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Offline Runner

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2009, 01:48:40 pm »
I have a stock size secondhand barrel.
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Offline rocket_1

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2009, 02:02:52 pm »
Hi Guys, I was the original owner of said busted DRZ.  I feel I need to interject here and add my 2 cents.  Roost me and cover me in dirt if you must.  I had that bike for 10000+ k's NO PROBLEMS.  Eventually the big end went south, and fragments damaged the cylinder.  I did all my homework, and research and decided to go with the 94.5mm Wiseco Big Bore Piston kit.  Now, what happens in the workshops behind the doors, and between suppliers and workshops I, am clueless.  

First let me say, that whether it was a 440 or a 400 or a 420, the bore size did not contribute to the piston sezing, I would look at the oil pump, and type of oil, and also the level of the oil.  
That aside.  I requested the Hi Comp 13.5:1 94.5mm Wiseco Piston.  92mm or 420cc Kit was never in my research or thoughts, trust me, I would not go halfway.  I never saw the piston. The workshop could have:
A - received the 92mm piston accidentally, and just sent it off for plating, without checking size etc, and just did the install.  
B - The company in Joburg, who did the rebore an re-plate, got a piston mix up somehwere.

The Bike ran stronger than ALL the other 440 Kitted DRZees, so I had no reason to doubt that it was not as specified.  I have no idea how the owner after me maintained it, but I changed oil and filter every 1000 kilometers, it was ridden to work once a week, and sunday rides with Cobie and the other DRZ owners.
I really feel bad, that it is only 420 Kit, even teh workshop, as a "gift" to me, being the first 440 SM in Cape Town, had the Graphics Kit made up staing 450, as we were under the impression it was a 440.  Either way, and honest mistake or oversight was made somewhere.  Cobus's 440 is still going very strong with almost identical mods, and he does way more mileage than I ever did.  The workshop owner happens to be a good friend of mine as well, and would not purposely mislead me, especially since the ENTIRE engine rebuild cost me R11 000!  No expense was spared, for the small difference in cash for the 440 and 420 Kit, I never even consdiered, or heard of the 420 kit.  All my research and homework was from information I got from Eddie off Thumpertalk.  I would not have gone half monty.  

Cobus, Rudolph has the stock 400 cylinder and piston still, perhaps he will sell it?

My sincerest apologies for the misinformation of the piston size.  If it's any consolation, if it is a 92mm and it was the strongest of all the modded DRZ's here in CT, you still have 2.5 mm to spare on the bore, and another 2-5 HP to gain from that machine. I sold this bike in March this year, with a very sore heart.  I will take it up with the workshop, and see if I can find any more info.  Even if it never would have come back to me, or anyone not known the history of the bike, I feel that I need to clear up any doubts of being misled here...

Lastly, whether it was 400; 420 or 440, would you still have bought it?  When bikes are modified, there is a little more risk of failure, no matter what bike it is. 

Once again, my sincerest apologies.  Hope you get it up and running soon.  
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 02:19:00 pm by rocket_1 »
 

Offline Bus

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2009, 02:07:00 pm »
I still doubt its a 420...

Must get piston dia...
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 02:09:05 pm by Bus »
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Offline rocket_1

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2009, 02:08:50 pm »
Boet, i dunno anymore.  I feel sick to my stomach about this.  I know that forged pistons are narrower at the skirts, but I seriously doubt that it would be 2.5mm narrower.  Engineers will know more about this.  
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 02:20:12 pm by rocket_1 »
 

Offline bonova

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2009, 02:25:32 pm »
Jan - sorry to hear about your misfortune bud.  :o
I say get it fixed tho - it's a cool bike, and with Lecap doing it - you can rest assured it will be hundereds and reliable once again.
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Offline Fugly

Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2009, 02:26:23 pm »
Boet, i dunno anymore.  I feel sick to my stomach about this.  I know that forged pistons are narrower at the skirts, but I seriously doubt that it would be 2.5mm narrower.  Engineers will know more about this.  

Lets see if Lecap is wrong >:D
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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2009, 02:26:54 pm »
I have a stock size secondhand barrel.

This barrel is in very good condition ! I also doubt the 420, have never heard of it or if it's even possible with spares avaliable.
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Offline Rolf

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2009, 02:37:16 pm »
Can I thow a dirty spanner in the works N[]vA and ask which oil you used last?
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Offline rocket_1

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2009, 02:37:25 pm »
I looked for the first time today on Wsieco's US Site, for 92mm, they do make a 92mm Piston for them.  Whehter they come into SA, is another story.  My research was all around the 94.5mm.  Not once was there a mention of a 92mm option.
 

Offline Freez

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2009, 02:46:46 pm »
Did anyone bother to check the stroke on this motor?

