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Offline Hakbos

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Bikes without papers
« on: May 18, 2021, 09:26:48 am »
Morning All

I see a lot of ads, especially on vintage and restoration groups, for "project" or restored bikes without papers. What is the process of getting such a bike legal/on the road again and is it worth the while?

Thanx. Have a good week.
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Offline Lars

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2021, 09:51:31 am »
I have had some bikes without papers. It used to be a matter of a sworn affidavit and proof of where you bought the bike from and invoices of parts bought to restore it. Then you could apply for police clearance and subject to the bike as not flagged as stolen you could register it as a rebuild (code 3). I recently bought two bikes wich were deregistered (scrapped). They were not accident damaged just deregistered. In order to re register them I needed permission from the last registered owner to present it for police clearance on his behalf together with an original police certified copy of his ID and proof of residency. Original copies, nothing emailed or copied. Having something with no papers at all will be almost impossible to get back on the road afaik. Even worse if it is not on enatis.

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Offline LRFan

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2021, 02:38:42 pm »
I agree with LARS, sitting with a car that is not on enatis no I have a car that will not be able to registered.
 

Online WheelieDog

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2021, 04:37:41 pm »
Unless you have the full cooperation of the registered owner you don't stand a chance of sorting out the paperwork. When I say full cooperation I mean where he is prepared to take leave to stand in ques for you at the registration offices, more than once too. On top of that there will be outstanding license fees, fines etc

I've had the displeasure, as a buyer and a seller. My advise is to walk away, no matter how keenly the bike calls your name.
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Online Gerrard

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2021, 07:29:30 pm »
No.
...dis nooit te laat om n happy childhood te he nie !

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Offline Vintage_Mania

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2021, 07:40:08 pm »
It all depends what you want to do with the bike and/or the purpose.

I would not care about papers if it is an old Enduro or MX bike that is going to be used to play off road with no public road riding - this will include all types of public roads Also if you need spares for a bike that has papers then buying a similar bike as "spares" without papers is okay - just remember engine casings and frame numbers. Also if it is going to be worked on a private farm then who cares.

Biggest deterrent is that it can be a stolen motorcycle, but if it is an old and stripped off-roader then the chances are slim, but you just never know. Second biggest is if you are involved in an accident on a public (or not) road and then there are insurance issues - for vehicle, medical and life insurance.
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2021, 08:57:28 pm »
Where's Justin?
 

Offline petri oosthuizen

Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2021, 09:10:09 pm »
No.

....that basically is the answer. :thumleft:
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Offline Allegro

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2021, 06:36:33 am »
It all depends what you want to do with the bike and/or the purpose.

I would not care about papers if it is an old Enduro or MX bike that is going to be used to play off road with no public road riding - this will include all types of public roads Also if you need spares for a bike that has papers then buying a similar bike as "spares" without papers is okay - just remember engine casings and frame numbers. Also if it is going to be worked on a private farm then who cares.

Biggest deterrent is that it can be a stolen motorcycle, but if it is an old and stripped off-roader then the chances are slim, but you just never know. Second biggest is if you are involved in an accident on a public (or not) road and then there are insurance issues - for vehicle, medical and life insurance.

Some time ago, bought my son a YZ125 offroad, also no papers bla, bla, bla. Ended up finding out the bike was still under finance with Standard bank, and they were looking for it, as there was outstanding monies on it. Took me almost a year to get the prev owner to pay SB and me to get the NATiS document  >:(
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Offline Leo

Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2021, 09:16:56 am »
My advice - walk away.

Bought an old airhead about 7 years ago.

Tried to get it registered, got to the point where the licensing authority said I must provide a court order instructing them to license the bike in my name.

5 Years on with lawyer fees, etc I am no where nearer to my goal.

If the original owner is not co-operative or had passed on, you're fucked.  :deal:

Fortunately I have a few other airheads, so I run this one with the others plates and disks, but it's a nervous ride, so I ride it seldom  ;)
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Offline Hakbos

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2021, 06:53:13 am »
Thanx for al the replies. It is sad because there are some nice buys out there.... :(
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Offline Knucklhead

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2021, 07:31:07 am »
i also noticed this , especially on the 50cc groups...and then they still want a a moerse lot of money.. :patch:
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2021, 07:37:39 am »
i also noticed this , especially on the 50cc groups...and then they still want a a moerse lot of money.. :patch:

The money asked for even a non-papered bike is a problem, although in the case of something like a Yamaha RD50, they are worth a lot, and lack of papers is not going to deter a buyer.
 

