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Author Topic: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM  (Read 4446 times)

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Offline the_wes

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Re: Das Zero Emission Motorcycle von KTM.
« Reply #100 on: March 24, 2010, 08:17:32 am »
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/gallery.php

Check the videos... sounds like my scalectrix set  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
 

Offline the_wes

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #101 on: March 24, 2010, 08:21:35 am »
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/gallery.php

Check the videos... sounds like my scalectrix set  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

can we merge these threads into 1 electric bike thread?
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=47015.new#new
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #102 on: March 24, 2010, 08:24:44 am »
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/gallery.php

Check the videos... sounds like my scalectrix set  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

can we merge these threads into 1 electric bike thread?
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=47015.new#new

already done

<edit: topics merged. Can members please post relevant info in relevant topics. Yes, the_wes, that means you too>
 

Offline RobC

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2010, 08:24:53 am »
Ja eet ees becoming confusink... :imaposer:
 

Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #104 on: March 24, 2010, 08:26:29 am »
Starting at: $7,495.00  :eek7:

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1
That is crazy!

You can understand why, though. New technology, low volume production, etc.
This is why the Prius never really took off, none of these manufacturers have factored in the real costs of these technologies and the public needs to know that this is very expensive and very hard on the environment due to the exotic materials involved. Lithium is dangerous! as are most of the materials used in modern high capacity batteries.
Not only that the materials are scarce as well, Peru is the mains source for Lithium and is thinking of limiting the export... that will drive prices up and make these so called eco-friendly forms of transport even more expensive.
Sometimes the tried and tested simple technology is the better option... CO2 is used bt trees by the way... :mwink:

The batteries used are landfill rated even in California where they are very strict about these things. Can't be that dangerous then...
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Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #105 on: March 24, 2010, 08:30:20 am »
RobC, your comments are valid for most EV's, but that is exactly what the guys at Zero are trying to work through.

From Zero:
"Electricity is a very clean and efficient form of energy. Although there is some pollution associated with the production of electricity, a Zero motorcycle will produce less than one-eighth of the CO2 pollution per mile at the power plant than a gas powered motorcycle. It will also produce 1/100th of the smog causing nitrous oxides."

"Zero is the only EV manufacturer to use a revolutionary lithium-ion technology that is completely non-toxic. Unlike our competitors, a Zero power pack contains no toxic metals such as cobalt, nickel, lead or mercury. They are so clean, they are rated for land-fill disposal in the US, Canada and Europe. They are also completely recyclable. "
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Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #106 on: March 24, 2010, 08:39:34 am »
How about a little comparison of costs for interest sake?

Anyone here with a 250 plastic? The info that we would need:
- List price new
- Average price for a service
- Service intervals (hours)

1) What does servicing a Zero-X entail?
2) Intervals?
3) Price of consumables?
4) Price of spares?

1) Technically you don't have to service a Zero. There are a few wearing parts though.
2) No intervals. No loss of warranty when you don't service with the dealership. Just replace the wearing parts when needed.
3,4) Wearing parts are brake pads, tires, chain and sprockets. Comparative to the same on other bikes.

No filters, oil or regular services means nice savings.
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Offline growweblaar

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2010, 08:45:06 am »
1) Technically you don't have to service a Zero. There are a few wearing parts though.
2) No intervals. No loss of warranty when you don't service with the dealership. Just replace the wearing parts when needed.
3,4) Wearing parts are brake pads, tires, chain and sprockets. Comparative to the same on other bikes.

No filters, oil or regular services means nice savings.

And the motor itself? I know good electric motors last a long time, but what is its life expectancy?
 

Offline RobC

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2010, 08:49:04 am »
Done a bit of homework on this whole green eco friendly issue and a lot of it makes sense BUT some of the claims are just not true. One of them is on how "clean" electricity is compared to hydrocarbon and this is where they fail... the by products of coal are the most toxic and damaging of all forms of power. Untill then I feed trees. :mwink:
 

Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #109 on: March 24, 2010, 08:54:08 am »
And the motor itself? I know good electric motors last a long time, but what is its life expectancy?

