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Author Topic: Electric Bikes from ZERO & KTM  (Read 4445 times)

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Offline growweblaar

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2010, 01:27:42 pm »
Does it use solar power for recharging... if not it is worse than using petrol, converting coal into electricity and then charging the batteries is less efficient than using petrol.
Not even considering the impact of all the exotic materials used in the batteries and the energy needed to manufacture them.
Bunny Hugger bike imho... :peepwall:

This is an old (but valid) argument against electric vehicles. The counter is that it is at least possible to run the bike on green power, unlike internal combustion engines.

Remember, many developed countries offer green electricity (at a slight premium). When I lived in the UK I got all my domestic power from a service based on wind power.
 

Offline SlowPoke

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2010, 01:29:28 pm »
It's not the range that bothers me as much as the refueling stop.

Electric bike ride report:
So there we were in a small karoo town in the middle of nowhere. It was blistering hot day and while the rest of the chaps quickly filled their tanks with good old unleaded I found myself a cosy plug point to recharge. By the time lunch was over and the boys wanted to carry on I was only 60% charged. Ag what the hell the next town is only 50K's away and then a nice two hour rest to recharge again....
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Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2010, 01:30:36 pm »
Does it use solar power for recharging... if not it is worse than using petrol, converting coal into electricity and then charging the batteries is less efficient than using petrol.
Not even considering the impact of all the exotic materials used in the batteries and the energy needed to manufacture them.
Bunny Hugger bike imho... :peepwall:

Uhm, nope. You have it the wrong way round. Converting coal to electricity to battery is more efficient than using petrol!
Coal power stations are close to source and have high thermal efficiencies. Transporting electricity is much better cleaner and more efficient than transporting petrol to the end user.

 Overall system efficiencies are better for electric vehicles. Even if you charge from coal generated electricity only. Overall emissions are also lower. nice thing is you can charge from any source of electricity. Even solar if you wish...

Have a look here: http://www.electroauto.com/info/pollmyth.shtml
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Online I&horse

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2010, 01:46:29 pm »
Feint memory of Thermodynamics 101, Coal fired stations run at about 18% thermal efficiency, petrol engines can reach a maximum of 32%, diesel quite a bit higher, close to 40% if memory serves me right.
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cocky

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Re: Das Zero Emission Motorcycle von KTM.
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2010, 01:54:18 pm »
If it does not use hydrocarbon burning propulsion it is for bunny huggers... :deal: :peepwall:
Rob, agree 100%
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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Re: Das Zero Emission Motorcycle von KTM.
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2010, 01:57:21 pm »
Great news

I want a road legal version please
 

Offline LuckyStriker

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2010, 02:05:01 pm »
remember that fuel refineries use electricity, fuel stations use electricity, fuel delivery is made using fuel

simplify matters by cutting out the fuel industry by using electricity. Go one step further by supplementing your grid electricity by making some of your own
 

Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2010, 02:06:42 pm »
Feint memory of Thermodynamics 101, Coal fired stations run at about 18% thermal efficiency, petrol engines can reach a maximum of 32%, diesel quite a bit higher, close to 40% if memory serves me right.

Nope. Coal fired at about 40% thermal efficiency currently with some new plants going well over 40%. Petrol engines are at 18-20%, but the thermodynamic limit is at about 37%. Coal power plants are always going to be more efficient than petrol engines...
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Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2010, 02:11:58 pm »
remember that fuel refineries use electricity, fuel stations use electricity, fuel delivery is made using fuel

simplify matters by cutting out the fuel industry by using electricity. Go one step further by supplementing your grid electricity by making some of your own

Exactly. Also SA has no crude oil. So everything either starts with coal or you have to ship crude to SA. More emissions.

Also ignoring emissions look at costs. Electricity is way cheaper than petrol (even with our increases) and although in peak times we might not always have enough electricity there are heaps of extra available off peak. Just put the charger on a timer to utilize this extra capacity.

