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Online Hardy de Kock

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Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #80 on: April 08, 2021, 01:42:27 pm »
I am all for old school basic bikes but on our trip with you Hardy, the DR I rode (albeit not pristine or standard) used double the amount of fuel compared to the 501. The G450X needed 4L for every 3L on the 501.

Sure fuel consumption is not why we buy bikes but when doing long distance remote travel, how far you can go on say 20L of fuel carried should be an important consideration.

And I am biased too but I sold my 690 just over the upper end of the budget mentioned and I would've trusted that bike to take me to Cairo and back.

Other than that, I would also go BMX

In all fairness  the DR that you rode had a pumper carb fitted which doesnít do much for economy , but then again the DR did last the whole trip .

People like to jump on the "DR completed the trip" wagon as if it's some magical unicorn. All the bikes made the trip except the dodgy one I bought just before the trip which happened to have had pre-existing issues.

I was blown away that the DR lasted the trip to be totally honest. It's a little tired, was using almost as much oil as fuel and it was as straight as Elton John.

Dwerg - If you look at the poll you will see that people hold the DR in high regard, and for many reasons they seem to believe that it is a very reliable bike. We have had numerous problems with 690's on our tours though.
Everything from CDI's, rocker arms, faulty factory wiring and injector problems, has halted the tour for 9 riders if I am not mistaken. You are welcome to claim the 690 is a brilliant bike (and I agree that it is), but you can't argue that they do (did) not come with a world of problems. Obviously I also understand the performance vs reliability concept and I also understand that if a DR were as powerful as a 690, it would have had a lot more problems.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 01:57:02 pm by Hardy de Kock »
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #81 on: April 08, 2021, 02:39:53 pm »
I am all for old school basic bikes but on our trip with you Hardy, the DR I rode (albeit not pristine or standard) used double the amount of fuel compared to the 501. The G450X needed 4L for every 3L on the 501.

Sure fuel consumption is not why we buy bikes but when doing long distance remote travel, how far you can go on say 20L of fuel carried should be an important consideration.

And I am biased too but I sold my 690 just over the upper end of the budget mentioned and I would've trusted that bike to take me to Cairo and back.

Other than that, I would also go BMX

In all fairness  the DR that you rode had a pumper carb fitted which doesnít do much for economy , but then again the DR did last the whole trip .

People like to jump on the "DR completed the trip" wagon as if it's some magical unicorn. All the bikes made the trip except the dodgy one I bought just before the trip which happened to have had pre-existing issues.

I was blown away that the DR lasted the trip to be totally honest. It's a little tired, was using almost as much oil as fuel and it was as straight as Elton John.

Dwerg - If you look at the poll you will see that people hold the DR in high regard, and for many reasons they seem to believe that it is a very reliable bike. We have had numerous problems with 690's on our tours though.
Everything from CDI's, rocker arms, faulty factory wiring and injector problems, has halted the tour for 9 riders if I am not mistaken. You are welcome to claim the 690 is a brilliant bike (and I agree that it is), but you can't argue that they do (did) not come with a world of problems. Obviously I also understand the performance vs reliability concept and I also understand that if a DR were as powerful as a 690, it would have had a lot more problems.

I hold the DR in high regard too, I don't know why you'd think I don't. I'm just highlighting that saying 'the DR completed the trip' means ZERO in THIS context. So did every single other bike on the tour including a 690. Well except that one XR of yours which failed spectacularly and very much dangerously which conveniently nobody mentions

I know lots of people with unreliable 690s. Most of them re however pre 2012 or pulled through someone's or naught (several even). I looked after mine and it looked after me.
Previous: KTM 690R, 790ADV, 640ADV, 950ADV, 250XCW BMW F650GS Single, F650GS Twin, F800GS, G450X, R50/2 Honda CRF450X, CRF230 x 2, VFR400 NC30, Z50 Mini Trail Yamaha BWS100 x 2, LB80 Chappy
 

Offline Dwerg

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #82 on: April 08, 2021, 03:06:11 pm »
And just so we are clear, the majority of 'CDI failures' are 100% the result of the alternative meaning of that acronym

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Online Hardy de Kock

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Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #83 on: April 08, 2021, 03:28:25 pm »
I am all for old school basic bikes but on our trip with you Hardy, the DR I rode (albeit not pristine or standard) used double the amount of fuel compared to the 501. The G450X needed 4L for every 3L on the 501.