I really don't know, haven't heard of one breaking yet. Yes, they should have a finite life as everything else, but there is really nothing to those motors if you compare the complexity with a petrol engine. I'll try to get you some detailed info.
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Offline the_wes

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #110 on: March 24, 2010, 08:55:35 am »
And the motor itself? I know good electric motors last a long time, but what is its life expectancy?

I really don't know, haven't heard of one breaking yet. Yes, they should have a finite life as everything else, but there is really nothing to those motors if you compare the complexity with a petrol engine. I'll try to get you some detailed info.

bertrand - is it yours, or did you get a demo? just curious...
 

Offline Avontier

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #111 on: March 24, 2010, 09:04:09 am »
How about a little comparison of costs for interest sake?

Anyone here with a 250 plastic? The info that we would need:
- List price new
- Average price for a service
- Service intervals (hours)

1) What does servicing a Zero-X entail?
2) Intervals?
3) Price of consumables?
4) Price of spares?

1) Technically you don't have to service a Zero. There are a few wearing parts though.
2) No intervals. No loss of warranty when you don't service with the dealership. Just replace the wearing parts when needed.
3,4) Wearing parts are brake pads, tires, chain and sprockets. Comparative to the same on other bikes.

No filters, oil or regular services means nice savings.

My 2008 300 2 stroke gets an oil change once a year or so. 750ml. No oil filters. Clean air filters every 10th ride (I have a few on standby). Just swapped the piston for a new one as a preventative measure, barrel and crank still good after 6000km of letting it do what it was built for. Never ever left me stranded. Maintenance cost/time is no issue at all.

The 4 strokes require a bit more. Oil change every 3-5 rides (1/2 oil filters, 1-1.5l oil), check the valves twice a year or so. Still not too bad. It's a good time to have a few cold ones with your buddies in any way.

 

Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #112 on: March 24, 2010, 09:08:01 am »
Done a bit of homework on this whole green eco friendly issue and a lot of it makes sense BUT some of the claims are just not true. One of them is on how "clean" electricity is compared to hydrocarbon and this is where they fail... the by products of coal are the most toxic and damaging of all forms of power. Untill then I feed trees. :mwink:

"Every day 120 000 metric tons of coal are transported to a plant at Secunda, near Johannesburg, where they are converted into 150 000 barrels of oil a day."

"Sasol's main plant in the province of Mpumalanga - the only commercial coal-to-liquid plant in the world - produces about 150 000 barrels of synthetic fuel a day and meets about 28% of South Africa's annual fuel needs."

"Liquefied coal emits twice as much carbon dioxide as burning oil, so countries looking to limit greenhouse gas emissions may have to find alternative carbon trading mechanisms to offset the damage caused by CTL technology."

Hmm... Aren't your bike running on 28% coal then...
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Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #113 on: March 24, 2010, 09:10:53 am »
And the motor itself? I know good electric motors last a long time, but what is its life expectancy?

I really don't know, haven't heard of one breaking yet. Yes, they should have a finite life as everything else, but there is really nothing to those motors if you compare the complexity with a petrol engine. I'll try to get you some detailed info.

bertrand - is it yours, or did you get a demo? just curious...

It is here for local testing and validation. You could call it a demo I suppose.
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Offline RobC

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2010, 09:17:12 am »
Done a bit of homework on this whole green eco friendly issue and a lot of it makes sense BUT some of the claims are just not true. One of them is on how "clean" electricity is compared to hydrocarbon and this is where they fail... the by products of coal are the most toxic and damaging of all forms of power. Untill then I feed trees. :mwink:

"Every day 120 000 metric tons of coal are transported to a plant at Secunda, near Johannesburg, where they are converted into 150 000 barrels of oil a day."

"Sasol's main plant in the province of Mpumalanga - the only commercial coal-to-liquid plant in the world - produces about 150 000 barrels of synthetic fuel a day and meets about 28% of South Africa's annual fuel needs."

"Liquefied coal emits twice as much carbon dioxide as burning oil, so countries looking to limit greenhouse gas emissions may have to find alternative carbon trading mechanisms to offset the damage caused by CTL technology."

Hmm... Aren't your bike running on 28% coal then...
Unfortunately... YES! :imaposer:
But that electric scoot is running 99% on coal... Koeberg is shut down and the Hydro from Gariep and the Drakensberg scheme is hardly 1%.
Plus all those trucks delivering the coal use diesel! The whole setup is pretty messed up here in SA in any case.
A few prius and elektro bikes is not going to make any significant impact but will cost the country more in foreign exchange due to their higher prices compared to ordinary vehicles.
Like we say at work... they are "nice to have's". :mwink:
 

Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #115 on: March 24, 2010, 09:28:55 am »
Done a bit of homework on this whole green eco friendly issue and a lot of it makes sense BUT some of the claims are just not true. One of them is on how "clean" electricity is compared to hydrocarbon and this is where they fail... the by products of coal are the most toxic and damaging of all forms of power. Untill then I feed trees. :mwink:

"Every day 120 000 metric tons of coal are transported to a plant at Secunda, near Johannesburg, where they are converted into 150 000 barrels of oil a day."

"Sasol's main plant in the province of Mpumalanga - the only commercial coal-to-liquid plant in the world - produces about 150 000 barrels of synthetic fuel a day and meets about 28% of South Africa's annual fuel needs."

"Liquefied coal emits twice as much carbon dioxide as burning oil, so countries looking to limit greenhouse gas emissions may have to find alternative carbon trading mechanisms to offset the damage caused by CTL technology."

Hmm... Aren't your bike running on 28% coal then...
Unfortunately... YES! :imaposer:
But that electric scoot is running 99% on coal... Koeberg is shut down and the Hydro from Gariep and the Drakensberg scheme is hardly 1%.
Plus all those trucks delivering the coal use diesel! The whole setup is pretty messed up here in SA in any case.
A few prius and elektro bikes is not going to make any significant impact but will cost the country more in foreign exchange due to their higher prices compared to ordinary vehicles.
Like we say at work... they are "nice to have's". :mwink:

Agreed, but if you take the efficiencies of electric vs petrol the 28% will be more actual coal than the 99%. Also the coal gets delivered over a shorter distance from source to power station. Crude oil comes from far far away and also gets delivered all over the country by trucks running on diesel.

Anyway, electric bikes have other advantages even if you don't take the "green" view. Practically 100% torque availability all the time, low maintenance, low weight and being able to ride where regular bikes aren't allowed was why I liked the idea.

It has to start somewhere. The Jule from optimal energy is another good project. Almost all manufacturers of bikes and cars have electric vehicles in different stages of development. I think we are seeing the 1st few drops, but in due time it will be raining nicely.     
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Offline growweblaar

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #116 on: March 24, 2010, 09:32:33 am »
Hey, bertrand, at +- 75kg, can you load that thing on a strong carrier on the back of a Citi Golf?
 

Offline the_wes

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #117 on: March 24, 2010, 09:35:03 am »
hey bertrand - send it to the cape when you're done  :thumleft:
 

Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #118 on: March 24, 2010, 10:15:49 am »
Hey, bertrand, at +- 75kg, can you load that thing on a strong carrier on the back of a Citi Golf?

I was thinking of of the same thing a while ago. My bakkie has a canopy and it is a pain to remove. That would be a very nice solution. Also the battery can be removed in seconds so the weight will be about 52kg's. My towbar spec plate says 90kg static load so it has to be possible.
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Offline RobC

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Re: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM
« Reply #119 on: March 24, 2010, 10:22:42 am »
Hey, bertrand, at +- 75kg, can you load that thing on a strong carrier on the back of a Citi Golf?

I was thinking of of the same thing a while ago. My bakkie has a canopy and it is a pain to remove. That would be a very nice solution. Also the battery can be removed in seconds so the weight will be about 52kg's. My towbar spec plate says 90kg static load so it has to be possible.
It does have some saving graces. :thumleft: