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Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2009, 08:31:12 am »
If you go to www.gutenberg.org , there are a whole bunch of downloadable books on the boer war:

Etext-No.  Author Title Language
12427   Campbell, Robert Granville Neutral Rights and Obligations in the Anglo-Boer War English
23692   Creswicke, Louis South Africa and the Transvaal War, Vol. 1 (of 6)
From the Foundation of Cape Colony to the Boer Ultimatum
of 9th Oct. 1899 English
3069   Doyle, Arthur Conan, Sir, 1859-1930 The Great Boer War English
27897   Fenn, George Manville, 1831-1909
Boucher, W. [Illustrator]
 The Kopje Garrison
A Story of the Boer War English
19895   Fisher, Sydney George, 1856-1927 The American Revolution and the Boer War, An Open Letter to Mr. Charles Francis Adams on His Pamphlet "The Confederacy and the Transvaal" English
15972   Jacson, M. The Record of a Regiment of the Line
Being a Regimental History of the 1st Battalion Devonshire
Regiment during the Boer War 1899-1902 English
15561   Mann, Arthur M. The Boer in Peace and War English
15106   Thomas, C. H. Origin of the Anglo-Boer War Revealed (2nd ed.)
The Conspiracy of the 19th Century Unmasked English
25049   Viljoen, Ben J. (Ben Johannis), 1868-1917
Van Breda, P. [Illustrator]
 My Reminiscences of the Anglo-Boer War English
23875   Young, Filson, 1876-1938 The Relief of Mafeking
How it Was Accomplished by Mahon's Flying Column; with an Account of Some Earlier Episodes in the Boer War of 1899-1900 English
15699    A Handbook of the Boer War
With General Map of South Africa and 18 Sketch Maps and Plans English
 

Offline malgat (RIP)

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2009, 09:41:48 am »
wooo hoooo,,,im really getting sucked into this history stuff,,,,its totally amazing

one rides past places without realising the history behind it,,,,did u know the british bought a huge piece of land from nelmapius and because it had lotsa trees for firewood and used it for a concentration camp,,,,over 8000 women and children died there (in one year) from dysentry and malnutrition,,,the tents were skimpy and we all know how cold it is at nite in Irene,,,irene btw means mercy,,,inside this camp they had a barbebwire enclosure used as a "strafkamp" where women were stripped and left naked for 24 hours,,,history tells of a certain woman who gave birth in that strafkamp to a dead infant,,

but reading on one cant help thinking that a whole generation of people (28 000 women and children) died in the camps,,,,mostly white, some black and coloured as well,,was it neccesary to go to war???,,,,,the anglo boer war was a battle between two very staunch and proud leaders namely Paul Kruger and Cecil John Rhodes/Kitchner,,,both wanted the same thing and wouldnt compromise the other his space in this country

part and parcel of the concentration camps every farm was burnt down to the ground, livestock confiscated, implements destroyed and all grazing burnt to ultimately destroy the boer livelyhood,,,this "scorched earth" way of war was fought over the whole of transvaal and free state,,,cape, natal and botswana (betchuanaland) already belonged to the british,,,the sea ways were under british command and arms and supplies for the boers had to come from mozambique and sudwest,,,just in this effort is a million odd stories of people riding transport,, facing the bush, animals,elements and mozzies

but in feedback on my thread i've got so much info on he Jameson Raid that i should start it as this was the start of the war,,,,all the other battles and sieges happened on account of this totally failure of a raid to overcome Johannesburg,,,Dr Jameson wanted guts and glory and without the go-ahead from Brittain he went ass over heel on with his quest,,,made lotsa mistakes along the way,,,bullshitted people along the way until the boers stopped him at doornkop (outside krugersdorp) and killed 58 of his men,,,he was arrested, england stated he went on his own accord and was convicted to hanging,,,later it converted to 15 years and again later to 15 months, thereafter he was released and became a  bigshot in the government (sound familiar????)