Offline LouisXander

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2021, 09:02:20 am »
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Offline JustBendIt

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2021, 09:36:20 am »
Where's Justin?

I'm back ...was away for a few days

Each case of "vehicle without papers" can be different and have its own merits / demerits ...some are fairly easy to sort out while others are just a total mess

I would need the VIN and engine number to find out exactly what the story is because the seller usually doesn't know or has conveniently forgotten

Probably the biggest issue, besides the "no papers" vehicle being stolen, is a huge amount of unpaid licence fees and penalties that will have to be paid before new papers can be issued
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Offline sidetrack

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2021, 10:22:30 am »
i also noticed this , especially on the 50cc groups...and then they still want a a moerse lot of money.. :patch:
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Offline Vintage_Mania

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Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2021, 10:29:57 am »
It all depends what you want to do with the bike and/or the purpose.

I would not care about papers if it is an old Enduro or MX bike that is going to be used to play off road with no public road riding - this will include all types of public roads Also if you need spares for a bike that has papers then buying a similar bike as "spares" without papers is okay - just remember engine casings and frame numbers. Also if it is going to be worked on a private farm then who cares.

Biggest deterrent is that it can be a stolen motorcycle, but if it is an old and stripped off-roader then the chances are slim, but you just never know. Second biggest is if you are involved in an accident on a public (or not) road and then there are insurance issues - for vehicle, medical and life insurance.

Some time ago, bought my son a YZ125 offroad, also no papers bla, bla, bla. Ended up finding out the bike was still under finance with Standard bank, and they were looking for it, as there was outstanding monies on it. Took me almost a year to get the prev owner to pay SB and me to get the NATiS document  >:(

You will see all my feedback centers on the fact that you won't need or want papers. If you want to buy to "sort out" the paperwork the rather walk away.
People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day. And doing nothing often leads to the very best kind of something.
 

Offline JIMMI

Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2021, 03:48:04 pm »
I got an old airhead without papers from a fellow forum member a couple of years ago.  Forum member got it from someone that got it from someone etc...

The intention was to use duplicate plates from my GS when riding it on the road. 

I got curious and and went to my local (Darling) DMV and asked the tannie what i must do to get it registered in my name.  She looked on the system and told me there was around R3K outstanding license fees and penalties and had to get the following:

Sworn affidavit from SAPS stating where and how i got the motorcycle.  All relevent vin and engine numbers had to be stipulated.
I also had to specify that the owner was not contactable after exhausting all avenues.

Once I had that she gave me another form for Police Clearance whIch is only scheduled for once a month in my area.  I also had to take out a temp license.

Take motorcycle for Datadot and certificate.

Present bike with above documentation at Police Clearance.

Back to Tannie at DMV, she took all the paperwork and sent it to "hoof kantoor" for approval and authorisation.

About five weeks later i got a call to say it has been approved.  Went in, paid the outstanding fees and got the reg paper in my name.

Please note that prior to approaching the tannie about the paperwork issue i made a concerted effort to be nice and pleasant to her on all my previous interactions with her.  Yes, I blew smoke up her arse knowing that i would need her in my corner.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 03:59:46 pm by JIMMI »
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Offline Leo

Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2021, 04:10:35 pm »
Lucky you - Jimmi  ;)

I don't have a nice old tannie working at my local licensing office.

She is overweight with greasy fingers from eating KFC and feels farkall for me and my requests  :dousing:
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Offline JIMMI

Re: Bikes without papers
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2021, 04:21:00 pm »
My "Tannie" is certainly no looker and initially treated me with the disdain and contempt an english speaker apparently deserves in this neck of the woods.  However i armed myself with chocolates, smiles, compliments and a thick skin.  It took me a while, but i kept focused on the goal.
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