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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1660 on: October 17, 2021, 11:03:01 am »
Never been a fan of MM93, but you simply cannot deny he is gifted.
Whereas other golden riders like Lorenzo pitched into the Motogp, competing against VR46 that was still supreme, MM came into the scene where the reign of VR was starting  to decline.
It was inevitable that MM would be controversial, this young guy that grew up, go through the ranks, and ultimately compete (and win) against his childhood hero.
VR was a peoples champ. and still is for many.
MM do not have the charm. But he has the talent.
MM can be criticized  for being very assertive, but that is racing. There is only one winner.
Simoncelli and VR was also aggressive, but the crowds will more easily forgive these charming guys.


You're spot on.

Actually, Rossi just managed to hide his sharp edge better. :biggrin:

But, if we are to compare personalities, Rossi went through more of a "lean" time at Ducati than MM will ever experience at Honda, yet VR never showed the nasty little things that MM came up with over the last year or so.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 11:04:56 am by 2StrokeDan »
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1661 on: October 18, 2021, 10:40:03 am »
Never been a fan of MM93, but you simply cannot deny he is gifted.
Whereas other golden riders like Lorenzo pitched into the Motogp, competing against VR46 that was still supreme, MM came into the scene where the reign of VR was starting  to decline.
It was inevitable that MM would be controversial, this young guy that grew up, go through the ranks, and ultimately compete (and win) against his childhood hero.
VR was a peoples champ. and still is for many.
MM do not have the charm. But he has the talent.
MM can be criticized  for being very assertive, but that is racing. There is only one winner.
Simoncelli and VR was also aggressive, but the crowds will more easily forgive these charming guys.


You're spot on.

Actually, Rossi just managed to hide his sharp edge better. :biggrin:

But, if we are to compare personalities, Rossi went through more of a "lean" time at Ducati than MM will ever experience at Honda, yet VR never showed the nasty little things that MM came up with over the last year or so.
Rossi never had to come back from a serious injury afaik
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1662 on: October 18, 2021, 01:10:55 pm »
Never been a fan of MM93, but you simply cannot deny he is gifted.
Whereas other golden riders like Lorenzo pitched into the Motogp, competing against VR46 that was still supreme, MM came into the scene where the reign of VR was starting  to decline.
It was inevitable that MM would be controversial, this young guy that grew up, go through the ranks, and ultimately compete (and win) against his childhood hero.
VR was a peoples champ. and still is for many.
MM do not have the charm. But he has the talent.
MM can be criticized  for being very assertive, but that is racing. There is only one winner.
Simoncelli and VR was also aggressive, but the crowds will more easily forgive these charming guys.


You're spot on.

Actually, Rossi just managed to hide his sharp edge better. :biggrin:

But, if we are to compare personalities, Rossi went through more of a "lean" time at Ducati than MM will ever experience at Honda, yet VR never showed the nasty little things that MM came up with over the last year or so.
Rossi never had to come back from a serious injury afaik

Indeed.  Worst was a broken leg.  Perhaps, not having to come back from a serious injury is a huge part of being the GOAT?


 
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1663 on: October 18, 2021, 01:34:34 pm »
Never been a fan of MM93, but you simply cannot deny he is gifted.
Whereas other golden riders like Lorenzo pitched into the Motogp, competing against VR46 that was still supreme, MM came into the scene where the reign of VR was starting  to decline.
It was inevitable that MM would be controversial, this young guy that grew up, go through the ranks, and ultimately compete (and win) against his childhood hero.
VR was a peoples champ. and still is for many.
MM do not have the charm. But he has the talent.
MM can be criticized  for being very assertive, but that is racing. There is only one winner.
Simoncelli and VR was also aggressive, but the crowds will more easily forgive these charming guys.


You're spot on.

Actually, Rossi just managed to hide his sharp edge better. :biggrin:

But, if we are to compare personalities, Rossi went through more of a "lean" time at Ducati than MM will ever experience at Honda, yet VR never showed the nasty little things that MM came up with over the last year or so.
Rossi never had to come back from a serious injury afaik

Indeed.  Worst was a broken leg.  Perhaps, not having to come back from a serious injury is a huge part of being the GOAT?