Running costs are another factor. No oil changes, spark plugs, fuel filters, air filters etc. These electric bikes have a chain, sprockets, tires and brake pads that are service items (normal bikes have all the same and plenty more). Ideal for commuting.
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Offline bertrand

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Re: Das Zero Emission Motorcycle von KTM.
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2010, 02:36:15 pm »
hhm, when the big boys start building them you know the future is green (or is that orange)...
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Offline Rolf

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Re: Das Zero Emission Motorcycle von KTM.
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2010, 03:19:48 pm »
I'd love one of those  :thumleft:
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Offline growweblaar

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2010, 04:23:37 pm »
Not to mention full torgue from 0 rpm :mwink:
 

Offline RobC

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2010, 06:30:11 pm »
One cannot ignore the waste and emissions coupled to coal in this scenario... oil is cleaner as it is less harmful to the environment, that is why I say these electric powered wheels are not green at all.
 

Offline Robski

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2010, 07:24:31 pm »
Looks like a toy...  :-\
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Offline whitedelight

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Re: Das Zero Emission Motorcycle von KTM.
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2010, 09:57:53 pm »
[



bunny hugger my ass!

That is gonna end in tears,that thing has nop sump guard!!!!!!!!!!! :o
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Offline Fishy

Re: Das Zero Emission Motorcycle von KTM.
« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2010, 10:50:41 pm »
And what is wrong with bunny hugging?

If you can get the same performance without fucking up the planet why the hell not?
Are you the same people still arguing about whether we cause global warming , what the hell does it matter if we cause it or not ?
Surely its in everyones interest to create cleaner energy ,if you have kids , i dont , dont you want leave them some part of this planet not screwed up by a generation of "lets burn and kill something"

MMM mmm Aparently  someone hit a nerve , i will shut up now 
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Offline Fishy

Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2010, 11:08:01 pm »
One cannot ignore the waste and emissions coupled to coal in this scenario...

Do they switch off the powerplant between 02h00 and 05h00 when most charging would happen? :eek7:

oil is cleaner as it is less harmful to the environment,

You must be fucking joking ::)

that is why I say these electric powered wheels are not green at all.

Theres always room for improvement , no one will force you to buy one

http://earth2tech.com/2010/02/15/terrapower-how-the-travelling-wave-nuclear-reactor-works/

When these guys sort out the details there may be the slightest chance that the human race might survive its own arrogance  
To Robc I do not wish to offend but shooting down clean energy for the sake of shooting is just not helpfull
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 11:18:10 pm by Fishy »
He with the most toys wins!
 

Offline RobC

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2010, 11:14:06 pm »
Imho the cleanest energy is wind then solar then Nuclear then gas powered followed by the rest. I base this on the total environmental impact from the moment the first sod is turned to build it until it gets decommissioned. At present the output percentages for the first 3 are very low when viewed on a worldwide scale. Ergo electric is not as clean as touted. Until it is I will voice my dissent. :deal:
 

Offline bertrand

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Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2010, 11:55:42 pm »
RobC: Even if you say that all the electricity comes from coal the emissions and waste will be about half of a petrol bike. Mainly due to the inefficiency of a petrol engine.

The heat and noise from a petrol bike is wasted energy and fuel is burned to create that...
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Offline Fishy

Re: Electric Dual Sport Bike from ZERO
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2010, 12:05:39 am »
I do understand where you are coming from,  I however get very exited about the possibilities of zero emissions , not something I feel we have a choice in pursuing

http://earth2tech.com/2010/02/15/terrapower-how-the-travelling-wave-nuclear-reactor-works/

What makes the Terra power move so interesting is the fact that we would be using all that nuclear waste that is building up in warehouses all over the world

The first Terra power plant should be on line in 10 years , truly clean energy , absolutely zero waste or emissions
That would make all the research into electric vehicles worthwhile , as for everyones normal gripe about charging times , power unit exchange robots are already being tested in more than one Scandinavian country - 90 second battery exchange

Hydrogen would be better and great but realistically that will probably only happen in another 50 + years
As a sailor i dream of wind , but 1000 7MW(the biggest one they have managed to build) turbines just for Cape Town is unlikely , and somedays you cant sail or kitesurf even in CapeTown
 


Try and buy a Tesla , 1year waiting list @ $90000, change is coming , I hope

He with the most toys wins!