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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #240 on: March 16, 2021, 01:06:38 pm »
Ducati know what they are playing with - and yes it is ground effect aerodynamics with a focus on cornering. And yes because arriving in the corners rather hotter than most all others has its own challenges ... as well as chassis DNA that knows this long time 🙃
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #241 on: March 16, 2021, 07:11:33 pm »
I would be interested to see how anyone is going to transfer "downforce into a bike's tyres, leaned over at say, 45degrees. There is no way, the way I see it, to transfer "downforce" through tyres into tarmac

while keeping that "downforce'  perpendicular to the tarmac. Anything else will add to outward force, and make the tyre lose grip.

Note; I am not saying Ducati's engineers are not brilliant, just that this one is sticky on a bike.
 

Offline Cracker

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #242 on: March 16, 2021, 07:45:05 pm »
Perhaps different airflow in corners can adjust the downforce to either the back or front wheel?

If TC keeps the back wheel in check, then adding downforce to the front wheel should help.

Or, perhaps playing with corner airflow gives you more speed at same lean angle, essentially meaning that you can travel at the same speed as everyone else but at less lean angle.

Good for tyres, which equals good tyres for longer, which equals a race win.

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Offline bud500

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #243 on: March 17, 2021, 10:06:21 am »
I would be interested to see how anyone is going to transfer "downforce into a bike's tyres, leaned over at say, 45degrees. There is no way, the way I see it, to transfer "downforce" through tyres into tarmac

while keeping that "downforce'  perpendicular to the tarmac. Anything else will add to outward force, and make the tyre lose grip.

Note; I am not saying Ducati's engineers are not brilliant, just that this one is sticky on a bike.

I agree and definately am not clever enough for this.
But if you harness the airflow in a corner and apply that pressure to a lever, it "just" depends where that lever is anchored to transfer said pressure and create a desired effect.

Or not... O0

Plus, what would the effect then be in a straight line.... :lamer:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 10:07:34 am by bud500 »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #244 on: March 17, 2021, 01:00:35 pm »
I would be interested to see how anyone is going to transfer "downforce into a bike's tyres, leaned over at say, 45degrees. There is no way, the way I see it, to transfer "downforce" through tyres into tarmac

while keeping that "downforce'  perpendicular to the tarmac. Anything else will add to outward force, and make the tyre lose grip.

Note; I am not saying Ducati's engineers are not brilliant, just that this one is sticky on a bike.

I agree and definately am not clever enough for this.
But if you harness the airflow in a corner and apply that pressure to a lever, it "just" depends where that lever is anchored to transfer said pressure and create a desired effect.

Or not... O0

Plus, what would the effect then be in a straight line.... :lamer:

One would have to have the ability of onboard control of the ducting/wings.
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #245 on: March 17, 2021, 01:00:39 pm »
I would be interested to see how anyone is going to transfer "downforce into a bike's tyres, leaned over at say, 45degrees. There is no way, the way I see it, to transfer "downforce" through tyres into tarmac

while keeping that "downforce'  perpendicular to the tarmac. Anything else will add to outward force, and make the tyre lose grip.

Note; I am not saying Ducati's engineers are not brilliant, just that this one is sticky on a bike.

I fully agree that this sounds impossible.  I had no doubt that it cannot possibly be done.  Then, I saw those strange looking " tunnels" in the bottom part of the Ducati fairing and a bit of doubt crept in.  Now I am seriously wondering and if they do succeed, I would not be surprised.  Luckily, we will soon see.

Over the years, there has been a long list of " that is impossible"  issues that we saw become possible as the seasons went by.  It would be amazing to see yet another one ticked of as " possible actually".

I managed to fond the article again.  See link below.  Very clever aerodynamic engineers seems to believe it possible and already happening at Ducati since 2019.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/is-ducati-using-ground-effect-for-more-grip-in-motogp
 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 01:05:11 pm by TheBear »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #246 on: March 17, 2021, 01:11:25 pm »
I would be interested to see how anyone is going to transfer "downforce into a bike's tyres, leaned over at say, 45degrees. There is no way, the way I see it, to transfer "downforce" through tyres into tarmac

while keeping that "downforce'  perpendicular to the tarmac. Anything else will add to outward force, and make the tyre lose grip.

Note; I am not saying Ducati's engineers are not brilliant, just that this one is sticky on a bike.

I fully agree that this sounds impossible.  I had no doubt that it cannot possibly be done.  Then, I saw those strange looking " tunnels" in the bottom part of the Ducati fairing and a bit of doubt crept in.  Now I am seriously wondering and if they do succeed, I would not be surprised.  Luckily, we will soon see.

Over the years, there has been a long list of " that is impossible"  issues that we saw become possible as the seasons went by.  It would be amazing to see yet another one ticked of as " possible actually".

I managed to fond the article again.  See link below.  Very clever aerodynamic engineers seems to believe it possible and already happening at Ducati since 2019.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/is-ducati-using-ground-effect-for-more-grip-in-motogp
 

I have never before seen anything on a car or motorcycle as "impossible", even this, just very hard to understand how they'll make it work.

Some of these things are psychological acting to work on other teams' self confidence. :deal:
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #247 on: March 17, 2021, 01:38:22 pm »
I would be interested to see how anyone is going to transfer "downforce into a bike's tyres, leaned over at say, 45degrees. There is no way, the way I see it, to transfer "downforce" through tyres into tarmac

while keeping that "downforce'  perpendicular to the tarmac. Anything else will add to outward force, and make the tyre lose grip.

Note; I am not saying Ducati's engineers are not brilliant, just that this one is sticky on a bike.

I fully agree that this sounds impossible.  I had no doubt that it cannot possibly be done.  Then, I saw those strange looking " tunnels" in the bottom part of the Ducati fairing and a bit of doubt crept in.  Now I am seriously wondering and if they do succeed, I would not be surprised.  Luckily, we will soon see.

Over the years, there has been a long list of " that is impossible"  issues that we saw become possible as the seasons went by.  It would be amazing to see yet another one ticked of as " possible actually".

I managed to fond the article again.  See link below.  Very clever aerodynamic engineers seems to believe it possible and already happening at Ducati since 2019.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/is-ducati-using-ground-effect-for-more-grip-in-motogp
 

I have never before seen anything on a car or motorcycle as "impossible", even this, just very hard to understand how they'll make it work.

Some of these things are psychological acting to work on other teams' self confidence. :deal:

Well, of course.  If I can convince Rossi to go .5sec a lap faster because he patted his dog twice and it works, why not?  The chang emay be in the mind, as long as the results are real.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #248 on: March 17, 2021, 02:15:32 pm »
MM93 on a Honda RC213V-S yesterday on the Barcelona track.

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Offline sidetrack

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #249 on: March 17, 2021, 03:18:18 pm »
MM93 on a Honda RC213V-S yesterday on the Barcelona track.


Champ is back
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #250 on: March 17, 2021, 04:25:55 pm »
In a big way  :imaposer:
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #251 on: March 17, 2021, 05:44:05 pm »
MM93 on a Honda RC213V-S yesterday on the Barcelona track.


Champ is back

Mir was never gone.   :lol8:

MM93, not yet.  Testing his shoulder a long way from where the first MGP will be.  Perhaps once they return to start the European circuit.
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #252 on: March 18, 2021, 11:56:44 am »
Luca Marini days to first race.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 11:57:15 am by TheBear »
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Offline punisher

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #253 on: March 18, 2021, 12:37:35 pm »
all these fancy 'aids"  , they should just go back to basics ............  solid rubber tires , no suspension ..................  like some wild dogs would prefer
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Offline mox

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #254 on: March 18, 2021, 12:46:00 pm »
.
 

Offline Bappas

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #255 on: March 18, 2021, 02:32:35 pm »
MM93 on a Honda RC213V-S yesterday on the Barcelona track.


Champ is back

Mir was never gone.   :lol8:

MM93, not yet.  Testing his shoulder a long way from where the first MGP will be.  Perhaps once they return to start the European circuit.

The longer it takes the more we will see of the others!  This man like Rossi in the heydays is in a classof his own!  Hope he makes a full recovery!
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #256 on: March 18, 2021, 06:57:44 pm »
all these fancy 'aids"  , they should just go back to basics ............  solid rubber tires , no suspension ..................  like some wild dogs would prefer

The reason we see smaller fields in MotoGp is because of the exorbitant cost of developing fancy "aids'.

Of course, they say it pushes development of roadbikes, but then why stint development by using same tyres, same ECU's, etc?
 

Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #257 on: March 18, 2021, 07:38:52 pm »
all these fancy 'aids"  , they should just go back to basics ............  solid rubber tires , no suspension ..................  like some wild dogs would prefer

The reason we see smaller fields in MotoGp is because of the exorbitant cost of developing fancy "aids'.

Of course, they say it pushes development of roadbikes, but then why stint development by using same tyres, same ECU's, etc?

We are not seeing smaller fields in any of the MotoGP classes.  Exactly the opposite. As little as 8 or so years ago, they had to bring in the Claim Rules Teams (CRT) in MotoGP to get the grid to be over 16 bikes.

M3 and M2 have no space on the grid and a few years ago, they actually had to trim the Moto2 field. 

MotoGP have 24 grid spots of which 22 are occupied.  This is why, if VR46 wants to field a team next year and Suzuki wants to bring in a satellite team and VR46 does not use Suzukis, one of them will have to buy an existing team like Avintia.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 07:40:50 pm by TheBear »
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Offline Cracker

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #258 on: March 18, 2021, 10:23:19 pm »
all these fancy 'aids"  , they should just go back to basics ............  solid rubber tires , no suspension ..................  like some wild dogs would prefer

all these fancy 'aids' are gonna be needed if they wanna beat MM
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #259 on: March 19, 2021, 10:09:20 am »
all these fancy 'aids"  , they should just go back to basics ............  solid rubber tires , no suspension ..................  like some wild dogs would prefer

all these fancy 'aids' are gonna be needed if they wanna beat MM

 :laughing4: :laughing4:

MM93 trolling this early in the season?   :o

Thing is, at present it is absolutely impossible for any of them to beat MM93, just like it is impossible for them to beat you, or me  since none of us are actually in the race to be beaten.   >:D
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 10:10:02 am by TheBear »
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