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Author Topic: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?  (Read 10258 times)

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Offline Metaljockey

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2010, 08:11:00 am »
Thanks MJ.  Not my market but I appreciate an objective assessment.

I am a Mech Eng.  That is a 1200 parallel twin.  It has 270° crank.  You say nothing about vibrations.  The 180° boxer motor is inherently brilliantly balanced.  Technically a 270° degree parallel twin is much better balanced than a normal 360° one.

What was the balance like?

Twin engine balance: http://www.xs650.org.au/smoothness.htm

It's all a bit above my head I'm afraid.

I can copy a blurb from the brochure;

"The appeal of the conventional twin-cylinder 360-degree crank engine is it's smooth performance, while a twin-cylinder 270-degree crank engine has the advantage of stronger traction. The Super Ten's new engine is one designed to provide the traction of a 270-degree crank while adding a new potential of smoothness approaching that of a 360-degree crank engine. This is made possible by a design that combines a high-level balance of YCC-T settings specially customized to the 270-degree crank and optimized design of the drive train with it's shaft drive designed for optimum damping characteristics."

YCC-T is an acronym for Yamaha Chip Controlled Throttle.


Offline Metaljockey

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2010, 08:15:54 am »

Just one question, what would your farkles be to get the bike Metaljockey-ready?

A new bashplate design,  ABS switch, power socket replacement, radiator protection, a proper exhaust (not essential).

Offline Metaljockey

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2010, 08:18:39 am »
Is it comfortable enough to do 600km+ gravel trips.
On the long gravel trips what do you think would fail,fall off or break.weak spots in general.
what type of warranty do Yami offer.
Thanks again and to Yamaha :thumleft:

Yes, it can do distance in comfort.

I saw nothing that did not look solidly attached.

They have a two year warrenty.


Offline Metaljockey

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #63 on: May 29, 2010, 08:21:05 am »
Thanks MJ!

Were there any other "independent" reviewers or just you?

Wouldn't mind one!

No, just me. The other okes were quite knowledgeable.

Offline Metaljockey

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #64 on: May 29, 2010, 08:24:21 am »
:brave: :hello2: :headbang: :hello2: :headbang: :hello2: :headbang: :hello2: :headbang

Very good report MJ.

One of those beauties is being fitted with a set of TKC’s tomorrow for a sand ride on Sunday. Yamaha, KTM and BMW together, should be fun.

I'd be very interested to know. I have a suspicion that the Super Ten will be more stable in sand than the GS.


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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2010, 08:54:18 am »
Congrat MJ, as usual, your writting is outstanding and your opinions fair and well presented. Nice looking bike.
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Offline buzzlightyear

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2010, 09:05:17 am »
One thing I saw at the launch at Droomers was the location of the rear brake fluid container, it looked slightly exposed directly in front of the rear wheel. This photo shows the pipe leading to it under the seat, unfortunately not quite clear.


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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2010, 09:58:46 am »
Thanks MJ!

Were there any other "independent" reviewers or just you?

Wouldn't mind one!

No, just me. The other okes were quite knowledgeable.

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Offline the_BOBNOB

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2010, 10:33:55 am »

The good news is that for the take-charge kind of guy, there is a way to work around this problem. What we did is to just unscrew the front wheel pick-up and cable tie it out of the way, like so.




The electronic management picks up that there is a problem in the ABS system, and disables it. So you have normal brakes that you can lock up at will. I spent the second day riding it this way.

The ABS and traction control uses the same pick-up though, so the traction control is also disabled, turning it into a proper bike that does what you tell it to. The negative is that you have three yellow warning lights on all the time.

I suspect that if you just lengthen the line running down to the pick up, and route it past your handlebar, you should be able to fit a basic switch, which will allow you to turn the ABS on and off at will. Which by the way, is the way that BMW should have done it too, cutting out the frustration of having to switch of the ABS every time the ignition is switched on.

great idea metaljockey

was thinking the same thing as i was reading your review

but i suspect you will only be able to switch it off this way - switching it on will require a stop - off- restart of the bike

dont think any bikes ecu will auto correct once the abs has been switched off - it will do the test again on the next start.

but yes a small toggle switch to switch if off is awesome idea  :thumleft:
 

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2010, 10:54:36 am »

The good news is that for the take-charge kind of guy, there is a way to work around this problem. What we did is to just unscrew the front wheel pick-up and cable tie it out of the way, like so.




The electronic management picks up that there is a problem in the ABS system, and disables it. So you have normal brakes that you can lock up at will. I spent the second day riding it this way.

The ABS and traction control uses the same pick-up though, so the traction control is also disabled, turning it into a proper bike that does what you tell it to. The negative is that you have three yellow warning lights on all the time.

I suspect that if you just lengthen the line running down to the pick up, and route it past your handlebar, you should be able to fit a basic switch, which will allow you to turn the ABS on and off at will. Which by the way, is the way that BMW should have done it too, cutting out the frustration of having to switch of the ABS every time the ignition is switched on.

great idea metaljockey

was thinking the same thing as i was reading your review

but i suspect you will only be able to switch it off this way - switching it on will require a stop - off- restart of the bike

dont think any bikes ecu will auto correct once the abs has been switched off - it will do the test again on the next start.

but yes a small toggle switch to switch if off is awesome idea  :thumleft:

just a thought that may probably be a stupid one but .... ....  could there be a legal reason why yamaha have not allowed for the abs to be switched off?  maybe someone could turn around and try and sue them after an accident, claiming that the abs didn't work?  maybe this has happened before and this is how yamaha have reacted?
 

Offline Kamanya

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2010, 11:16:33 am »
That rim is going to look interesting after a bit of mud or heavy sand.

Surely it's going to get packed in there?



I'd love to have a go on one out of curiosity. Thanks for the write up.
I wonder where that gravel road goes? And that, has usually made all the difference. (Apologies to Mr Frost)

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Offline DUSTRIDERS

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2010, 11:49:03 am »
Magtag MJ kannie dink aan n lekkerder manier om vanoggend te spandeer!! :thumleft:
Jy het regtig met n fyn oog na die fiets gekyk(rubberstrip om die tenk)
I think you have a new job on the way!! :mwink:
You know bikes and most of all you were honest. :thumleft:
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Offline michnus

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2010, 11:56:29 am »

The good news is that for the take-charge kind of guy, there is a way to work around this problem. What we did is to just unscrew the front wheel pick-up and cable tie it out of the way, like so.




The electronic management picks up that there is a problem in the ABS system, and disables it. So you have normal brakes that you can lock up at will. I spent the second day riding it this way.

The ABS and traction control uses the same pick-up though, so the traction control is also disabled, turning it into a proper bike that does what you tell it to. The negative is that you have three yellow warning lights on all the time.

I suspect that if you just lengthen the line running down to the pick up, and route it past your handlebar, you should be able to fit a basic switch, which will allow you to turn the ABS on and off at will. Which by the way, is the way that BMW should have done it too, cutting out the frustration of having to switch of the ABS every time the ignition is switched on.

great idea metaljockey

was thinking the same thing as i was reading your review

but i suspect you will only be able to switch it off this way - switching it on will require a stop - off- restart of the bike

dont think any bikes ecu will auto correct once the abs has been switched off - it will do the test again on the next start.

but yes a small toggle switch to switch if off is awesome idea  :thumleft:

just a thought that may probably be a stupid one but .... ....  could there be a legal reason why yamaha have not allowed for the abs to be switched off?  maybe someone could turn around and try and sue them after an accident, claiming that the abs didn't work?  maybe this has happened before and this is how yamaha have reacted?

Naaah to far fetch, get back china, keep it real.  :biggrin:

That's why there is a switch, you push the knoppie, you are in control, I doubt there is even one such a case against BMW. Hitting the button is ALL YOUR decision.  :lamer:

I think the switch actually plays in favour of the Manufacturer.
Now if a guy with ABS ON, in this case the the Ten, hit the brakes and over shoots a corner on dirt he can surely claim from Yamaha because he was not able to switch it off?
If such a scenario happened to BMW they can say "but was your ABS turned off on the gravel?" NO, well sorry, we state you must, when riding off road, in the manual.

Bobnob I did it with the Dakar once when the switch became sticky, it is actually so simple, the moment something goes wrong with the ABS it switches itself off, it disregards any other command. So by taking the sensor off, it thinks the system is broken and switch the ABS off. Presto, does not matter whether if you first stop, start or on the fly!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 11:59:53 am by michnus »
 

Offline Jacko

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2010, 12:57:14 pm »
Very well written. Respect.  :thumleft:

On a technical note... seeing that I also owned a 1200GS (2005/6 if I remember correctly) I also did some mental comparisons. I also rode my Super Ten back to Gauteng after the launch, giving me almost 1000km in the saddle - enough to get an idea.

Regarding the power - and it might sound anorakish, but it is in fact very pertinent - I don't know which year your GS is. I wonder because you/our GSs were quite less powerfull than the 2008 models, and they in turn less powerfull than the 2010 models with the dohc engines sourced from the HP2 Sport.

What compounded the issue was the fact that I could not go faster than 199km/h on the GPS. On a 2008 spec GS I've seen 205 on the GPS. But this was near the Cape, as opposed to us on the launch doing top-end runs at Mpumalanga altitudes. So for a proper comparison I'd have to compare a Super Ten with a 2010 GS (dohc) at the same altitude.

I guess what I'm trying to say (to the forum members out there) that one has to be very sure of your facts, because it is easy to feel/think/'know' something when one compares green apples with red apples. Conversely, one can get kind of confused and start to speak gibberish like I'm doing right now...  :biggrin:

The Super Ten is seriaaasly stable at high speeds though and its suspension is superior to that of a GS. But the vulnerability of the radiator on the left-hand side is a concern, as is some other plumbing around the crank case.

Is it a "GS Beater"? No. Just like the GS isn't a "Super Ten Beater".

They're remarkably similar in some ways - and quite different in others.

But it definitely is a solid alternative to the GS, especially with the shaft drive (no transmission 'clunking') and tubeless rims.

In the traffic in Pretoria okes checked it out a lot. Which isn't exactly the pinnacle of scientific study, I know. But hey, no-one looks at kak and ugly bikes, hey?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 12:59:25 pm by Jacko »
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Offline Metaljockey

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2010, 01:15:14 pm »
I don't know which year your GS is. I wonder because you/our GSs were quite less powerfull than the 2008 models, and they in turn less powerfull than the 2010 models with the dohc engines sourced from the HP2 Sport.

Good point, mine is a 2004.

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2010, 01:27:21 pm »
Thanks MJ

Very well written and objective report... Very informative...

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Offline chicco

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2010, 02:16:10 pm »
What is the possibility of the fan sucking in sand if you drop the bike on its side? will this damage the bike? It should not...
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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2010, 02:44:00 pm »
I managed to take one for a quick spin around the block (demo available at Centurion Yamaha until Monday).

Having never ridden a 1200 GS (only 1150, looong ago) - there isn't much that I can compare it to.  Having ridden LOTS of different other bikes though (single, parallel and V-twin, triples, inline and V-4s), I can only say that the power is encouraging.

I had it on the S setting (only rode it on tar) and it is VERY strong above 3000 rpm, but then seems to totally fall flat between 5500 and 6000.  I can't imagine that I might have switched it over to T by accident, but is this what you've found on the test?  I did also feel a little bit of torque lean (if I could call it that) from the shaft when hammering it in low gears - it doesn't have the counter-rotating crankshaft that the GS has.  This wasn't so bad as to be bothersome though.

It IS very well put together - again, I can't comment compared to a BMW, but to Japanese standards it is TOP notch.

It is HUGE, the tank is this wide expanse of metal between your legs, but I can second MJ on the weight issue, it really doesn't feel heavy at all.

I found wind protection to be a little lacking though, wind was tugging at my shoulders quite badly.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 02:44:40 pm by IDR »
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Offline DRAZIL

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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2010, 07:26:35 pm »
Is it comfortable enough to do 600km+ gravel trips.
On the long gravel trips what do you think would fail,fall off or break.weak spots in general.
what type of warranty do Yami offer.
Thanks again and to Yamaha :thumleft:

Yes, it can do distance in comfort.

I saw nothing that did not look solidly attached.

They have a two year warranty.



With a two year warranty I do believe BM will develop a headache.
thanks :thumleft:
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Re: Is the Super Ténéré really Super?
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2010, 08:31:12 pm »
Thanks for an excellent and "ergonomic" report MJ, VERY informative and easy to read. :thumleft: :thumleft:
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