Sure fuel consumption is not why we buy bikes but when doing long distance remote travel, how far you can go on say 20L of fuel carried should be an important consideration.

And I am biased too but I sold my 690 just over the upper end of the budget mentioned and I would've trusted that bike to take me to Cairo and back.

Other than that, I would also go BMX

In all fairness  the DR that you rode had a pumper carb fitted which doesnít do much for economy , but then again the DR did last the whole trip .

People like to jump on the "DR completed the trip" wagon as if it's some magical unicorn. All the bikes made the trip except the dodgy one I bought just before the trip which happened to have had pre-existing issues.

I was blown away that the DR lasted the trip to be totally honest. It's a little tired, was using almost as much oil as fuel and it was as straight as Elton John.

Dwerg - If you look at the poll you will see that people hold the DR in high regard, and for many reasons they seem to believe that it is a very reliable bike. We have had numerous problems with 690's on our tours though.
Everything from CDI's, rocker arms, faulty factory wiring and injector problems, has halted the tour for 9 riders if I am not mistaken. You are welcome to claim the 690 is a brilliant bike (and I agree that it is), but you can't argue that they do (did) not come with a world of problems. Obviously I also understand the performance vs reliability concept and I also understand that if a DR were as powerful as a 690, it would have had a lot more problems.

I hold the DR in high regard too, I don't know why you'd think I don't. I'm just highlighting that saying 'the DR completed the trip' means ZERO in THIS context. So did every single other bike on the tour including a 690. Well except that one XR of yours which failed spectacularly and very much dangerously which conveniently nobody mentions

I know lots of people with unreliable 690s. Most of them re however pre 2012 or pulled through someone's or naught (several even). I looked after mine and it looked after me.

Yes we are clear - 1 XR and 9 690ís :thumleft:
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #84 on: April 08, 2021, 03:37:47 pm »
Yes we are clear - 1 XR and 9 690ís :thumleft:

Why ask questions if you have all the answers?
Previous: KTM 690R, 790ADV, 640ADV, 950ADV, 250XCW BMW F650GS Single, F650GS Twin, F800GS, G450X, R50/2 Honda CRF450X, CRF230 x 2, VFR400 NC30, Z50 Mini Trail Yamaha BWS100 x 2, LB80 Chappy
 

Online Hardy de Kock

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Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #85 on: April 08, 2021, 03:39:32 pm »
Yes we are clear - 1 XR and 9 690ís :thumleft:

Why ask questions if you have all the answers?
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Offline Dwerg

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2021, 03:41:23 pm »
Ok my grote
Previous: KTM 690R, 790ADV, 640ADV, 950ADV, 250XCW BMW F650GS Single, F650GS Twin, F800GS, G450X, R50/2 Honda CRF450X, CRF230 x 2, VFR400 NC30, Z50 Mini Trail Yamaha BWS100 x 2, LB80 Chappy
 

Offline Kelevra

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #87 on: April 08, 2021, 03:43:48 pm »
You have to define a beginner. There are too many variables here like age, height, weight, physical ability etc etc. For example, old, short, overweight and  unfit = GS

Edit also where you ride/stay in SA. In die karoo gaan daai klein honda's baie vinnig baie onaangenaam raak.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 03:49:28 pm by Kelevra »
Previous:
Suzuki DR 600 KTM 640 ADV  KTM 530 XCRW KTM 530 EXC Ducati 748 Ducati 1098 KTM 690
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Honda XR 200R  KTM 990 ADV R
 
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Offline m0lt3n

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Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2021, 03:52:53 pm »
aag kan ons nie net n 990 op die lys sit nie? Dan kan julle braaivleis gesprek maar aan gaan


