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Offline Allegro

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Causes for snaking
« on: September 28, 2021, 07:19:29 am »
Howzit Dogs,

Ons our recent trip to Verneukpan I noticed (well you fkn could not miss it...) my bike starts snaking on 157km/h (GPS = 150km/h)

The only difference on setup to prev trip was that I now have 2 similar size panniers (exhaust side protruding way more than the original KTM box), and suspension set to rider + luggage

Hercules recon it is because of the one pannier sticking way out more than the other, BakgatJaco recon it is the Pirelli Scorpion Rally STR (he had same prev on his BMW, and also snaking at 160km/h)
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Offline Mikie

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2021, 07:55:04 am »
I have the Scorpions, the only time I have felt any sort of snaking is when my front tyre isnt hard enough. (At Speed of course)
But I would still suspect tyres as the main culprit
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 07:59:06 am by Mikie »
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Offline Frankrzzgp

Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2021, 08:07:13 am »
Allegro, ek het selfde bike en tyres as jy, maar ek kan nie sÍ dat ek dit al gevoel het nie, bygesÍ ek het wel nog nie 1up met luggage so gery om presies dieselfde vergelyking te maak nie

Kan jy vinniger as daai spoed gaan of raak dit erger as jy vinniger gaan?
 

Offline Allegro

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2021, 10:58:56 am »
Allegro, ek het selfde bike en tyres as jy, maar ek kan nie sÍ dat ek dit al gevoel het nie, bygesÍ ek het wel nog nie 1up met luggage so gery om presies dieselfde vergelyking te maak nie

Kan jy vinniger as daai spoed gaan of raak dit erger as jy vinniger gaan?

Ek wil voel dit is die nuwe panniers wat ek op het, een kant vang meer "wind" as die ander.
Dan ook is dit die 1ste keer dat ek met rider + luggage setting op suspension ry.

Ja, dit word erger hoe hoer die spoed.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 11:01:48 am by Allegro »
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Offline Allegro

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2021, 10:59:37 am »
I have the Scorpions, the only time I have felt any sort of snaking is when my front tyre isnt hard enough. (At Speed of course)
But I would still suspect tyres as the main culprit

Was running on 2.8bar front and 2.6bar rear
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Offline Mikie

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2021, 02:19:33 pm »
I have the Scorpions, the only time I have felt any sort of snaking is when my front tyre isnt hard enough. (At Speed of course)
But I would still suspect tyres as the main culprit

Was running on 2.8bar front and 2.6bar rear

That rules my theory out then  :sip:
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Offline RobC

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2021, 02:26:27 pm »
I have the Scorpions, the only time I have felt any sort of snaking is when my front tyre isnt hard enough. (At Speed of course)
But I would still suspect tyres as the main culprit

Was running on 2.8bar front and 2.6bar rear

That rules my theory out then  :sip:
Harder tyre should be the rear, not the front. Back tyre softer, starts weaving... try it... :sip:
 

Offline Roadhawg

Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2021, 02:29:47 pm »
I have the Scorpions, the only time I have felt any sort of snaking is when my front tyre isnt hard enough. (At Speed of course)
But I would still suspect tyres as the main culprit

Was running on 2.8bar front and 2.6bar rear

That rules my theory out then  :sip:
Harder tyre should be the rear, not the front. Back tyre softer, starts weaving... try it... :sip:

I was gonna say, should be the other way round really.


Remember panniers add wind resistance putting more weight on the rear, on top of already more weight on the rear to it being loaded (taking lots of weight off the front at speed).  We had a guy on a trip on a 800GS that was doing exactly that.  Stiffened up the rear preload and it went away almost immediately.


But I mean, it could be any number of things, and any combination of any number of those things!
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Offline dookie

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2021, 03:43:45 pm »
Haal die hangkaste af en gaan sleep op die N4 af teen die selfde spoed en settings.
 
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Offline Allegro

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2021, 07:36:58 pm »
Haal die hangkaste af en gaan sleep op die N4 af teen die selfde spoed en settings.

Wat ek wel gaan try.
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Offline RobC

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2021, 08:36:49 pm »
I have the Scorpions, the only time I have felt any sort of snaking is when my front tyre isnt hard enough. (At Speed of course)
But I would still suspect tyres as the main culprit

Was running on 2.8bar front and 2.6bar rear

That rules my theory out then  :sip:
Harder tyre should be the rear, not the front. Back tyre softer, starts weaving... try it... :sip:

I was gonna say, should be the other way round really.


Remember panniers add wind resistance putting more weight on the rear, on top of already more weight on the rear to it being loaded (taking lots of weight off the front at speed).  We had a guy on a trip on a 800GS that was doing exactly that.  Stiffened up the rear preload and it went away almost immediately.


But I mean, it could be any number of things, and any combination of any number of those things!
The softer tyre generates more grip and tries to outpace the front... snaking leads to headshake and a highside... ask any MotoGP rider... :sip:
 

Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2021, 08:51:02 pm »
Kawasaki's GTR1400 is a 250kph tourer, but with panniers fitted it starts weaving at 200.

 

Offline RobC

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2021, 08:53:44 pm »
Kawasaki's GTR1400 is a 250kph tourer, but with panniers fitted it starts weaving at 200.
I think most bikes never get tested in a wind tunnel with panniers. :biggrin:
 

Offline Frankrzzgp

Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2021, 08:05:03 am »
Allegro, ek het selfde bike en tyres as jy, maar ek kan nie sÍ dat ek dit al gevoel het nie, bygesÍ ek het wel nog nie 1up met luggage so gery om presies dieselfde vergelyking te maak nie

Kan jy vinniger as daai spoed gaan of raak dit erger as jy vinniger gaan?

Ek wil voel dit is die nuwe panniers wat ek op het, een kant vang meer "wind" as die ander.
Dan ook is dit die 1ste keer dat ek met rider + luggage setting op suspension ry.

Ja, dit word erger hoe hoer die spoed.

As dit erger raak met spoed kan dit dalk daardie panniers wees, maar jou pressures lyk ook vir my dalk bietjie culprit, myne is voor 2.2 en agter 2.8

As jy wil kan ons bietjie gaan saam ry, dan kan ons sien of die twee hulself dieselfde gedra, dalk makliker om so iets raak te sien...
 
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Offline BuRP

Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2021, 09:21:38 am »
Panniers...... go well with big heavy tourers on roadtyres innit?
Like Goldwings, Harleys and Kawa 1400's.....
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Offline Sabre

Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2021, 07:25:52 pm »
My 750GT Suzuki used to start snaking when the swing arm bushes were worn
Fitting new bushes sorted the problem
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Offline Bundu

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2021, 08:13:51 pm »
I would bring front down to 2.4 and rear to 2.8 and try with pillion+luggage setting
 
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Offline pittbull

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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2021, 08:41:30 pm »
I had the same on my 990 but without panniers and just the top box.
I replaced tyres, neck bearings, 5.6NM front springs and adjusted the rake with no luck.
Done wheel balancing multiple times and still the same. After I changed the front springs the problem shifted from 150-160 km/h to 180km/h.
Lastly I adjusted the handle bars slightly towards the back and everything is sorted now with or without top box.
Maybe some of the above can work for you.
 
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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2021, 08:21:15 am »
Ek het ook die side panniers gehad wat die een aan die xhaust kant so uit staan. Ook van 160 km/h 'n ligte snake opgetel. Het nou maar die KTM panniers ge order.
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Re: Causes for snaking
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2021, 09:42:48 am »
Are your tyres evenly worn? 1050/90 1190 1290 doesn't like worn rear with good front. I guess the harder front than rear will have the same effect too.
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