Since the big end went on the crank and it had to be repaired or replaced, maybe a stroker crank was fitted. Hotrods stroker crank adds 5mm more stroke.

That crank with a 92mm bore piston gives you a 449cc motor.

It might just be you guys are getting upset about nothing.

Bore and stroke determines the size, and there is other ways to make a 450cc, other than just adding a bigger piston.
 

Offline rocket_1

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2009, 02:48:49 pm »
Hi Freez, definitely not stroked, as that would require a cylinder spacer, and the crank was never replaced, when I had it built.
 

Offline Freez

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2009, 02:52:26 pm »
No, not true.

Hotrods make a stroker crank and custom 92mm piston that fits without spacers.

Personally, if I had to build a 450cc DRZ I would go the stroker crank and special piston route than boring the sleeve paper thin and run the 94mm piston.
 

Offline Freez

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2009, 02:57:13 pm »
Let me also add this.

Do not expect a 94.5mm piston and sleeve combo to last very long and give you the same mileage as a stock setup. The sleeve is 4.5mm thinner than stock, so it will flex more and cause much faster piston wear.

Depending how hard the motor is run, don't be surprises if that piston needs replacing every few thousand km/s.

On the race bikes, these things are replaced every 15 to 20 hours....

Also, do not expect a re-coated sleeve that was done locally to hold up like a stock unit will.

The coatings they use in SA is far softer than the stock coatings on the stock or imported coated cylinders.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 02:59:43 pm by Freez »
 

Offline rocket_1

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2009, 03:01:16 pm »
There is definitely no crank conversion on this particular bike.  reliability, is a moot point.  94.5mm has been done to other bikes, it works, and if it doesn't last then, that is how that goes.  NSC electroplaters, informed me that they had done more than 20 of the 94.5 mm boring out only mods, and have had no comebacks, hence, with my research under my belt I went forth.  I never expected it to last forever. 
 

Offline rocket_1

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2009, 03:02:59 pm »
Let me also add this.

Do not expect a 94.5mm piston and sleeve combo to last very long and give you the same mileage as a stock setup. The sleeve is 4.5mm thinner than stock, so it will flex more and cause much faster piston wear.

Depending how hard the motor is run, don't be surprises if that piston needs replacing every few thousand km/s.

On the race bikes, these things are replaced every 15 to 20 hours....

Also, do not expect a re-coated sleeve that was done locally to hold up like a stock unit will.

The coatings they use in SA is far softer than the stock coatings on the stock or imported coated cylinders.
Boring to 94.5mm, and as for longevity, a sleeve can also be inserted and then bored to 94.5mm.  NSC informed me that HEAT is the reason they fail.  If the bike does not overheat, then it should be fairly reliable.  Ask Cobus about his, his is only bored out.  Yes, my race bike lasted 70 hours before the piston cracked. 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 03:04:21 pm by rocket_1 »
 

Offline rocket_1

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2009, 03:18:12 pm »
PS the only reason I sold it was to buy a race bike...
 

Offline N[]vA

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2009, 03:24:13 pm »
Firstly Thanks Rocket_1 :D

Secondly, I have no clue what the frak you two are on about and honestly right now it doesnt actualy matter any more. the dmg is done be it a stroker kit/big bore/purple drank. it's busted =\

I was very happy witht he power  on the big as it was, thoguh it did need a tune up. now assuming it was a 420 then the 5% power diff going to 400 isnt an issue. The piston is 92mm  (Lecap plz can you confirm)

Even as a stock 400 I'd be happier with it than without it
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Offline rocket_1

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2009, 03:43:30 pm »
Cool, as long as you understand where I am from on this.  I feel a lot better now.  It really was a good bike, I was really sad to let her go, and I could not bare to use it for a race bike.  So I had to part with it.  I spent loads of time tuning and researching, and LOADS of cash to get it the way it was.  I have never been so attached to any bike :-)  I would seriously leave it as a 420 at the least.   When I first started modding it, I did the FCR, inlet cam, and Gasflow.  The difference was big...Then the Big end went, then once the "440" was installed the Difference was AWESOME, compared to the other mods The Yoshi pipe just made it look complete, and sounded mad!   I guess combined they just made it GOOD!  All the best getting him(That DRZ was a MAN) up and running again. 

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Offline Bus

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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2009, 03:47:50 pm »
Im still not convinced. There is no way it could pull the way it did if it was only 420. Well compared to mine, at least...

MAybe mine is also a 420...? :imaposer:

Possible steel sleeve installed after you sold it...?
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Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2009, 03:51:42 pm »
N[]va, my man, since you're having to overhaul this machine now anyway, go for the 440. so what if it's a little more expensive and so what if you need to wait a while, you will NOT enjoy the stock 400 after what you had. just maintain it well and it "should" last