(waaruit ek natuurlik leer...hierdie is maar net my unieke manier van subscribe)





okay dalk leer ek nie, Piki Piki nou al gewys DR650 is koning vir budget travel en nie breek nie. Maar vir my wat glad nie thumpers, klein bikes of ou bikes ken nie, as n dom buitestaander lyk dit die opsomming is enige iets onder n 701.
701 as jy geld het, terwyl 690 as jy nie geld het werk nie (want dan hy te oud)
as jy nie geld het nie kry jy DR650
en dan soos jy nog minder geld of bene het kry jy net kleiner en kleiner 4 stroke bike?

dalk meer uitlig watse bikes onder 650 is slegte opsies?
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Offline Psycho Porra

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Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2021, 04:27:28 pm »
aag kan ons nie net n 990 op die lys sit nie? Dan kan julle braaivleis gesprek maar aan gaan


(waaruit ek natuurlik leer...hierdie is maar net my unieke manier van subscribe)





okay dalk leer ek nie, Piki Piki nou al gewys DR650 is koning vir budget travel en nie breek nie. Maar vir my wat glad nie thumpers, klein bikes of ou bikes ken nie, as n dom buitestaander lyk dit die opsomming is enige iets onder n 701.
701 as jy geld het, terwyl 690 as jy nie geld het werk nie (want dan hy te oud)
as jy nie geld het nie kry jy DR650
en dan soos jy nog minder geld of bene het kry jy net kleiner en kleiner 4 stroke bike?

dalk meer uitlig watse bikes onder 650 is slegte opsies?
wel daar is mos een om te koop vir onder 60k hier op die forum, so hoekom nie
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Online Hardy de Kock

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Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #90 on: April 09, 2021, 03:45:12 pm »
Please make suggestions with regards to members here who can advise on the bikes mentioned in the poll.
it will definitely help others to find info, and it will save "school fees"
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Offline Rexc-w

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #91 on: April 09, 2021, 05:21:25 pm »
Van die fietse gelys sal my keuse val tussen die XR 650 L en die KTM 640 Adventure.  Ek het beide besit in die verlede en baie goeie diens uit altwee gekry.

XR650L: Die fiets benodig net 'n minor modification op die carb en dan is hy eenvoudig en betroubaar vir baie myle. Hy vertel jou ongelukkig nie wanneer hy baie warm kry nie, sy engine wear word maar net bietjie meer.  Waterverkoelde fietse vertel jou wanneer hulle warm kry.

KTM 640 Adv: Waarom kon KTM nie net 'n lekker smooth, ligte 2 cylinder 650cc engine gemaak het en feitlik net so in die 640 Adv se frame/geometry geplaas het nie.  I think the 640 package basically lacked a smoother motor. In the dirt, the engine vibrations never bothered me, but on tarmac above 80km/h is was somewhat unpleasant.

KTM 525s het ek ook besit en baie ure se genot uit beide gehad. Ek beskou die 640 as 'n beter platform vir 'n adventure bike.

DR 650 het ek geen persoonlike ervaring van nie, maar verstaan dit is in beginsel die Suzuki weergawe van 'n XR 650L.
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Offline DUSTRIDERS

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Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #92 on: April 09, 2021, 05:23:48 pm »
KTM 640 Adv: Waarom kon KTM nie net 'n lekker smooth, ligte 2 cylinder 650cc engine gemaak het en feitlik net so in die 640 Adv se frame/geometry geplaas het nie.  I think the 640 package basically lacked a smoother motor. In the dirt, the engine vibrations never bothered me, but on tarmac above 80km/h is was somewhat unpleasant.

Of net om die hoek gaan shop het vir n Rotax 650 in Oostenryk. :deal: :thumleft: ;)
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Online Hardy de Kock

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Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2021, 06:26:27 pm »
Van die fietse gelys sal my keuse val tussen die XR 650 L en die KTM 640 Adventure.  Ek het beide besit in die verlede en baie goeie diens uit altwee gekry.

XR650L: Die fiets benodig net 'n minor modification op die carb en dan is hy eenvoudig en betroubaar vir baie myle. Hy vertel jou ongelukkig nie wanneer hy baie warm kry nie, sy engine wear word maar net bietjie meer.  Waterverkoelde fietse vertel jou wanneer hulle warm kry.

