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Offline durtseeker

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2008, 07:32:13 pm »
Die meeste van ons gee nie om om te betaal vir 'n ander magazine as daar net 1 artikel oor DS bikes in is nie, so ek is seker ons sal betaal vir 'n magazine wat net oor DS bikes gaan.

Seker dit gaan werk!
Good luck
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of a memory filled with guts and glory"
 

Offline Stev0

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2008, 08:00:50 pm »
dis amazing om sulke support en motivation te kry van julle af. Makes it all worthwhile dreaming.

 

Offline redbikejohn

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2008, 12:29:56 am »
Hi there. Just back from another holiday in SA. I found Topbike for the first time and thought it was quite good although I wasn't keen on the cruiser articles. I think SA is crying out for an adventure bike mag. In the UK the adventure market is the only sector that has seen a growth despite the recession.
I always try to find Enduro mag while in SA as well but it seams harder to find. Bike SA is a joke and always has been. I grew up reading it and it was crap then and still is. Road and Track back in the day was a good mag. Anyway back to your idea ?? if you are prepared to lose everything you invest - then go for it. Don??t take that wrong, I mean if you do lose it and can still keep your roof over your head then why not? But I think the saying ?? from small acorns grow mighty oaks? is the way to go. Start local and small and it??ll grow if it??s good and interesting. To blow x amount on a full-scale assault on the big boys is doomed for failure. I??ll take out an ezine sub from here the UK if it get off the ground.
I have my own little indulgence in my website. I can pretend to be a jorno in my own little world. Still it gets 80 K hits per month now, so maybe a website might be somewhere for you to start?
www.redbikejohn.com check it out
 

Offline lecap

Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2008, 07:57:44 am »
Currently unemployed part time hobby journalist looking for job. Preferably technical articles. Will work for petrol.

;D
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Offline Jacko

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2008, 10:59:03 am »
Indeed a noble idea, but beware. Weg/Wegry/Wegsleep with English counterparts Go/Drive Out have already cornered the adventure market to the extent that Mooiloop, the Afrikaans stablemate to Getaway had to close down. As Jacko has said he will be involved in establishing more of a DS presence in the Weg/Wegry stable which will take even more of the market.

Also, as Sillystunt, has pointed out distribution is going to be a bugger. A couple of years ago I was involved in an independent startup and while our content was good and the market quite ready, we stumbled across the distribution hurdle. If the big boys don't take you, you're fooked. Citibike is quite right with the figure of 10000 to become viable and the last audited circulation figures of TopBike I saw were around the 8000 mark rather than the figures that are touted about now.

Jan, those figures are anything but new. Check the last ABC period - never less than 10 000, nudging 13 000. Why? Because of the DS content.

In the past, with 160 pages and massive UK content, it only once or twice went past 10 000. Why? Because it was broad, general interest, with a slant towards knees-down action. But that's what 2Wheels was doing too. So nothing new in the market.

The DS content in TopBike was different for many reasons - as most of you know. It was real adventures by real people and not sponsored jollies. This is in line with some of the top adventure magazines in the world, ie Outside and, on a local level, Weg. Real adventures cannot, by their very definition, be accompanied by beautiful staged photography. That's something we left for certain parts of the mag. I always thought that it would be obvious to most people what the inherent difference between reader generated adventure material and in-house tests and features would be. Reading some posts I obviously overestimated some peoples knowledge and insight.

The info carried by TopBike was of a practical and useful nature. And there was a clear understanding of the differences between road test, comparative test, feature, narrative, adventure and useful info. Not that this is rocket science, but all good titles adhere to these basic fundamentals of journalism.

Like already said repeatedly, TopBike's content was never its weak point - the lack of advertising was.

Coming back to SteveO's question, I think Sot and SillyStunt have basically summed it up: It's going to be hard.

And then there's that other, small problem - where are you going to source good copy? Do you have journalistic training or experience? That is, after all, why people will buy your intended mag. Otherwise it's just another BSA.

Anyway, my rantings may just sound like that of a sour has been. Do what you want.
"The test of a man is not the forum nor the field; not the marketplace nor the amen corner, but at his own fireside. There he lays aside his mask, and you may judge whether he be imp or angel, king or cur, hero or humbug." -  William Cowper Brann
 

Offline the_wes

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2008, 11:04:10 am »
Indeed a noble idea, but beware. Weg/Wegry/Wegsleep with English counterparts Go/Drive Out have already cornered the adventure market to the extent that Mooiloop, the Afrikaans stablemate to Getaway had to close down. As Jacko has said he will be involved in establishing more of a DS presence in the Weg/Wegry stable which will take even more of the market.

Also, as Sillystunt, has pointed out distribution is going to be a bugger. A couple of years ago I was involved in an independent startup and while our content was good and the market quite ready, we stumbled across the distribution hurdle. If the big boys don't take you, you're fooked. Citibike is quite right with the figure of 10000 to become viable and the last audited circulation figures of TopBike I saw were around the 8000 mark rather than the figures that are touted about now.