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Offline sidetrack

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1664 on: October 18, 2021, 06:59:16 pm »
Never been a fan of MM93, but you simply cannot deny he is gifted.
Whereas other golden riders like Lorenzo pitched into the Motogp, competing against VR46 that was still supreme, MM came into the scene where the reign of VR was starting  to decline.
It was inevitable that MM would be controversial, this young guy that grew up, go through the ranks, and ultimately compete (and win) against his childhood hero.
VR was a peoples champ. and still is for many.
MM do not have the charm. But he has the talent.
MM can be criticized  for being very assertive, but that is racing. There is only one winner.
Simoncelli and VR was also aggressive, but the crowds will more easily forgive these charming guys.


You're spot on.

Actually, Rossi just managed to hide his sharp edge better. :biggrin:

But, if we are to compare personalities, Rossi went through more of a "lean" time at Ducati than MM will ever experience at Honda, yet VR never showed the nasty little things that MM came up with over the last year or so.
Rossi never had to come back from a serious injury afaik

Indeed.  Worst was a broken leg.  Perhaps, not having to come back from a serious injury is a huge part of being the GOAT?
Nah MM just took riding to a whole new level. Iím convinced with both at the top of their game MM would still win and I have always been n VR fan.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1665 on: October 18, 2021, 08:59:11 pm »
I have watched both MM and VR over their entire careers, and Rossi is, in my opinion, definitely the top dog here.

Rossi never had to constantly "save' front end washouts, he sensed when he reached the limits of traction.
 

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1666 on: October 18, 2021, 09:04:40 pm »
I have watched both MM and VR over their entire careers, and Rossi is, in my opinion, definitely the top dog here.

Rossi never had to constantly "save' front end washouts, he sensed when he reached the limits of traction.

He just used his elbows (and feet at times) for 'other things' ("no respect" things)  :imaposer:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1667 on: October 18, 2021, 09:06:48 pm »
I have watched both MM and VR over their entire careers, and Rossi is, in my opinion, definitely the top dog here.

Rossi never had to constantly "save' front end washouts, he sensed when he reached the limits of traction.

He just used his elbows (and feet at times) for 'other things' ("no respect" things)  :imaposer:


And sometimes he even motocrossed past some opponent in a corkscrew. :biggrin:
 

Offline sidetrack

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1668 on: October 18, 2021, 09:53:24 pm »
I have watched both MM and VR over their entire careers, and Rossi is, in my opinion, definitely the top dog here.

Rossi never had to constantly "save' front end washouts, he sensed when he reached the limits of traction.
At least we agree that Japanese bikes are the best  :biggrin:
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1669 on: October 18, 2021, 10:05:24 pm »
I have watched both MM and VR over their entire careers, and Rossi is, in my opinion, definitely the top dog here.

Rossi never had to constantly "save' front end washouts, he sensed when he reached the limits of traction.
At least we agree that Japanese bikes are the best  :biggrin:



Absolutely.

The comparison between MM and VR is, like in any other form of competition where two greats did not really compete in the same time-frame, a difficult one.

For all practical purposes, mm and VR are in the same class.
 

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1670 on: October 20, 2021, 06:30:45 am »
Oh but they did. VR lost.
 

Offline Bappas

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1671 on: October 20, 2021, 07:19:34 am »
I have watched both MM and VR over their entire careers, and Rossi is, in my opinion, definitely the top dog here.

Rossi never had to constantly "save' front end washouts, he sensed when he reached the limits of traction.
At least we agree that Japanese bikes are the best  :biggrin:





Absolutely.

The comparison between MM and VR is, like in any other form of competition where two greats did not really compete in the same time-frame, a difficult one.

For all practical purposes, mm and VR are in the same class.

I think you are right must compare apples with apples ! But Rossi s career is done now and Mark a some time to go! But Rossi has been and still is the best ambasedor the sport has ever had ! And that is a pair of shoes I do not think will be filled soon if ever.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1672 on: October 20, 2021, 07:29:05 am »
Oh but they did. VR lost.


If you want to allocate the dubious honour to MM for beating an ageing GOAT?

