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Author Topic: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine - UPDATE - SEPT 2010 !!!!  (Read 31946 times)

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Offline Kawasefi

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #60 on: May 05, 2010, 06:18:57 pm »
Excuse if I'm stupid, but aren't the ECU supposed to correct the fuel/air mixture electronically by taking into account things like air density, temperature, and/or any other info fed to it by various sensors? I always thought that was the advantage of having a modern ECU controlled FI system...
 

Offline Goose

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2010, 06:29:45 pm »
Excuse if I'm stupid, but aren't the ECU supposed to correct the fuel/air mixture electronically by taking into account things like air density, temperature, and/or any other info fed to it by various sensors? I always thought that was the advantage of having a modern ECU controlled FI system...


Indeed you are correct sir... however the parameters are preset by BMW so although the ECU works it's moer off to compensate, it can only do so as the parameters allow...
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Offline Goose

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2010, 07:01:54 pm »
Excuse if I'm stupid, but aren't the ECU supposed to correct the fuel/air mixture electronically by taking into account things like air density, temperature, and/or any other info fed to it by various sensors? I always thought that was the advantage of having a modern ECU controlled FI system...


Indeed you are correct sir... however the parameters are preset by BMW so although the ECU works it's moer off to compensate, it can only do so as the parameters allow...

... in other words, the ECU is set to ensure that the engine runs too lean regardless of the conditions that you throw at it. This simple setting appears to be the problem. The lean running is a requirement for the engine to be compliant with EU emissions regulations. Without this compliance, BMW wouldn't be allowed to sell any boxers in Europe.


 :thumleft:
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KobusL

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - Testing of bikes needed!!!
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2010, 09:14:41 pm »
as jy enigiets van vlieg weet... of iemand ken wat 'n loods is, vra maar oor die fuel/air issues... dis presies wat die probleem is teen 14.75:1 is dit ver te "lean"

Vlieg jy met jou BMW, of wat het vlieg met ry op die aarde uit te waai  ;D

Bikes and planes are very similar in one aspect - if the engine stops working suddenly mid-flight/ride - dan moer jy neer...
 

Offline Duracell

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - Testing of bikes needed!!!
« Reply #64 on: May 06, 2010, 08:24:11 am »
as jy enigiets van vlieg weet... of iemand ken wat 'n loods is, vra maar oor die fuel/air issues... dis presies wat die probleem is teen 14.75:1 is dit ver te "lean"

Vlieg jy met jou BMW, of wat het vlieg met ry op die aarde uit te waai  ;D

Bikes and planes are very similar in one aspect - if the engine stops working suddenly mid-flight/ride - dan moer jy neer...

Nou praat jy nie strooi nie ......  :thumleft:
My moto: "Assumption is the Mother of all F#@x-Ups" - moet net nie van DRANK vergeet nie - 2de grootste oorsaak............
 

Offline TheBear

Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2010, 11:12:02 am »
I am watching this thread with INTENSE interest...... 8)
I hope for all of your sakes that BMW come to this party.....
I tried to get my 2010 GSA to ping today, no joy, just carried on with no fuss. Obviously under low rev/high load it will ping, but hard acceleration, constant 5000/5500 rpm....no problem at all.
Would be good to get a 2010 twincam version onto the dyno as well, to compare....

So am I.  I may be in the market for 1200GS or a XT1200Z.  Like both bikes, but would hate to fork out R160k for a bike with this sort of problem.  By the way, your bike won't neccesarily ping up here.  It is usually a problem at sea level.  In fact, if yours pinged up here in Gauteng, you'd not be able to ride it at sea level.
#33 #BRADICAL!
 

Offline wrench

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - Testing of bikes needed!!!
« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2010, 03:36:12 pm »
will it be possible for you guys to get a GS911 and also check which software version is on each bike, apparently only a hand full of JHB BMW dealers are on 24hours link to BMWGA and update software when a bike gets serviced there. And apparently it's also possible they change Airflow ratio with these updates.

Might be possible why some ping and others not.

Just had Zoel from Hex here and he forced a gs 911 on me :thumleft: and set up new software, so I'll be able to check software versions.
Does anybody know what the latest software should be?
 

Offline Goose

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - Testing of bikes needed!!!
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2010, 03:56:18 pm »
will it be possible for you guys to get a GS911 and also check which software version is on each bike, apparently only a hand full of JHB BMW dealers are on 24hours link to BMWGA and update software when a bike gets serviced there. And apparently it's also possible they change Airflow ratio with these updates.

Might be possible why some ping and others not.

Just had Zoel from Hex here and he forced a gs 911 on me :thumleft: and set up new software, so I'll be able to check software versions.
Does anybody know what the latest software should be?


Will let you know after the 12th - we should have it on our bikes!  :thumleft:
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Offline Duracell

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2010, 12:34:52 pm »
Around here, up in the Northwest, 95 octane is not so readily available, only Shell V-Power 95 and at a premium price. I rode my GS until it shows 7km left on the range. I refilled it with Shell 95. Thus very little in-mixing happenend. I only drove around in town for almost 30km. Wil take it out on the road on Sunday for a Church Run to Ottosdal. 

No "ruk-en-sluk" happend so far again. I really tried my best by riding VERY slowly, power away from robots and all the usual ways where that happens. No ping sound also. Power also feels a bit better that what i was used to. Really hope that the 95 petrol could cure my problem.

I'll report on monday about my experience with the 5000rpm ghost in my GS.....  :mwink:

Enjoy your week-end.  :thumleft:
My moto: "Assumption is the Mother of all F#@x-Ups" - moet net nie van DRANK vergeet nie - 2de grootste oorsaak............
 

Offline 949BFN

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2010, 05:23:44 pm »
There is an issue with the engine running to lean at altitude under hot conditions. We had an example of this in Bloemfontein recently. Look at this thread: http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=42678.0. In the end Nelus and the owner collected lots of information confirming the issue. BMW started of the usual way, trying to blame from the size of the seat to the condition of the headlight (in a manner of speaking), but in the end they came to the party and paid for the spares. I’ll tell Nelus about this thread – maybe he can provide some more information, but the bottom line is that there cannot be any argument about it anymore – the boxer IS running to lean for our altitudes and temperatures.
 

Offline Goose

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2010, 05:40:26 pm »
Hey 949BFN that is really good news... we need that info as well.  :thumleft:


We have also (my mate & I ) that after all the diagnostics and testing's done, we will insist that BMW opens our engines to check for valve and piston damage. If they do not want to do it, we want written letters from them guaranteeing the engines..... as we are adamant that they have already suffered from the lean mixtures.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 05:45:09 pm by Goose »
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Offline The TRANSPORTER

Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2010, 06:22:26 pm »
....djy da innie kaap het mos n two year warranty bru...ry daai deng... :mwink: :peepwall: :biggrin: :biggrin:
I told her i was married, she said 'me too, who cares, lets ride!'
 

Offline Operator

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2010, 06:36:33 pm »
....djy da innie kaap het mos n two year warranty bru...ry daai deng... :mwink: :peepwall: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Goose don't want to ride the bike.............he wants to save the universe  :D

Just joking Goose............this is really a good exercise  :thumleft:
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 08:34:13 pm by Operator »
 

Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2010, 07:01:40 pm »
its clear that there is something wrong (its almost like the oil burning klrs - not each and everyone does it but so do it)

no to date bmw has not fixed it - addressed it - or even admitted it

but if you are unlucky enough to get the said ping-ping bike why not fit a power commander and be done!

yes you paid good money for it - and its bmw's responsibility - but lets face it - they will fix it if it breaks in the 2 year warranty

but if it does not break you sit with a bike that might be close to total failure when the warranty runs out ???

if you already spent 165k on a bike why not spend that extra 5k on the power commander to ensure it lasts - and run better ???

edit: correction a power commander V for the 2009 R1200GS is only $370
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 07:03:41 pm by the_BOBNOB »
 

Offline wrench

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2010, 08:23:50 pm »
Will the installation of the Power Commander not void the warranty?

yup
 

Offline Goose

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2010, 09:29:09 pm »
Bobnob - ffs why in hells name should I spend another R5k to fix a new bike that cost R165k......  ???  Surely that as bad as buying a new car sitting on the showroom floor and still having to go and buy farking wheels for it?

It's ok to run the bike and hope it blows while under warranty, but who takes responsibility for the issue and cost when it breaks in the middle of Africa, and who takes responsibility if the failure causes physical harm or even death to a person....?
If it fails inside warranty fine... but my luck it will fail a week outside the warranty..... and more importantly.... if I sell or trade it in on a new bike.... what about the poor twatwaffle that buys a bike that could fail when they've just spent their hard-earned moeny on it....

Nee ou maat - ownership & responsibility............ and I'm sorry but in this case we will insist that the designers of this faulty device either fix it .... or refunds the money spent on it 100%.
Legally - I've checked - I am 100% within my rights and as previously mentioned the new Consumer Law backs me totally - there's a design defect - they know about it and have not yet done anything about it............. so lets wait and see after we have all the correct info to pass to Germany... then see if the problem is resolved before jumping the gun.  :deal:
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Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2010, 09:35:50 pm »
Bobnob - ffs why in hells name should I spend another R5k to fix a new bike that cost R165k......  ???  Surely that as bad as buying a new car sitting on the showroom floor and still having to go and buy farking wheels for it?

It's ok to run the bike and hope it blows while under warranty, but who takes responsibility for the issue and cost when it breaks in the middle of Africa, and who takes responsibility if the failure causes physical harm or even death to a person....?
If it fails inside warranty fine... but my luck it will fail a week outside the warranty..... and more importantly.... if I sell or trade it in on a new bike.... what about the poor twatwaffle that buys a bike that could fail when they've just spent their hard-earned moeny on it....

Nee ou maat - ownership & responsibility............ and I'm sorry but in this case we will insist that the designers of this faulty device either fix it .... or refunds the money spent on it 100%.
Legally - I've checked - I am 100% within my rights and as previously mentioned the new Consumer Law backs me totally - there's a design defect - they know about it and have not yet done anything about it............. so lets wait and see after we have all the correct info to pass to Germany... then see if the problem is resolved before jumping the gun.  :deal:

i hear you

i agree with you

but and this is a big BUT - unless a problem is raised by the big markets EU, USA, etc it does not exist

i hope you succeed - but i think you will get the standard car industry response in SA

"your vehicle is operating within allowed tolerance - claim denied"

dont see the power commander as the fixing of the ping problem - see the power commander as bling and tuning - next step after market exhaust  :thumleft:
 

Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2010, 09:42:27 pm »
nah i can already hear them

"we have sold thousands of 1200's - first time we see this problem"

ostrich + sand + head = SOUTH AFRICA AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 09:43:03 pm by the_BOBNOB »
 

Offline Goose

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2010, 09:44:31 pm »
I feel for you..............   8)  thanks matey!
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Offline Goose

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2010, 09:46:00 pm »
I'm really hoping to get something positive out of all this.

Goodness knows, I've put a lot of my savings into the bike and Dave at Atlantic knows I've been broody since 2006 and could never afford the bike... I really do love my GSA - and don't think it's too much to ask that it just works correctly!
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