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Author Topic: 1200 GS ADV FINAL DRIVE MAINTENACE AND CHECKS  (Read 8259 times)

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Offline michnus

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1200 GS ADV FINAL DRIVE MAINTENACE AND CHECKS
« on: October 23, 2009, 09:23:20 am »
Hopefully people with 10thumbs can use this thread to check on their FD's on a regular basis and not end up like others with a shortage of breath and panic when they ride it too near destruction just to get told it will cost R18k to be replaced.

First thing make sure you know how to check the play on your FD, I list it lower in this thread.
Secondly make sure you are always aware of vibrations on your footgeps and oil sweat on your final drive, it will help that you do not ride your FD too destruction.
Third, make sure to shop around with BMW dealers some do employ the most useless of skin and will tell you your finaldrive is busted but can in fact be repaired for a lot less.

My older 1200 Final drive pinion bearing felt a bit loose, bike is on 70000km, so I send it to Hochland Auto for the repair, cost was around R2500, the bearing itself was the most expensive part. Thing is, seems in SA at BMW, there's only one tool to repair these final drives, so it took some 6 weeks for the thing to get repaired.

The good news: It's not the monster money sucker as most people try to make it out. For one, changing your FD oil every 10000km IMO is not going to stop the FD bearings from failing, if they for some reason start to wear prematurely they are going to go with or without oil changes.  Yes, for sure there's no harm in changing the oil regularly. And there is no need the FD should leave you on your trip into darkest Africa.

How to change the FD oil
The Wilddog way

The Castrol Final Drive SAF XO oil BMW spec are very good oil and will last the life of the FD. Rather than waste oil, every 10000km take out the ABS sensor which is a magnetic unit and look for steel shavings, if there''s nothing there's no need to change the oil. I am not sure on the 08 models, but it might be that the drain plug also have a magnetic plug.

How to check for play:
Second thing is, it's only the bearings or a bearing that will break not the entire FD, with regular inspections you will pick it  On every service when the FD is down feel for play on the pinion as per picture.
Also feel for play with the wheel on and the bike on the centre stand, side ways, at 3oclock and 9 oclock, there must be less than 1 to 2mm play. Do these checks yourself, and never use a high pressure cleaner near the FD. There's only the dust seals and one bearing to cover for dirt.
I guarantee you BMW mechanics don't do this, other wise they would also have picked up on more flanges that's cracked!.



Before I fit it, thought it good to check on the other two bearings in the FD, then it's suppose to be good for another 70000km. They should last more than that. up in time.

The two bearings holding the crown wheel cost R700 and R600 at BMW, the one you can buy for R140 at bearings-shops and the shaft seals cost less than R30 for both. The needle bearing is a BMW specific and you have to get from them. The one bearing is a sealed roller bearing, hell knows why BMW used it, as no FD oil gets to it, mine was dry as the seal was worn out. In fact only 3 of the FD bearings are using FD oil for lubrication.

I am no mechanic but have bit of tools and was able to do the job myself. But I would rather have gave it to a guy like Adventurer or Hochland to overhaul for me, solely because of the time factor. And that I do not own a torque wrench that can go to 200NM settings as required, and the castle nut socket. The pinion bearings is better left to somebody that's got the tool to replace it with, it's not as easy as the other two main bearings.

I spoke to Adventurer and he said he can refurbish FD's for us and he will be building such a tool. IMO, any 1200 that's got over 100000km on the odo or close to that, get all the bearings replaced for peace of mind, it will cost around R3500 or R4000. You will never have to worry about the FD. Obviously BMW will charge more to refurbish the FD, just their parts alone are more expensive.
That's one set of chains and sprockets for a KTM's and they change it every 20000km.  :deal: :biggrin:

The arrows shows the bearings.



Some tools you would need:
Torx male socket set
Torque wrench small and medium size.
Bearing puller
Serious long nose pliers to remove serious cir-clip.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 09:17:45 am by michnus »
 

Offline Steady

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2009, 10:58:12 am »
myths  :biggrin:
 For one, changing your FD oil every 10000km IMO is not going to stop the FD bearings from failing, if they for some reason start to wear prematurely they are going to go with or without oil changes.  Yes, for sure there's no harm in changing the oil regularly. And there is no need the FD should leave you on your trip into darkest Africa.

I would agree that the oil change would probably not extend bearing life but it will allert you to a bearing failure and allow you a chance to change it before you get stuck out on the road.

Bearings run at different speeds and as such some are lubricated by oil, others by grease which might explain the seals.
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Offline Hondsekierie

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 11:07:34 am »
Thanks :thumleft:

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Offline Sláinte Mhaith

Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 11:11:47 am »
+1 (on the Thanks)

I presume the oil changes mainly increase the life of the ring and pinion gear.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 11:12:44 am by Sláinte Mhaith »
 

Offline michnus

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2009, 11:45:15 am »
myths  :biggrin:
 For one, changing your FD oil every 10000km IMO is not going to stop the FD bearings from failing, if they for some reason start to wear prematurely they are going to go with or without oil changes.  Yes, for sure there's no harm in changing the oil regularly. And there is no need the FD should leave you on your trip into darkest Africa.

I would agree that the oil change would probably not extend bearing life but it will allert you to a bearing failure and allow you a chance to change it before you get stuck out on the road.

Bearings run at different speeds and as such some are lubricated by oil, others by grease which might explain the seals.

The oil wont' tell you the bearings are failing, the metal shavings will tell you, still won't harm to change it in any case.  ;)

Slainte I guess so, my gears still looks like they are new, and the bike only had one oil change in it's 70000km life.

Offline Steady

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2009, 11:50:14 am »


The oil wont' tell you the bearings are failing, the metal shavings will tell you, still won't harm to change it in any case.  ;)

[/quote]

You'll need to change the oil to find the metal shavings in the oil will you not? 8)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 11:51:06 am by Steady »
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Offline michnus

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2009, 11:51:30 am »


The oil wont' tell you the bearings are failing, the metal shavings will tell you, still won't harm to change it in any case.  ;)


You'll need to change the oil to find the metal shavings in the oil will you not?
[/quote]

No, you can just take out the ABS sensor, it's magnetic and the shavings will be visible, or not, if all's still bakgat.  :)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 11:53:45 am by michnus »
 

Offline Steady

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 12:25:30 pm »


The oil wont' tell you the bearings are failing, the metal shavings will tell you, still won't harm to change it in any case.  ;)


You'll need to change the oil to find the metal shavings in the oil will you not?

No, you can just take out the ABS sensor, it's magnetic and the shavings will be visible, or not, if all's still bakgat.  :)
[/quote]

Which just goes to show, you'r never too old to learn something new.  :lamer:Now you know that I don't service my own bike.
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Offline Leo

Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 06:59:25 pm »
Thanks Michnus.

Jou post laat dit maklik lyk!

Dis net die tyds faktor wat my pla. Sal alles voor die tyd moet kry, sodat ek 'n vol naweek daaraan kan werk. Honey moet die maandag gereed wees vir aksie. Miskien oor die Des vanaksie, maar dan sal sy al 120K km's op hę. Hoop nie dit k@k voor dan nie  :mwink:
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Offline Gypsybaron

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2009, 08:51:51 pm »
The needle bearing is a BMW specific and you have to get from them. The one bearing is a sealed roller bearing, hell knows why BMW used it, as no FD oil gets to it, mine was dry as the seal was worn out. In fact only 3 of the FD bearings are using FD oil for lubrication.


They use it so it can fail and be sent back to them for repairs, otherwise they'll never make any money on services on FD's  :ricky:
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Offline 2 Stroke Dan

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2009, 09:15:44 pm »
Can't you clip out one of the bearing's seals so that FD oil can get to it, or is there another oilseal in the way?
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Offline michnus

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2009, 09:49:47 am »
It's a sealed roller bearing. I know zero about engineering, BMW must have had a good reason to use a sealed roller bearing for that application, imo, they have the oil in there already so why not use a open type needle or rooler bearing to lubricate than a sealed one.