KTM 640 Adv: Waarom kon KTM nie net 'n lekker smooth, ligte 2 cylinder 650cc engine gemaak het en feitlik net so in die 640 Adv se frame/geometry geplaas het nie.  I think the 640 package basically lacked a smoother motor. In the dirt, the engine vibrations never bothered me, but on tarmac above 80km/h is was somewhat unpleasant.

KTM 525s het ek ook besit en baie ure se genot uit beide gehad. Ek beskou die 640 as 'n beter platform vir 'n adventure bike.

DR 650 het ek geen persoonlike ervaring van nie, maar verstaan dit is in beginsel die Suzuki weergawe van 'n XR 650L.

Dankie Rex - goed om te hoor jy is beter. Sterkte met die rehab
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Offline Rexc-w

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #94 on: April 09, 2021, 07:58:38 pm »

Dankie Rex - goed om te hoor jy is beter. Sterkte met die rehab
[/quote]

Dankie Hardy.  Het nou net bietjie tyd en geduld nodig. Die genade is/was groot.
Rex
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Offline dirt rat

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #95 on: April 12, 2021, 07:25:23 am »
My thoughts on this issue are that there is really no such thing as an ideal dual sport bike for beginners.
Beginners have no business riding dual sport bikes.
They should pay their dues by starting on small capacity bikes of any format.
Then get their license.
Once they are competent riding in traffic and have completed a couple of thousand kilometers on tar they can turn their attention to dirt riding.
At this point the bike will be dictated by the persons physical characteristics and skill set.
 

Offline dirt rat

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #96 on: April 12, 2021, 07:36:58 am »
Obviously above advice excludes all who grew up with dirtbikes on farms or who were involved in racing.
Bikes like the 640 ktm- 650x challenge - 650xl -525ktm etc are dedicated dirt bikes and not suitable for beginners.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 07:48:09 am by dirt rat »
 

Offline Spectaitor

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #97 on: April 12, 2021, 08:00:36 am »
Gosh some people's ideas...  :laughing4:
So you are only a better dirt rider after you master tar? Strange...
What dues are you paying when you start on a small capacity bike?
I think it's safe to say that these beginners aren't 18 and have at least had their license for a good few years so it's not to master the rules of the road.
Why then, would you say one has to pay dues?

I got my very 1st bike at the ripe age of 27 and have had it for roughly 18 months.
2nd week of having went through Hella Hella pass (Lots of dirt)
Have done quite a few big outrides, explored the berg etc.
Total of 5500km done since I got the bike. Half of that has been on dirt from month 1  :biggrin:

Did I sin?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 08:01:45 am by Spectaitor »
So much to do, so little time. Better get going then!
 

Offline Spectaitor

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #98 on: April 12, 2021, 08:04:18 am »
Obviously above advice excludes all who grew up with dirtbikes on farms or who were involved in racing.
Bikes like the 640 ktm- 650x challenge - 650xl -525ktm etc are dedicated dirt bikes and not suitable for beginners.
You've clearly never ridden a 100kg bike that was actually manufactured as a "Dedicated dirt bike"
I think the concept of a dual sport is absolutely lost on some people.
Wonder what you think adventure bikes are, since there is a distinction.
So much to do, so little time. Better get going then!
 

Offline Dux

Re: Which affordable dual sport bike for beginners, and why?
« Reply #99 on: April 12, 2021, 08:20:39 am »
My 5c , and this is purely for dirt riding , smaller bikes of the enduro variety allow you to practice technical riding on a light manageable bike without the worry of damaging your pride and joy adventure bike . Skills learnt on a smaller bike can be transferred to larger bikes very easily .
That is why I mentioned the KDX earlier , cheap and good enough to practice those skills and if the bike is damaged then no big deal , they are cheap to repair , you could probably buy a complete UFO plastics kit for a KDX for less than the price of a sidecover on an AT .
Considering Hardyís friend that was mentioned in the opening post , with what he sells his AT for he could buy a KDX and a DR/XR or whatever else he decides on and still have change to do lots of riding .
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