anyway i've found zillions of books on the war very cheap at some exclusive books and have found lotsa info from the far-right websites,,,,putting them against the google results and people like arthur conan doyle makes for some interesting view points,,,

i'm rambling, i know.....but starting at the jameson raid  there are zillions of stories quite recent (1900's) from there onwards,,,i intend reading about them,,,im reading a diary of a soldier and its stunningly funny and interesting,,,lotsa pissups and pilfering the neighborhood,,,these guys remind me so much of the wilddogs forum people,,also i see a whole new set of riding reports based around visiting the sites,,,re enacting the situation and so kinda riding in the tracks of history

ive also found some great info and the logistics behind every great battle (mostly natal) and also  in detail everything that happened at bloodriver,,,making for some great readings ,,,and appreciation

imagine we get the jameson brothers on their KTM's armed with paintball guns and we get the klr, at, yz,xr 's together and form a lager at doornkop at the jameson raid monument and re enact the battle,,,,afterwards we tie up plottie, funacide, poppipants and their cronies and feed them jameson whiskey while groenie smokes his pipe and the rest of us have obs in coffee mugs
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Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2009, 09:56:58 am »
There is also a lot of early Tswana stone kraals all over the magaliesberg, the one's in the pic are close to my place and can be accessed by bike. The stonework is quite extensive and the rings you see in the image are about 50m across.

Offline malgat (RIP)

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2009, 10:07:49 am »
thanx db9,,,

that gutenburg site is fantastic,,also the google arials,,,,

if i wasnt so damm lazy (busy on the forum and reading history) i could scan the "planning riding" threads and furnish them with some researched related history and try and add to the ride and experience by bringing history into it,,,,but then i do drink jack daniels,,,hmmm,,,,i wonder if he was tjommies with jameson

must say those kraals look like lekka bosberaad sites
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Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2009, 10:10:30 am »
If you like a rock for a pillow!

So when are we going to do this thing? This weekend is tech day etc etc, next weekend is possible? The following weekend I am away. I would suggest we meet at the museum in Magalies on a Sunday morning and then decide where to go from there... Just need to decide when.

Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2009, 07:50:25 am »
I bumped into Robin last night. He is keen on the idea and wants to put together a whole tour. This is great news because he can get us access onto private land to see some of this stuff. He suggested that we coud have a look at the battle of Nooitgedagt. There is a road that goes up to that beacon on top of the maintain where you can see the whole story. Also the battle of Naauwpoort where there is a monument and things, and then also bushmen paintings, iron age stuff etc. He will also come a long to tell us what's what. Robin knows everything about the area. If someone spat on the side of the road from an oxwagon, Robin knows what colour the ox was.  :thumleft:

As for a date, I would suggest either Sun 14th or 28th, or the 5th or 14th of July.

Offline malgat (RIP)

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2009, 09:12:12 am »
i would suggest the june the 28th,,,,that first choice is slap bang in a long weekend,,

so my vote goes for 28th or thereafter....

this sounds really lekker,,,

im busy reading the reminisicents of a soldier in the anglo boer but yesterday someone gave me the diary of jamesons batman??? wooo hooo,,,,now i first have to finish the one book before starting the next,,,,so yes i'll be ready with my jameson and naauwpoort prep by the 28th,,,i have lotsa info on jameson and some very moffie looking photos and paintings of the man,,,,,wooo hoooo ...

with the jameson photos in my possesion i'm trying to see which of the three jameson gang looks like him and around who i can build my story,,,,plottie, funacide or poppipants,,,the plot thickens,,,stay tuned

this is going to be great
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Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2009, 09:18:15 am »
Orraight lets strike while the iron is hot and do the 28th. I'll get back to you with exact details, but for the moment meet at the museum at 'Out of Africa' at 9 on next Sunday morning and we'll take it from there.

Offline malgat (RIP)

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2009, 09:22:17 am »
Orraight lets strike while the iron is hot and do the 28th. I'll get back to you with exact details, but for the moment meet at the museum at 'Out of Africa' at 9 on next Sunday morning and we'll take it from there.

oops,,,this weekend and the next is out for me,,,,sorrie,,,how about the 21st???

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Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2009, 09:28:07 am »
No can do, I am away that weekend. July 12?

Offline malgat (RIP)

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2009, 09:42:07 am »
ok done,,,,

lets recap,,,,,

robins tour the 28th june

visit to the museum "out of africa" on the 12th july
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Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2009, 09:45:43 am »
Now I'm confused? Museum is the starting point for the tour as there are maps etc for a bit of background. I though you couldn't do the 28th?

Offline malgat (RIP)

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2009, 09:51:02 am »
Now I'm confused? Museum is the starting point for the tour as there are maps etc for a bit of background. I though you couldn't do the 28th?

i can do the 28th defnitely,,,,

its this weekend 7th june and the next 14 th june that i cant make,,,

but 28th suits me fine,,,,

so we on for 28th?????

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Offline KiLRoy

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2009, 09:51:19 am »
I'm in!!!!
 

Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2009, 09:54:52 am »
Done. 28th it is then.

Offline malgat (RIP)

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2009, 10:07:59 am »
Done. 28th it is then.

sharp shoot,,,,

i wil start a new thread with some background info around jameson,,,

 and the battle of nauwpoort and nooitgedacht

i wonder if we can include a visit to jameson monument in doornkop as well,,,some lekker gravel roads there????
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Offline DeepBass9

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2009, 10:12:41 am »
OK, already started a thread for the trip.

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2009, 01:04:54 pm »
I'll keep the 28th open too !!!
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Offline Copernicus

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2009, 10:58:52 am »
Malgat, this is a great idea and I think to combine a roadtrip with something other than beer and stof is quite novel.

I was posted to Canada during the centenary commemorations of the Anglo Boer War, or the South African War, as it is known in that part of the world, and was closely involved with several ceremonies.  The Canadians have several regiments that were formed during the ABW and almost all of them still exist today, many with exemplary combat records in the Great War, WWII and other parts of the world.  Sadly, from the South African side, the ABW was fought from the kitchen, so to speak, and the soldiers returned to scorched farms, graves of wives and children and a political dispensation for the defeated.  None of them felt like establishing regiments that would continue and leave a legacy.

The Canadians asked a lot about partnering with South African regiments from the ABW, as a gesture of friendship, 100 years after the last shots were fired.  Unfortunately that was not possible.  However, as was the case with most wars of that time, many young men left their country of origin with the glint of adventure in their eyes, only to become casualties of war, most of them without seeing even one battle, but the victims of disease and other misfortune that claimed so many in this country of ours.  But their names appear on gravestones all over the routes of the war and it is this that people are very interested in.  Many wish to come and retrace the footsteps of a family member, albeit a hundred years later.

This is not quite the same as doing a bike tour and visiting historic sites inSouth Africa, but it is along a similar vein.  There are several places in Canada where sites were erected in commemoration of the ABW and these places are kept alive by people who have a keen interest in their country's history and heritage.  I certainly have it on my agenda to visit these sites when I get back to SA and the fact that many of them are in remote locations, somewhere along a dirt road, is an added bonus for a "loose association" of guys and gals like the Wilddogs.  Therefore, Malgat, congrats with the idea.  I think it is highly commendable and a just cause.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 05:07:19 pm by Copernicus »
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Offline malgat (RIP)

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Re: gravelroads and history
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2009, 11:21:33 am »
thanx dude,,,,

responses like these somma make me feel better,,,,im sure if we played our cards right helll we could arrange a bike trip for your canadians friends,,,,bring in blazes and he'll p0ut it together

but yes,,,your right,,,just because this war kinda sneaked past us at school doesnt mean it didnt matter,,,of course it mattered,,,it matter a moer of a lot and each and every safrican must feel proud that we have this history,,,

some days we are made to feel like the skunks of the world,,,but by reliving and re sparking our history we need to all feel better about ourselves,,,damm we are a great nation and a great history,,,

lets symbolize and understand the past and the future wil be easy,,,,

also lets face it,,,there are some great stories out there,,,talk about schalk lourens and everybody 's eyes light up,,,,but really there are zillions of stories,,,somewhere out in the veld are some graves,,,i saw an article the other day of two graves just somma nowhere somewhere in the veld,,,but the story behind it was there were these two neighbours who didnt want to take part in the war and when the brits arrived they were forced to join the brits,,,but they decline and they were told they were then gonna be shot,,,,so the farmers told the brits f,,,off and took them out on there favourite spot overlooking the farms and asked to be shot and buried right there,,,which did happen,,,those graves are still there,,,in the middle of a mielie land

thats stories you wont see on tv,,,,you need to go there probably on gravel with your bike and then ask the locals about what happened here,,,,our country is riddeled with stories waiting to be told,,,waiting to be uncovered and made public

thats why i believe the ultimate bike ride is one we dont plan,,,we take it one mile by mile,,,we stop in the dorpies and meet the people and scratch around for the stories,,,graveyards, street names, dorpie names,,,can you imagine the stories around pelgrims rest,,,,following the spoors of the dorsland trekker,,hell even the great trek,,,following the stories of moffat and livingstone, etc etc etc

can u see the ultimate bike ride,,,or am i losing it???
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