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Author Topic: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine - UPDATE - SEPT 2010 !!!!  (Read 31926 times)

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Offline 2 Stroke Dan

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2010, 09:53:07 pm »
Was wondering, if BMW europe needs to set the mixture so lean to make this model pass emission stds, would they not shoot themselves in the foot
making the same bike more eco-unfriendly for other markets? IOW, BMWSA would have to work directly against HQ emissions policy to satisfactorily
sort out BMW owners in S.A.?
As ek jy was sou ek nie so gelyk het nie.
 

Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2010, 09:59:23 pm »
Was wondering, if BMW europe needs to set the mixture so lean to make this model pass emission stds, would they not shoot themselves in the foot
making the same bike more eco-unfriendly for other markets? IOW, BMWSA would have to work directly against HQ emissions policy to satisfactorily
sort out BMW owners in S.A.?


exactly - i doubt bmw has maps that will fix this as those maps will not be EURO3 compliant

thats why i say power commander + dyno tune is the only way to ensure that your bike is 100%
 

Offline Vark

Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2010, 08:28:48 pm »
Was wondering, if BMW europe needs to set the mixture so lean to make this model pass emission stds, would they not shoot themselves in the foot
making the same bike more eco-unfriendly for other markets? IOW, BMWSA would have to work directly against HQ emissions policy to satisfactorily
sort out BMW owners in S.A.?


Okay, but then if this causes damage (which still needs to be proven), who fits the bill?
As much as I love my GSA, if there is concrete proof that damage could result, I would either fit the power commander (if that cures the problem - more proof required) or go to the dark side....
 

Offline Lighthouse Keeper

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2010, 02:17:53 pm »
Subscribed and watching outcomes as I have just bought a 1200GSA.  No problems with my 1200GS but it was sold at 36000 K's.  Definite "flat spot " at 4800rpm to 5100rpm.  Reported at every service and never resolved.
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Offline Goose

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Re: BMW R1200GS/GSA - Boxer Engine Issues - DYNO TESTING ARRANGED!!!
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2010, 05:08:02 pm »
Ok here's a bit of an update:

Both the GSA's were taken to Auto Atlantic this morning and we have just received them both back.

Diagnostics were done on the bikes, but no error logging found at all apparently.
Workshop staff have indicated that the INCIDENT has been logged and a new "Fault" recorded and logged with BMW Germany via JHB.

We were basically told that 14.1:1 is the ideal air/fuel ratio for these bikes... and both ours are incorrect.

Interestingly though, BMW apparently knows about the problem from the first couple a few years ago that blew the engines, but we were told that there has not been any complaints again and ours were the first 2 bikes to again have the problem....   :-[  Seems a bit odd though - unless you other riders don't here the pinging, or have never bother reporting it at the time the bikes are serviced.
Be that as it may, it's imperative according to Shane that we get results and put in a group claim to BMW who will then have to sit up and take notice.

Shan has his baby-shower on Saturday 22nd, but has indicated he'd make a turn at Superbike Solutions to come and see what we are trying to do. Kudo's to him for agreeing to use some of his spare time, but I have guaged that Shane too loves his bikes and the work that he does - therefore he's got a vested interest in helping to try and resolve the problems.  :thumleft:

So an appeal guys - those of you that have found their bikes to ping......... PLEASE tell us or log the fact with BMW............

SNAFU - your bike is also a December 2009 - matey, we need to check that one too - just to see whether it does indeed have the same issue. The more the merrier and better chance we have of a postive response and result from Germany.

See you guys on Saturday 22nd! PLEASE don't drop us................. and remember we'll all do a bit of a contribution towards some refreshments for the days' testing and get-together   :mwink:   :thumleft:
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Offline 949BFN

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BMW tell that to each and every customer, but the are lying. Many people are having the problem. I know af at least 3 GS's of which the engines blew here in Bloemfontein and I'm not really that well connected. All under the same conditions - hot day, constant spead of more or less 120km/h.  Hopeflle this thread will once and for all expose the lies.
 

Offline Sedate

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My 2008 GS has 27 odd thou on the clock. Can't say I've heard pinging but I'm not adverse to taking her for a spin SSW way to see what the hooplah's about. Do we need to add our name to some list or just pitch?
Closest thing you'll get to flying without leaving the ground
 

Offline Goose

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My 2008 GS has 27 odd thou on the clock. Can't say I've heard pinging but I'm not adverse to taking her for a spin SSW way to see what the hooplah's about. Do we need to add our name to some list or just pitch?

The more the merrier! The whole purpose of the excercise it to gather data with regard to the problem. If you haven't had pinging - your air/fuel mixture might well be correct or different - so we could benefit from mapping it!
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Offline Biza

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Goose thanks for this info, will altitude have a different effect on the motor (ping)?

Thinking of us Vaalies up here North, I ride a 08 GSA with 23000km on the clock, not really noticed any pingging thus far but then also I was not really listening.
Will follow this threat.
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Offline Goose

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Goose thanks for this info, will altitude have a different effect on the motor (ping)?

Thinking of us Vaalies up here North, I ride a 08 GSA with 23000km on the clock, not really noticed any pingging thus far but then also I was not really listening.
Will follow this threat.


same rules really apply to the bike as to flying. The higher the altitude the less dense the air and the less fuel you can add (leaning) to the mixture. Our air here at sea-level is much denser - but they still try use the same fuel quantity or ratio. So as in an Acetelene torch - too much oxy added to the mixture will eventually cause the torch to "flame-back" (dunno the right term) and extinguish the flame.
If you get pinging at altitude, then there's serious setting problems............. if not, it's probably 'cause the mixture's about right. Would be interesting to see what the altitude of BMW Motorrad in Germany is and compare it to different altitudes here.... obviously as that where the development and settings are first done.

The most important issue is to ensure that you tell your dealer if there's a problem - at each and every service and convenient time so that it's recorded on your jobcard records. Just to protect you for any future failure.

There's also normally specific conditions to "induce" pinging:
- Hot day
- Loaded bike
- Type of fuel

we have found that in 2nd gear at about 2500 rpm, she pings like mad riding up a hill to my house.  :-\
Cederberg erlier this year - 47deg C up the last climb before the Oasis, we though the bikes were going to blow their engines. Never heard such terrible noises... in fact today after fetching the bike from Auto Atlantic, I pulled away in 2nd gear after getting to a traffic light that turned green (so I was still rolling, not a dead stop) and I thought the bike was going to stall... the clunking noise the engine made was really bad.
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Offline the_BOBNOB

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P-O-W-E-R-C-O-M-M-A-N-D-E-R !
 

Offline the_BOBNOB

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P-O-W-E-R-C-O-M-M-A-N-D-E-R !

has no one on the forum ever fitted a power commander on a 1200gs ???

i cant believe people buy 165k bikes spend 12k+ easy on a akropovic + gps + + + + but no one has fitted a power commander ???
 

Offline Operator

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P-O-W-E-R-C-O-M-M-A-N-D-E-R !

has no one on the forum ever fitted a power commander on a 1200gs ???

i cant believe people buy 165k bikes spend 12k+ easy on a akropovic + gps + + + + but no one has fitted a power commander ???



Other people can see an Ackropvic and a gps, but you can't see a powercommder my dear Bobnob  ;)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 09:56:47 pm by Operator »
 

Offline the_BOBNOB

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P-O-W-E-R-C-O-M-M-A-N-D-E-R !

has no one on the forum ever fitted a power commander on a 1200gs ???

i cant believe people buy 165k bikes spend 12k+ easy on a akropovic + gps + + + + but no one has fitted a power commander ???


Other people can see an Ackropvic and a gps, but you can't see a powercommder my dear Bobnob  ;)


all i know is that heavy pinging (and heavy constant pinging) f*cks up the motor 6-luv

maybe not today - maybe not tomorrow  :P

but soon - you'll piston or bearing failures - and with some bad luck when the bike is outside of warranty

sure in a perfect world bmw will fix it - but lets say they come to the party how long before there will be a remedy cause bmw germany "does not even know this is a problem"

by the time this if fixed along the proper channels you could have done permanent damage to your bike - i dont know i would spend the $360 and know my $22000 bike is running 100%
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 10:17:49 pm by the_BOBNOB »
 

Offline Manic

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My bike het op so 5000rpm gevoel of hy so n sluk gee en dan trek hy sterk.
Ook op 1800rpm het hy n lelike mis gemaak, wat jou partykeer laat vrek het by die robot is jy presies op daai 1800rpm begin clutch los.

Ek het die CAT uitgehaal, en n slip on opgesit met n aftermarket filter. Probleem op n einde. Geen mis, geen sluk, geen ping, hy trek dat hy klap!!

Met die Full System dual Akra's trek hy nog beter. Hy tel baie vinniger revs op, throttle response is onmiddelik.

Ek gaan n Powercommander opsit, maar NET om baat te vind by die pyp en airfilter wat op is.
 

Offline Vark

My bike het op so 5000rpm gevoel of hy so n sluk gee en dan trek hy sterk.
Ook op 1800rpm het hy n lelike mis gemaak, wat jou partykeer laat vrek het by die robot is jy presies op daai 1800rpm begin clutch los.

Ek het die CAT uitgehaal, en n slip on opgesit met n aftermarket filter. Probleem op n einde. Geen mis, geen sluk, geen ping, hy trek dat hy klap!!

Met die Full System dual Akra's trek hy nog beter. Hy tel baie vinniger revs op, throttle response is onmiddelik.

Ek gaan n Powercommander opsit, maar NET om baat te vind by die pyp en airfilter wat op is.


I have a simiar experience, just Remus headers.
But to pay for a PowerCommander ... ? Not sure it's worth the money yet.
 

Offline Boxer

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My GSA ping al van dag 1 af :(....het nou 41000km/s op.......hoe kan ek vastel of die engin enige damage al opgedoen het!!...Hopelik sal die dyno testing volgende week iets positief wees....My warranty verval die einde van die maand :(
 

Offline Berm_Rooster

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Hey Goose and others.

As you may recall, I recently had a thread with similar content. I'd like to join you guys, but dont know if I qualify. AFAIK, the mill on the HP2 is very much the same as the GS/GSA, but with a different flywheel? Would you be interested in my attendance and subsequent results of your experiment?

{Note Well: I am not after a free Dyno-test. I'll be more than happy to pay full price.}
 

Offline Goose

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My GSA ping al van dag 1 af :(....het nou 41000km/s op.......hoe kan ek vastel of die engin enige damage al opgedoen het!!...Hopelik sal die dyno testing volgende week iets positief wees....My warranty verval die einde van die maand :(


Ek sal voorstel jy gaan vandag na jou dealer - vertel hulle jy't al lankal die probleme en book daai bike in vir diagnostics. Maak seker hulle maak 'n job kaart oop en dat die saak genoteer word ou maat. Hulle gaan vir jou lag as dit nie op rekord binne die waarborg periode geplaas was nie.

Ek kan jou wel se dat konstante "pinging" wel permanente skade aan die enjin aanrig.  As ons toetse nou klaar is, en al word die programeering uitgesort, gaan ons aandring dat die GSA's se enjins vir skade inspeksie oopgemaak moet word. Ons wag vir terugvoering van 'n kontak by die CSIR ook... dan sal ons sien wat gebeur.

Die ouens by BMW hier in Kaapstad is besorg oor die storie en mens kan sien dat hulle genuinely die probleem wil uitsorteer!

sterke maat!
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Offline Goose

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Hey Goose and others.

As you may recall, I recently had a thread with similar content. I'd like to join you guys, but dont know if I qualify. AFAIK, the mill on the HP2 is very much the same as the GS/GSA, but with a different flywheel? Would you be interested in my attendance and subsequent results of your experiment?

{Note Well: I am not after a free Dyno-test. I'll be more than happy to pay full price.}


Berm ou maat - selfde enjin...... selfde info wat ons soek. Jy soek natuurlik net 'n uitnodiging om weer innie Kaap te kom kuier ne!   :mwink:

Jy sal baie welkom wees!
"Life is a Waste of Time..... Time is a Waste of Life........ Get Wasted all the Time and have the Time of your Life"  ()