Jan, those figures are anything but new. Check the last ABC period - never less than 10 000, nudging 13 000. Why? Because of the DS content.

In the past, with 160 pages and massive UK content, it only once or twice went past 10 000. Why? Because it was broad, general interest, with a slant towards knees-down action. But that's what 2Wheels was doing too. So nothing new in the market.

The DS content in TopBike was different for many reasons - as most of you know. It was real adventures by real people and not sponsored jollies. This is in line with some of the top adventure magazines in the world, ie Outside and, on a local level, Weg. Real adventures cannot, by their very definition, be accompanied by beautiful staged photography. That's something we left for certain parts of the mag. I always thought that it would be obvious to most people what the inherent difference between reader generated adventure material and in-house tests and features would be. Reading some posts I obviously overestimated some peoples knowledge and insight.

The info carried by TopBike was of a practical and useful nature. And there was a clear understanding of the differences between road test, comparative test, feature, narrative, adventure and useful info. Not that this is rocket science, but all good titles adhere to these basic fundamentals of journalism.

Like already said repeatedly, TopBike's content was never its weak point - the lack of advertising was.

Coming back to SteveO's question, I think Sot and SillyStunt have basically summed it up: It's going to be hard.

And then there's that other, small problem - where are you going to source good copy? Do you have journalistic training or experience? That is, after all, why people will buy your intended mag. Otherwise it's just another BSA.

Anyway, my rantings may just sound like that of a sour has been. Do what you want.

i thought you were on holiday?  :pot:
 

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2008, 12:36:38 pm »
Indeed a noble idea, but beware. Weg/Wegry/Wegsleep with English counterparts Go/Drive Out have already cornered the adventure market to the extent that Mooiloop, the Afrikaans stablemate to Getaway had to close down. As Jacko has said he will be involved in establishing more of a DS presence in the Weg/Wegry stable which will take even more of the market.

Also, as Sillystunt, has pointed out distribution is going to be a bugger. A couple of years ago I was involved in an independent startup and while our content was good and the market quite ready, we stumbled across the distribution hurdle. If the big boys don't take you, you're fooked. Citibike is quite right with the figure of 10000 to become viable and the last audited circulation figures of TopBike I saw were around the 8000 mark rather than the figures that are touted about now.

Jan, those figures are anything but new. Check the last ABC period - never less than 10 000, nudging 13 000. Why? Because of the DS content.


My apologies then Jacko, but you will understand if a bit of skepticism remains, given the documented incidences of rather creative accounting regarding some other titles (the thing is, editorial staff often don't even know about it until some other publication writes about it). However, having said that, I will readily give you and TopBike credit for boosting recent circulation with the ds content. You did it, well done.

Don't feel too bad or lonesome.,I will probably find myself among a whole bunch of retrenchees at naspers come end of January. My demographic profile and lack of strategic stature is just too perfect to remain employed in the current wave of "restructuring". At the risk of sounding like Oprah, I actually don't worry that much - this is an opportunity, not a problem. No, starting up a new magazine with pension money and a meagre bronze handshake in these uncertain times is definitely not part of my future plans. Fortunately, once I put my mind to it again I'm probably still one of the best reporters out there. Humility is a bitch and I will gladly write for any start-up, strictly C.O.D. of course. And a merry Christmas to all of you, may the new year be fun for all of us.
 

Offline Jacko

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #67 on: December 24, 2008, 12:31:30 am »
Indeed a noble idea, but beware. Weg/Wegry/Wegsleep with English counterparts Go/Drive Out have already cornered the adventure market to the extent that Mooiloop, the Afrikaans stablemate to Getaway had to close down. As Jacko has said he will be involved in establishing more of a DS presence in the Weg/Wegry stable which will take even more of the market.

Also, as Sillystunt, has pointed out distribution is going to be a bugger. A couple of years ago I was involved in an independent startup and while our content was good and the market quite ready, we stumbled across the distribution hurdle. If the big boys don't take you, you're fooked. Citibike is quite right with the figure of 10000 to become viable and the last audited circulation figures of TopBike I saw were around the 8000 mark rather than the figures that are touted about now.

Jan, those figures are anything but new. Check the last ABC period - never less than 10 000, nudging 13 000. Why? Because of the DS content.


My apologies then Jacko, but you will understand if a bit of skepticism remains, given the documented incidences of rather creative accounting regarding some other titles (the thing is, editorial staff often don't even know about it until some other publication writes about it). However, having said that, I will readily give you and TopBike credit for boosting recent circulation with the ds content. You did it, well done.

