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Offline Bakkie

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2008, 11:58:46 am »
Why print it? Do it online. The costs are less.

It just looks silly sitting with a laptop on the toilet

Use your cellphone.

It's not the same  :-[ and I've lost too many cell phones that way  ::)
There are no short cuts to anywhere worth going!
Performance is paramount, niceties only exist if it doesn't affect performance.

Don't rush it, it's helmet time you need, not a destination. Take it easy.
 

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2008, 12:04:02 pm »
Go for it, StevO!  

Put me down for a subscription right now.  To quote Henry Root, " Here's a pound".
 

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2008, 12:19:42 pm »
And as Michnus says the D/S market will grow and grow.

The question is.........How big is the market really?



Pro Action reckon they are selling more Dual Sport bikes than off road.
 

Offline cloudgazer

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2008, 12:21:52 pm »
I think distribution and a willing audience will be the least of your worries.

Your biggest concern should be content.
 

Offline sillystunt

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2008, 02:19:24 pm »
having worked freelance for papers and mags for the last twenty years and been involved with a couple from the start up here goes.
you will have to have about seven thousand printed before the printers will take on your work,and of course have it distributed.
as we all know the bike dealers wont give you advertising,so you have to go another route,all the guys on the site that are quick to yell ,we support you, make sure they pay upfront for a small advert,no matter what type of business they work in.
they do of course need to sign a twelve month agreement.even its their own business card type advert.
keep the ads at the back,it wont matter if you are advertising teeth cleaning for your pets,just dont put it amongst copy.
you will need to start with about two hundred thousand rand,and be prepared to lose it.

this is an absolute minimum.
rather buy good quality copy and pix from the net than let weekend adventurers take there own pix,god,nothing brings the mag down faster than stationary pix. you have seen the overseas stuff,you need to equal or better it.
we have an abundance of real good talent here in sa,use it,.
it is insanely difficult to get into the cna or large retailer,you need all sorts of gaurantees and you wont get in for at least a year of publication.you can never be late with these guys either.they are ruthless.
remember that the distributor takes his 40% cut before YOU get paid!!!!!
you cannot moonlight and get the mag out,you have to stop your day job.
i recently [may] put a dummy magazine together for the publisher of hustler,as a huge weekly mag just went under,damn forgot its name,it had loads of sport and babes in it!!!!!
anyway c.n.a phoned us and asked us to step in with an equally easy read as they were making money out of the sales of the other mag and were sorry to see it go.
only using local stuff,it took me one whole month to put the dummy together.it consisted of bikes, babes,adventure sport,soccer results,rugby results and news,celeb pix and everything else,it was a monster task .
at that time i was both the editor and photographer of hustler so i had the help of an experienced team of people,c.n.a. rejected it,we think because it lacked british soccer!
anyway that is just an example of how tough it is to get started,
by the way,many guys on this site keep on about an emag,redline motorcycle news which i worked for in the mid nineties has been an emag for years!!!! 
as i was on this mag since the second month,i could tell you about how the advertisers let us down,but you get the picture.
BUT when the horror stories are all said and done it is possible to put out a very good quality mag,distribution is a problem as mail is way to expensive to use now in south africa,but it can be done with a few main pickup points around the country,all the forums would be a good place to start to advertise.
if you have money give it a go,but dont get a second bond to start.
personally i feel that 5000 sales a month is not impossible.
  WHO DARES,WINS

We miss 100% of the shots we never take.
 

Offline Bakkie

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2008, 02:33:50 pm »
You work for Hustler...... that's my dream job!

Hey if ever the guy leaves that puts all the stars on the tits.. please keep me in-mind  ;)
There are no short cuts to anywhere worth going!
Performance is paramount, niceties only exist if it doesn't affect performance.

Don't rush it, it's helmet time you need, not a destination. Take it easy.
 

