 people with a variety of injuries. First step is always to ensure your own safety, not the injured. A dead helper can't do much. Then you have to asses the emergency scene and check for hazards. Pretty quickly you should take control of the scene, use bystanders or uninjured people to call emergency services. You have to check, which one of the injured is the worst off and deal with them as good as you can. If possible, obtain consent from the injured. It could be implied (if the patient is unable to give consent), actual consent, or consent regarding a minor. Legally, it is highly unlikely to have any consequences for you, as you do the best you can according to your knowledge.

Always wear gloves, when treating people. I had one lady with the abdominal pain, one gent with a clearly broken collar bone, one chap with cuts on his lower leg. So I asked one of the uninjured to monitor the lady and keep me informed, if she looses consciousness, then checked the collar bone, then cleaned the cuts of the guy. At that time my gloves broke. You have to decide to stop treating or continue. A lot goes through your mind at such time. Then someone, who thought he was seriously injured, tried to get my attention (my trainer calls them the walking dead....). And you still have to check the others. It took the ambulance about 15 minutes (seemingly, might have been faster) to arrive and the paramedics took over.

When it comes to CPR, there are two options: either rescue breathing or compressions, or both. Whichever you decide, the quicker, the better. Check for breathing, pulse, apply mouth to mouth and/or compress the sternum. Without rescue breathing, at least by compressing you try to continue the heart to pump blood through the system, which allows oxygen to get to organs. The patient is either in shock already, or about to go into shock, which stops oxygen to reach vital organs. So speed does make a difference. If anyone here has better or different medical advice, please go for it and let us know.

Every accident is different, sometimes I take my first aid brochure out and go through it, just to familiarise myself with what to do again. All I can hope for, should I be in need of a first aider, that one will be there.

Some facilitators for first aid training can show you, how to safely remove a helmet, it usually does require two people. One to hold the injured persons head still, the other to remove the helmet as careful as possible.