Offline Colyn

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2009, 10:02:53 am »
Dankie vir die artikel.
Never underestimate the power of denial.
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Offline lecap

Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 12:39:04 am »
Any roller bearing will be able to run faster or carry more load if lubricated with oil compared to a grease packed bearing of the same type.

Sealed (against the gearbox oil) bearings are used in gearboxes for various reasons:
The BMW final drive gearbox is not pressure lubricated (like the gearboxes in cheap japanese bikes :evil6: ) and the oil is not circulated and filtered. The bearings, if sized correctly , last longer with grease packing as they are protected from metal filings originating from wearing gears and suspended in the oil. A roller or needle bearing is much more sensitive to oil contamination than the gears themselves.
The bearing has, for design reasons, to be fitted outside of the enclosed gearbox volume - for example to increase shaft length between bearings and reduce shear load or to reduce static load.

It is VERY important to check the bearings in the BMW final drive of the shaft driven bikes on a regular basis. A bearing failure will within relatively short time lead to pinion gears transforming into very expensive scrap metal.
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Offline jackD

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2009, 10:49:28 am »
Hi Michnus,

Being honest I still think the bearings should not go in 70 000 km, not on a final drive, I had a Moto-guzzy 850 le mans and on that bike I did 180 000 km without any drive problems, this was over 6 years.

I final drive an the average car lasts for at least 30000km so in my mind a bike that weighs 10% of a cars weight should never pack up. I have heard of a lot of GS's that need work done on the drive at around 80 to 110 000 km.

Good report man enjoyed the pictures and sorry for your breakdown.
 

Offline michnus

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2009, 11:41:23 am »
Yip, agree with you, most do last longer, mine must have been a dud, and it's a piece of metal, I won't keep it against them.  ;)

But imo to be proactive check the thing out at 100000km and in the same time replace the bearings, they are cheap enough to warrant such a service.  

Thanks for the info Lecap.  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 11:42:32 am by michnus »
 

Offline Adventurer

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2009, 01:37:33 pm »
Hi Michnus,

Being honest I still think the bearings should not go in 70 000 km, not on a final drive, I had a Moto-guzzy 850 le mans and on that bike I did 180 000 km without any drive problems, this was over 6 years.

I final drive an the average car lasts for at least 30000km so in my mind a bike that weighs 10% of a cars weight should never pack up. I have heard of a lot of GS's that need work done on the drive at around 80 to 110 000 km.

Good report man enjoyed the pictures and sorry for your breakdown.

Many shaft drive bikes have double sided swingarms, taking a lot of load off the type used by BMW, there are so many forces on the BMW single sided system, hence the lower life.
Car's diff's as well, far less forces because of the setup.
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Offline michnus

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2009, 04:09:23 pm »
It's true Adventurer, but having a look at it, from a idiots view, the thing seems quote well thought out and engineered. All of them that failed had a bearing that failed, mine on the pinion bearing which should not carry any load related to a double swing arm shaft.
Maybe they just used rubbish bearings.

Offline jackD

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2009, 08:08:55 am »
I see that on a single swing arm the forces are different, but with moden materials and engineering it should not have gone, I dont think it is a poor bearing but mabie due to keeping weight down the bearing is not big enough and should be a bit thicker.

I am a fan of shaft drives and even the cost of this repair is cheeper than chains and sprockets every 20 to 25 000km and you have that advantage of less atention.

 

Offline michnus

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Re: Busted the Final Drive....
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2009, 08:19:21 am »
I see that on a single swing arm the forces are different, but with moden materials and engineering it should not have gone, I dont think it is a poor bearing but mabie due to keeping weight down the bearing is not big enough and should be a bit thicker.

I am a fan of shaft drives and even the cost of this repair is cheeper than chains and sprockets every 20 to 25 000km and you have that advantage of less atention.



I have only a few bikes to use as sample in my experience, my other 1200 is on nearly the same kilo's and the FD is still good, and Metaljockey's bike's FD is on 80000km and still going strong....touch wood. Leo's bike is on 100000km, Excaliber's bike is over 100000km so in that equation having one that's gave up the ghost on one bearing I think it is safe to say, they can do the distance.

I think on this bike it was purely just a unlucky affair, things can break tough shit.   :)