Don't feel too bad or lonesome.,I will probably find myself among a whole bunch of retrenchees at naspers come end of January. My demographic profile and lack of strategic stature is just too perfect to remain employed in the current wave of "restructuring". At the risk of sounding like Oprah, I actually don't worry that much - this is an opportunity, not a problem. No, starting up a new magazine with pension money and a meagre bronze handshake in these uncertain times is definitely not part of my future plans. Fortunately, once I put my mind to it again I'm probably still one of the best reporters out there. Humility is a bitch and I will gladly write for any start-up, strictly C.O.D. of course. And a merry Christmas to all of you, may the new year be fun for all of us.

I wonder if the Einsteins responsible for the R1.6 billion Educor own-goal have been brought to book. Stupid question! Promotion time! What did " the Grinch" say the other day in a meeting? "We all make mistakes ... " Ja fucking right, it's just that in some companies you actually get fired for losing billions.

Ons moet 'n dop gaan saamdrink binne die volgende paar dae, dan praat ek 'n bietjie uit die loopgrawe uit. Fassinerende kak vir enige denkende mens. Gelukkig is ek vir die volgende jaar of wat verlos van die semi-staatsdiens wereld waarvoor ek die laaste 9 jaar van my lewe my ballas gebust het.

Ek gaan 'n skryffabriek word, kite surf, adventure rides doen en ons tuin in befok mooi shape kry. Fok the Man. Hy's Beelzebub se bitch.  >:D
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 12:32:28 am by Jacko »
"The test of a man is not the forum nor the field; not the marketplace nor the amen corner, but at his own fireside. There he lays aside his mask, and you may judge whether he be imp or angel, king or cur, hero or humbug." -  William Cowper Brann
 

Offline Adventurer

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #68 on: December 24, 2008, 08:50:17 am »
Eish.....all this agro......you CT guys are supposed to be so chilled...... :pot: :biggrin:

Jacko, it's the corporate world.....work for yourself, it's far more interesting, also nice to have the choice to take someone's shit or not... :biggrin:
If you can keep your head in the midst of all this confusion, you don't understand the situation!
 

Offline Etienne2T

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2008, 11:29:12 pm »
So . . . Where to now?
 

Offline MellowJo

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2009, 12:41:07 pm »
My 5 cents ......

1. There will always be a place for printed mags, many people predicted the end of newspapers & mags when www arrived and they are still around ?..even if you have an online version running parallel

2. I agree with some of the others above, Content is more important than price

3. Don??t make it free, even if the full price goes to the seller, it will ensure that you get a true reflection of the value of what you are doing.

4. I would try the more unconventional route of distribution via subscription and smaller non-group distribution points in major areas, (i.e. not the FNA agencies) and rely heavily on the www for distribution news ??Get your new DS Mag at the following outlets now !!!? Maybe cafes next to major bike shops ?

I used to subscribe to ??CAR? magazine. The price was never an issue, but the content, i.e. pricy cars that very few average guys can afford, eventually made me give up my subscription. I still buy the mag from time to time, and use old copies to check out a road test when I want to buy an old car ??.

I did subscribe to TB only a few months ago because I liked the content and the balance between pro and amateur reporting and mix of road test, ride report, new routes, technical, places to stay etc.  ??. There is a lot of good example to follow there ....
Don't worry, be happy ! Don't take yourself so seriously !!
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Offline Stev0

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2009, 05:48:20 pm »
Magazine is a go, spoke to my print house and its going to work.

Although the first 3 months will only be to the western cape.

Starting with a distro of 5000 copies + online flash and Pdf version.
Cover price @ R10

84 pages full colour and gloss.

We will concentrate purely on adventure /ds riding / off roading / over landing and outdoor activities.


Im moerova excited.

We would need contributors, so please pm me if you feel you can contribute.

Guys outside the province, please let me know if you would like a copy and i would gladly post it to you.


Title name.

Adventure magazine, straight to the point.




 

Oppad

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2009, 05:51:41 pm »
Hey, congratulations on a brave decision and best of luck!
 

Offline Plothond

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2009, 05:52:12 pm »
Well done

I'll take a copy for sure
I used to be indecisive, but I'm not so sure anymore

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Offline Oetie

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #74 on: January 07, 2009, 05:58:56 pm »
Well done, and good luck :thumleft:
Live life to the fullest!!
 

Offline BMWPE

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2009, 06:06:39 pm »
Well done

I'll take a copy for sure

+1
Rallye
 

Offline michnus

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2009, 06:08:33 pm »
Bedonnerd, all of the best! :thumleft:

SA can handle a dedicated DS mag.

Offline Etienne2T

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2009, 06:42:34 pm »
Lekke mon!
Laat weet waar ek kan help ne?
 

Offline Mark Hardy

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2009, 08:24:43 pm »
Well done

I'll take a copy for sure

+1

 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:

Farking A1 Stevo,

I'll take two please. Thanks

Well Done.

 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
 

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Re: Adventure/Ds Magazines
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2009, 08:31:15 pm »
Shite, Mark got there first - but yeah, we're in.

Good for you - we'll support you in any way we can.  Shite, you must be so proud... :thumleft: