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Offline Cracker

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1600 on: October 05, 2021, 08:16:37 pm »
from what I read, they want a frame that is super rigid but can also 'bend' going round corners.
After trying to digest what that meant, I gave up and poured a rum.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1601 on: October 05, 2021, 08:39:06 pm »
from what I read, they want a frame that is super rigid but can also 'bend' going round corners.
After trying to digest what that meant, I gave up and poured a rum.


Kawasaki had just such a frame in the old Z900/1000. :biggrin:
 

Offline Dux

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1602 on: October 05, 2021, 08:58:11 pm »
from what I read, they want a frame that is super rigid but can also 'bend' going round corners.
After trying to digest what that meant, I gave up and poured a rum.


Kawasaki had just such a frame in the old Z900/1000. :biggrin:

Our flexible friends  :lol8: , actually I have an almost original Z900 coming in for a service next week .
« Last Edit: October 05, 2021, 08:59:27 pm by Dux »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1603 on: October 05, 2021, 09:03:31 pm »
from what I read, they want a frame that is super rigid but can also 'bend' going round corners.
After trying to digest what that meant, I gave up and poured a rum.


Kawasaki had just such a frame in the old Z900/1000. :biggrin:

Our flexible friends  :lol8: , actually I have an almost original Z900 coming in for a service next week .



I have not seen one for many years.  :thumleft:
 

Offline Bappas

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1604 on: October 06, 2021, 07:55:25 am »
Here is a thought maybe KTM and Ducatiís cant turn as well because of their ancient steel trellis frames ? I have always wondered why the Japanese went that route but not the Euroís ? Surely more flex in those steel frames
Modern steel like Domex can have a different outcome they are the new kids and must try and find a edge!
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1605 on: October 06, 2021, 08:05:11 am »
Here is a thought maybe KTM and Ducatiís cant turn as well because of their ancient steel trellis frames ? I have always wondered why the Japanese went that route but not the Euroís ? Surely more flex in those steel frames
I actually thing the steel trellis frames are more rigid.

Thats the problem - one needs flex.It is designed into them.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 08:06:31 am by BiG DoM »
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Offline mark250gp

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1606 on: October 06, 2021, 08:11:09 am »
I was told by Hilton Hayward that in offr-oad bikes KTM use steel frames exactly for flex.

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ktm-steel-chassis-ducati-pierer/4388101/
 

Online Tman21

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1607 on: October 06, 2021, 08:44:29 am »
I was told by Hilton Hayward that in offr-oad bikes KTM use steel frames exactly for flex.

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ktm-steel-chassis-ducati-pierer/4388101/

Exactly, they also moved to a slightly softer frame with 1' degree forward on the motor recently, giving the 2T bikes a more planted front end feel.

Im pretty sure the 280hp odd does funny things to that steel frame once in motion.
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Online TheHamster

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1608 on: October 06, 2021, 08:57:39 am »
Improvements come down to millimeters and fractions of degrees it seems.

Makes you wonder just how many more improvements can ever be made to the sport? It will evolve eternally no doubt, in minute amounts, to the point of hardly being noticed; much aligned to an exponential graph, where as time increases constantly the improvements become less.

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1609 on: October 06, 2021, 09:09:45 am »
Improvements come down to millimeters and fractions of degrees it seems.

Makes you wonder just how many more improvements can ever be made to the sport? It will evolve eternally no doubt, in minute amounts, to the point of hardly being noticed; much aligned to an exponential graph, where as time increases constantly the improvements become less.

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Ive been having thoughts along these lines as well.  But when you look at the stats of the fastest laps, lap records and race laps there are still plenty times from 2012-2015 that are standing.  Think regulations throws a massive curve ball to the evolution of the bikes but as mentioned here before 22 is gonna be interesting with new motors and frames almost across the board.
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1610 on: October 06, 2021, 09:19:10 am »
Steel framed mountain bikes also had more flex than later alu and carbon bikes. Was around 1985/86 the alu frames started to appear on sportsbikes from Japan and 1997 for the Honda CR MX bikes
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 09:20:15 am by sidetrack »
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1611 on: October 06, 2021, 10:37:03 am »
Improvements come down to millimeters and fractions of degrees it seems.

Makes you wonder just how many more improvements can ever be made to the sport? It will evolve eternally no doubt, in minute amounts, to the point of hardly being noticed; much aligned to an exponential graph, where as time increases constantly the improvements become less.

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Ive been having thoughts along these lines as well.  But when you look at the stats of the fastest laps, lap records and race laps there are still plenty times from 2012-2015 that are standing.  Think regulations throws a massive curve ball to the evolution of the bikes but as mentioned here before 22 is gonna be interesting with new motors and frames almost across the board.

Keep in mind that their performance was somewhat limited when the unified ECU was introduced and then the unified IMU a year or so later. Like you said, rules and regs throws the odd curveball. 
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Offline I&horse

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1612 on: October 06, 2021, 10:40:49 am »
I remember a while ago KTM took mounting bolts out of their frames to allow more flex :o
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1613 on: October 06, 2021, 12:00:19 pm »
Steel framed mountain bikes also had more flex than later alu and carbon bikes. Was around 1985/86 the alu frames started to appear on sportsbikes from Japan and 1997 for the Honda CR MX bikes


And that first Honda CR with alloy frame actually cuased a lot of criticism to be levelled at it's inflexibility. Some riders complained about the chassis being too stiff.
 

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1614 on: October 06, 2021, 12:52:14 pm »
A question - do these gp bikes have an adjustable rake and if so, how?

Is it just moving forks, springs etc, like on a normal bike, or do they do something different?
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1615 on: October 06, 2021, 01:39:20 pm »
A question - do these gp bikes have an adjustable rake and if so, how?

Is it just moving forks, springs etc, like on a normal bike, or do they do something different?
The Ducati 916 roadbike had such a system whereby the steering stem can be rotated on a cam adjusting the angle, could be like that ?
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Offline TheBear

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1616 on: October 06, 2021, 02:27:11 pm »
A question - do these gp bikes have an adjustable rake and if so, how?

Is it just moving forks, springs etc, like on a normal bike, or do they do something different?

I don't know, but would be surprised if they couldn't.
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Offline ZK1

Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1617 on: October 06, 2021, 03:08:16 pm »
Ok I was wrong, this from 2019

Piet(Pit) said: "We will never leave aside the tubular chassis because it is one of the main advantages of our bikes," he said.

"You gain flexibility and lose weight, that's how we dominate the motorcycling world in many disciplines.

I just read, it's also a lot faster for them to make new style frames using the steel tubes, than billet alu.

They just need to catch a wake up and make it work for Brad.
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1618 on: October 06, 2021, 04:58:24 pm »
Is flex a good thing with 280HP and super smooth track ? Off road it makes more sense.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 04:58:45 pm by sidetrack »
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Offline BiG DoM

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Re: MotoGP 2021
« Reply #1619 on: October 06, 2021, 06:04:42 pm »
Is flex a good thing with 280HP and super smooth track ? Off road it makes more sense.

Absolutely. And where are the super smooth tracks? Few and far between. The guys were wearing fooking kidney belts on Sunday!  ::)


« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 06:10:25 pm by BiG DoM »
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