Offline Stev0

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2008, 04:30:23 pm »
having worked freelance for papers and mags for the last twenty years and been involved with a couple from the start up here goes.
you will have to have about seven thousand printed before the printers will take on your work,and of course have it distributed.
as we all know the bike dealers wont give you advertising,so you have to go another route,all the guys on the site that are quick to yell ,we support you, make sure they pay upfront for a small advert,no matter what type of business they work in.
they do of course need to sign a twelve month agreement.even its their own business card type advert.
keep the ads at the back,it wont matter if you are advertising teeth cleaning for your pets,just dont put it amongst copy.
you will need to start with about two hundred thousand rand,and be prepared to lose it.

this is an absolute minimum.
rather buy good quality copy and pix from the net than let weekend adventurers take there own pix,god,nothing brings the mag down faster than stationary pix. you have seen the overseas stuff,you need to equal or better it.
we have an abundance of real good talent here in sa,use it,.
it is insanely difficult to get into the cna or large retailer,you need all sorts of gaurantees and you wont get in for at least a year of publication.you can never be late with these guys either.they are ruthless.
remember that the distributor takes his 40% cut before YOU get paid!!!!!
you cannot moonlight and get the mag out,you have to stop your day job.
i recently [may] put a dummy magazine together for the publisher of hustler,as a huge weekly mag just went under,damn forgot its name,it had loads of sport and babes in it!!!!!
anyway c.n.a phoned us and asked us to step in with an equally easy read as they were making money out of the sales of the other mag and were sorry to see it go.
only using local stuff,it took me one whole month to put the dummy together.it consisted of bikes, babes,adventure sport,soccer results,rugby results and news,celeb pix and everything else,it was a monster task .
at that time i was both the editor and photographer of hustler so i had the help of an experienced team of people,c.n.a. rejected it,we think because it lacked british soccer!
anyway that is just an example of how tough it is to get started,
by the way,many guys on this site keep on about an emag,redline motorcycle news which i worked for in the mid nineties has been an emag for years!!!! 
as i was on this mag since the second month,i could tell you about how the advertisers let us down,but you get the picture.
BUT when the horror stories are all said and done it is possible to put out a very good quality mag,distribution is a problem as mail is way to expensive to use now in south africa,but it can be done with a few main pickup points around the country,all the forums would be a good place to start to advertise.
if you have money give it a go,but dont get a second bond to start.
personally i feel that 5000 sales a month is not impossible.
  WHO DARES,WINS



Good words...
 

Offline Etienne2T

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2008, 04:46:38 pm »
Goeie plan!
 

Offline Stev0

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2008, 04:54:22 pm »
lewe jy nog!? Jy kan my feature writer word
 

Offline Buller

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2008, 05:35:45 pm »
Best of luck StevO!  I hope you'll get it right.

However, when I try to visualise a mag that specialises in Dual Purpose bikes and Adv riding, I'm just a little concern on how you'll get interesting stories every month.  Weekend adventurers' stories would become quite dull in the long run.  I'm with sillystunt when talking about stationary pictures.  Action pics are clearly better.
 

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2008, 06:08:25 pm »
as a huge weekly mag just went under,damn forgot its name,it had loads of sport and babes in it!!!!!

My editor buddy Margot, the mag was Zoo.
She now does FHM online.
 

Offline Stev0

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2008, 06:11:13 pm »
i agree 200 percent.

there is not a lot of interest in weekend trips around the block.

However, adventure motorcycling as a lifestyle is another story. a road less travelled everyday. its difficult to put pen to paper when coming up with just ideas. in the long run, you need to publish what others want to read.  

Content can and could not be a problem. There is no way you can fill a magazine with just  reviews... there arent that many adventure bikes available.. and you would run out of content pretty quickly.  I think leisure wheels is a good model for such a type of magazine. Bikes, Camp sites, Bnb's, technical articles(hello lecap - George Lopez voice) Gadgets, maps, route of the month (each province) and so on could turn into an interesting magazine.

Im not too worried about print cost. Yes it will cost a couple of pennies, but in the long run if you can produce a product that everybody will love and enjoy to read .. i think the mission is complete.
 

Offline Stev0

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2008, 06:13:05 pm »
as a huge weekly mag just went under,damn forgot its name,it had loads of sport and babes in it!!!!!

My editor buddy Margot, the mag was Zoo.
She now does FHM online.


Thats a hard knock...

 

Offline Mark Hardy

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2008, 06:26:11 pm »
i agree 200 percent.

there is not a lot of interest in weekend trips around the block.

However, adventure motorcycling as a lifestyle is another story. a road less travelled everyday. its difficult to put pen to paper when coming up with just ideas. in the long run, you need to publish what others want to read.  

Content can and could not be a problem. There is no way you can fill a magazine with just  reviews... there arent that many adventure bikes available.. and you would run out of content pretty quickly.  I think leisure wheels is a good model for such a type of magazine. Bikes, Camp sites, Bnb's, technical articles(hello lecap - George Lopez voice) Gadgets, maps, route of the month (each province) and so on could turn into an interesting magazine.


Why keep the mag only focused on motorcycle adventure riding. Maybe have one trip report done by 4x4 with overland trailer etc, maybe even done with Adventure bikes. Some of us frown on having a 4x4 as back up but I think there are many many families in SA that would like to combine to two modes of overland transport. It can appeal to families that want to share the adventure etc. The 4x4 community in SA is huge and has many companies supplying equipment for 4x4??s, so already you are catering to a larger audience.

The mag could be kept at a 80/20 split towards motorcycles.

Just my 2c
 

Offline Stev0

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2008, 06:39:38 pm »
Mark, Yes brilliant idea. That way the reader content is alot bigger.....

Can this new year come already!
 

Offline Mark Hardy

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2008, 07:06:56 pm »
 :thumleft: see not just an ugly face am I  ;)
 

Offline Boertjie

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2008, 07:57:48 pm »
i agree 200 percent.

there is not a lot of interest in weekend trips around the block.

However, adventure motorcycling as a lifestyle is another story. a road less travelled everyday. its difficult to put pen to paper when coming up with just ideas. in the long run, you need to publish what others want to read.  

Content can and could not be a problem. There is no way you can fill a magazine with just  reviews... there arent that many adventure bikes available.. and you would run out of content pretty quickly.  I think leisure wheels is a good model for such a type of magazine. Bikes, Camp sites, Bnb's, technical articles(hello lecap - George Lopez voice) Gadgets, maps, route of the month (each province) and so on could turn into an interesting magazine.


Why keep the mag only focused on motorcycle adventure riding. Maybe have one trip report done by 4x4 with overland trailer etc, maybe even done with Adventure bikes. Some of us frown on having a 4x4 as back up but I think there are many many families in SA that would like to combine to two modes of overland transport. It can appeal to families that want to share the adventure etc. The 4x4 community in SA is huge and has many companies supplying equipment for 4x4??s, so already you are catering to a larger audience.

The mag could be kept at a 80/20 split towards motorcycles.

Just my 2c



I like the way  you think...


My family for one would fit into that mold... We haev 4 kids... does not fit onto my Varadero that well. It will be a few years till all the kids are out of the nest. Till then, our only weekeends/holidays away where the bike has gone along, is where Lovy drives the Landy and I ride the Vara. From there, it can be play and give everyone  a fair share of the fun... Sometimes it involves everybody getting into the Landy and doing a 4x4 route. This will work for me.

BTW... I am so pissed off with TopBike, that I will subscribe any time to a new publicatin. Go for it.
Dagaty!!!
Boertjie weg.

BMW R1200GS, Honda Varadero XL1000V
 

Grunt

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2008, 08:02:39 pm »
This is a noble idea.

Heed Sillystunt words, and Adventurer's and Citibike's.

Be prepared for months of losses because the breakeven point will keep moving.

And be prepared to really really love your job because a magazine demands no less.

good luck

 

Offline Stev0

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2008, 08:17:43 pm »
Grunt, we (Kirsten and I) currently run a lifestyle tabloid for the blaauwberg (the Blaauwberger)  and believe it when I say... I love me job.

I know all about the demands and sacrifices....


If the idea will work. brilliant!

 

Oppad

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2008, 08:22:00 pm »
Indeed a noble idea, but beware. Weg/Wegry/Wegsleep with English counterparts Go/Drive Out have already cornered the adventure market to the extent that Mooiloop, the Afrikaans stablemate to Getaway had to close down. As Jacko has said he will be involved in establishing more of a DS presence in the Weg/Wegry stable which will take even more of the market.

Also, as Sillystunt, has pointed out distribution is going to be a bugger. A couple of years ago I was involved in an independent startup and while our content was good and the market quite ready, we stumbled across the distribution hurdle. If the big boys don't take you, you're fooked. Citibike is quite right with the figure of 10000 to become viable and the last audited circulation figures of TopBike I saw were around the 8000 mark rather than the figures that are touted about now.

But good luck if you want to take on all of that. There is nothing that will give me more pleasure than see an independent publisher (such as the often wrongfully maligned Simon Fourie) take on the big media companies and win. However don't expect investors to throw money at you. In the past startups like these often worked - not by making money from day one but by stablishing something that readers want in a relatively short time and then selling the title to a big media company. Now they're shutting down titles, not buying them up.