You only have to look at the two riders' different ages to see what I meant.
 

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1673 on: October 20, 2021, 08:34:58 am »
Oh but they did. VR lost.


If you want to allocate the dubious honour to MM for beating an ageing GOAT?

You only have to look at the two riders' different ages to see what I meant.

thats why real GOATs know when to retire.  cant stay in the game and claim excuses - compete or retire.  This will unfortunately always be VR's legacy - not knowing when to retire and frankly spoiling an otherwise great career.  pity really
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1674 on: October 20, 2021, 12:36:22 pm »
Oh but they did. VR lost.


If you want to allocate the dubious honour to MM for beating an ageing GOAT?

You only have to look at the two riders' different ages to see what I meant.

thats why real GOATs know when to retire.  cant stay in the game and claim excuses - compete or retire.  This will unfortunately always be VR's legacy - not knowing when to retire and frankly spoiling an otherwise great career.  pity really

Balderdash.  VR will be remembered for all the great he has done.  As will MM one day, or Tiger Woods, or whoever.  This thing that retiring late, early or somewhere in between will somehow cause some imagined blemish on a person's legacy is just that, imagination.  Just an old wifes tale.  Watch this Sunday's MotoGP race.  Look at the fan base.  Go explain to them VR's legacy is somehow damaged by his so-called late retirement. 

I am willing to bet that had VR retired three or four years ago, some such as yourself, would have loudly proclaimed he is retiring early because he is in fear of MM and other young guns coming up through the ranks.   
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 12:40:17 pm by TheBear »
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Offline Dux

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1675 on: October 20, 2021, 03:36:44 pm »
VR also has a 500 championship to his name , but over and above that he has always been a great ambassador for the sport , not that MM hasn't but VR46 took it to a new level .
On old champions and racers it is also good to see old racers still involved and promoting the sport , in the UK and USA it is not unusual to have Spencer , Schwantz , Lawson , Gardner , Sarron etc making appearances at track days and shows .
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1676 on: October 20, 2021, 08:41:10 pm »
Oh but they did. VR lost.


If you want to allocate the dubious honour to MM for beating an ageing GOAT?

You only have to look at the two riders' different ages to see what I meant.

thats why real GOATs know when to retire.  cant stay in the game and claim excuses - compete or retire.  This will unfortunately always be VR's legacy - not knowing when to retire and frankly spoiling an otherwise great career.  pity really



The only "real' GOAT that ever knew when to retire was Airton Senna.
 

Offline Antonie

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1677 on: October 20, 2021, 09:23:52 pm »
Oh but they did. VR lost.


If you want to allocate the dubious honour to MM for beating an ageing GOAT?

You only have to look at the two riders' different ages to see what I meant.

thats why real GOATs know when to retire.  cant stay in the game and claim excuses - compete or retire.  This will unfortunately always be VR's legacy - not knowing when to retire and frankly spoiling an otherwise great career.  pity really



The only "real' GOAT that ever knew when to retire was Airton Senna.
Funny, this should be in the dark humor thread




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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1678 on: October 21, 2021, 07:57:29 am »
Oh but they did. VR lost.


If you want to allocate the dubious honour to MM for beating an ageing GOAT?

You only have to look at the two riders' different ages to see what I meant.

thats why real GOATs know when to retire.  cant stay in the game and claim excuses - compete or retire.  This will unfortunately always be VR's legacy - not knowing when to retire and frankly spoiling an otherwise great career.  pity really



The only "real' GOAT that ever knew when to retire was Airton Senna.
I dare say that was a bit of an early retirement.
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1679 on: October 21, 2021, 11:57:05 am »
Oh but they did. VR lost.


If you want to allocate the dubious honour to MM for beating an ageing GOAT?

You only have to look at the two riders' different ages to see what I meant.

thats why real GOATs know when to retire.  cant stay in the game and claim excuses - compete or retire.  This will unfortunately always be VR's legacy - not knowing when to retire and frankly spoiling an otherwise great career.  pity really



The only "real' GOAT that ever knew when to retire was Airton Senna.
I dare say that was a bit of an early retirement.


But correct according to Kilroy's "retire when you're on top" :imaposer: