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Offline badballie

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2010, 04:07:21 pm »
hahahahahhaa.....note ...it was said modern engines lol ......wont be trying it on my 1150 either one day lol
Cash, Gas or Ass............ no-one rides for free :-)

I did it because I can, I can because I want to and I want to because you said that I couldn't !!!!!!!

Offline Bus

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2010, 04:12:52 pm »
Maak soos Dr Phil sÍ: "Hou op om 'n do0s te wees..."

Offline isiTututu

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2017, 05:43:09 pm »
So, I've dug an old thread out of the archive in order to post these videos that echo my sentiments exactly:








 :pot:
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 06:02:18 pm by isiTututu »

Offline jvb

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2017, 08:09:16 am »
Ok then. I will take the bait.

I guess the psuedo intellectual pompous pommie po*#s in the videos has not figured out google yet.



http://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/superglue/

And when you lying in a ditch bleeding to death from being slashed open by a wire fence, Zap a Gap is a very good idea.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a25067/the-surprising-military-history-of-superglue/

« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 08:19:39 am by jvb »

Offline jvb

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2017, 08:30:35 am »
Back to the topic.

Google-    piston ring glazing

A very real problem.

Offline Andre E

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2017, 06:49:41 pm »
Back to the topic.

Google-    piston ring glazing

A very real problem.
Glazing is mostly caused by excessive idling.
Don't be kak, be lekker.
What is this life, if full of care,
we have no time to stand and stare.

Offline Pistonpete

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2017, 07:03:14 pm »
If it's going to break then let it break now. I'm all for a sound beating but with mechanical sympathy  ;)

Offline Andre E

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2017, 07:27:18 pm »
If it's going to break then let it break now. I'm all for a sound beating but with mechanical sympathy  ;)
Mechanical sympathy.
Now there's a phrase that I'm trying to teach my sons.
Don't be kak, be lekker.
What is this life, if full of care,
we have no time to stand and stare.

Offline jvb

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2017, 06:28:14 am »
How much idling would be excessive?

Offline jvb

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2017, 08:34:25 am »
Break-in or running in as it applies to modern engines is not rocket science and unfortunately
there is a staggering amount of pub expertise associated with it.
The loudest and most often repeated being the most B.S.

Any oil in the range of 30-40w even multigrage since our climate is relatively mild is good for break-in.

The only part of a properly built engine that needs breaking in is the piston ring/cylinder interface (and some cam components- if replaced/mixed up- which needs its own discussion)

If you have any metal on metal contact anywhere else or your bearing clearances are wrong, you f*#ked up and you are not running in but will be running-out (for more parts) shortly.

Bearings do not run dry when they stand and there is still a wedge of oil on which they run at start up, albeit a bit weaker without pressure.
So you do not need any magic 'magnetic' or other bs oil. If you draw the 2 circles with one resting on the other it will be clear.
Capilliary effect does the rest. Most stationary engines have no oil pump at all and are splash fed only, imagine.......

The only reason the rings need breaking in is an attempt to match the shape of the ring (not a perfect circle) to the bore which is also not
perfectly round even if bored/honed with a torque plate while circulating coolant at operating temperature through it.

The honing process deliberately creates peaks and valleys on the surface of the bore.
The peaks are to be the actual working surface and the valleys are the oil reservoirs.
The rings just squeegee the oil off a too smooth surface.

The rings also have machining grooves which combined with the sharp peaks of the honing marks create point loads
that are high enough to cut through the oil film and wear relatively rapidly.

This wear continues until the peaks have been worn down to a combined surface area that the oil film
can support, then it slows down to normal wear.

This is when the motor is run-in. Nothing else.

When you have a good understanding of a particular engines clearances and ring gaps etc it is even possible
to plateau hone the cylinders to get closer to the broken in condition up front.
 
All the marks you may see on bearings and gears etc. are just plain wear and tear.(running-out)

Glazing is basically the process whereby light loading creates enough friction to create heat and varnish at the ring/cylinder
interface but not enough to wear down the peaks. The varnish fills the 'oil reservoirs' increasing the area too soon which stalls
the wear process before the rings and cylinder have mated properly.

This is a product of insufficient cylinder pressure caused by cruising/runninglight throttle/load.

Idling does not create enough friction to cause varnish. Perhaps if idled for days?
Running at constant rpm or light throttle does cause problems pretty quickly.

So follow the Motoman (style)method and dump the oil and filters after.

Then put in some (appropriate for the application) decent quality oil and replace often.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 08:41:38 am by jvb »

Offline Andre E

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2017, 08:45:40 am »
Break-in or running in as it applies to modern engines is not rocket science and unfortunately
there is a staggering amount of pub expertise associated with it.
The loudest and most often repeated being the most B.S.

Any oil in the range of 30-40w even multigrage since our climate is relatively mild is good for break-in.

The only part of a properly built engine that needs breaking in is the piston ring/cylinder interface (and some cam components- if replaced/mixed up- which needs its own discussion)

If you have any metal on metal contact anywhere else or your bearing clearances are wrong, you f*#ked up and you are not running in but will be running-out (for more parts) shortly.

Bearings do not run dry when they stand and there is still a wedge of oil on which they run at start up, albeit a bit weaker without pressure.
So you do not need any magic 'magnetic' or other bs oil. If you draw the 2 circles with one resting on the other it will be clear.
Capilliary effect does the rest. Most stationary engines have no oil pump at all and are splash fed only, imagine.......

The only reason the rings need breaking in is an attempt to match the shape of the ring (not a perfect circle) to the bore which is also not
perfectly round even if bored/honed with a torque plate while circulating coolant at operating temperature through it.

The honing process deliberately creates peaks and valleys on the surface of the bore.
The peaks are to be the actual working surface and the valleys are the oil reservoirs.
The rings just squeegee the oil off a too smooth surface.

The rings also have machining grooves which combined with the sharp peaks of the honing marks create point loads
that are high enough to cut through the oil film and wear relatively rapidly.

This wear continues until the peaks have been worn down to a combined surface area that the oil film
can support, then it slows down to normal wear.

This is when the motor is run-in. Nothing else.

When you have a good understanding of a particular engines clearances and ring gaps etc it is even possible
to plateau hone the cylinders to get closer to the broken in condition up front.
 
All the marks you may see on bearings and gears etc. are just plain wear and tear.(running-out)

Glazing is basically the process whereby light loading creates enough friction to create heat and varnish at the ring/cylinder
interface but not enough to wear down the peaks. The varnish fills the 'oil reservoirs' increasing the area too soon which stalls
the wear process before the rings and cylinder have mated properly.

This is a product of insufficient cylinder pressure caused by cruising/runninglight throttle/load.

Idling does not create enough friction to cause varnish. Perhaps if idled for days?
Running at constant rpm or light throttle does cause problems pretty quickly.

So follow the Motoman (style)method and dump the oil and filters after.

Then put in some (appropriate for the application) decent quality oil and replace often.
This is a most accurate description.
My experience of excessive idling comes from large breakdown riggs that spend a few hours at a time idling while we winched accident vehicles up cliffs.
The results were plain to see, though I agree not applicable to bikes and most cars.
Don't be kak, be lekker.
What is this life, if full of care,
we have no time to stand and stare.

Offline Manic

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2017, 09:31:36 am »
Ek loop altyd my engines baie mooi in.
Die rev limiter wat die bike laat splatter, vertel my dis nou tyd om n gear te change.

Vir die res. Maak soos julle smaak, sissies julle man  :imaposer:   :imaposer:
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Offline Buddy

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2017, 11:45:24 am »

  As long as the exhaust has an Akropovic sticker on it, it'll be kief!
The Townkraaier of Kraaifontein

Offline Manic

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2017, 10:34:18 pm »

  As long as the exhaust has an Akropovic sticker on it, it'll be kief!

nee het n beter move gekry, ry sonder n silencer nou. Be loud and proud ek tune  :thumleft:
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Offline Beserker

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2017, 11:41:29 pm »
So, I've dug an old thread out of the archive in order to post these videos that echo my sentiments exactly:


So this guy goes on and fooking on and fooking on along the lines of: 

" What a load of fooking crap...I'll get to it later, naaa.. I'll make a fooking video"
and
" What a load of fooking crap...I'll get to it later, naaa.. I'll make a fooking video"
and
" What a load of fooking crap...I'll get to it later, naaa.. I'll make a fooking video"

Can't believe I wasted an inordinate amount of time watching both videos, waiting for some form of mechanical enlightenment.
Exactly what sentiments does it echo?

The only part of a properly built engine that needs breaking in is the piston ring/cylinder interface (and some cam components- if replaced/mixed up- which needs its own discussion)

@jvb...thanks, interesting read, fooking mechanical science, you will be making a fooking video then?  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 11:48:46 pm by Beserker »
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Offline 2StrokeDan

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2017, 10:11:16 am »
I have seen engines run-in on all types of methods, from MX'ers that uses the hard break-in method, to machines using the time-tested soft break-in method.

I will break-in my engines the gentle way, thank you.

Never labour/lug an engine, and only occasionally take the revs to near the redline, but mostly limited to 2/3rds. of the rev range.

Offline Roxtar

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2017, 03:04:00 pm »
I am no expert on any of this, but have you noticed in every factory build documentary how the bikes are taken directly from factory floor to test station and red-lined through all the gears immediately on a rolling road...... more than once... You think that new bike has never been red-lined when you buy it, think again lol....

Not saying this is a break-in, but makes you think.... ???
Long live the Underdog.........

Offline Manic

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2017, 03:22:13 pm »
The 1290SAR, the dash board light up like a Xmas tree, with all funny stuff flashing within the 1000km  >:D
MANIC & TEAM.

Offline Roxtar

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #78 on: July 19, 2017, 03:12:29 pm »
The 1290SAR, the dash board light up like a Xmas tree, with all funny stuff flashing within the 1000km  >:D

Thus must be your Traction/Wheelie Control blinking like crazy Manic......  :biggrin: :imaposer:.
Long live the Underdog.........

Offline Metalwolf

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Re: Hard break in method
« Reply #79 on: August 12, 2017, 10:49:31 pm »